Annealing - who knew

[Hipshoot]

When I walk by-----a lot of people ANNEAL!

 

[PatMiles]

When I walk by-----a lot of people ANNEAL!

GROAN!
Don't quit your day job!

 

[ELR LVR]

Yeah, annealing is too subjective without laboratory testing. Who can consistently read the exact flame temperature from one session to the next and then throw in the method of annealing….socket/drill, flame machine or induction machine?

Well,
All I can say is my annealing method is always the same
and my results are always good
I keep it simple
---
since I do the simplest possible thing
I am thinking many others are simply overcomplicating
or TRYING to overcomplicate
what should be a very simple metallurgical process
---
Like hardening steel
or annealing Manganese
I guess having studied metallurgy from being a Welder for years helped out
Things like dont get stainless too hot or the different elemental metals will dissassociate and
precipitate out individually , rendering it no longer stainless steel
Brass can do the same thing
---
I'll stick to what I'm doing and forgo the complicated electronics
Same as I dont need an electronic processor to even TIG weld lol
---
But Gadgets are cool, I respect that

 

[qldreloader]

My experience has been that brass that hadn't been fully "annealed" on a flame annealer still lasts longer than un-annealed brass before the necks split. I can only assume that partial annealing also partially removes work hardening. From that perspective it's worthwhile even if underdone.

 

[KMW 1954]

More evidence in a controlled environment:

And I put his data on a spreadsheet:

That's about on Par with what I found in my 223.

 

[ELR LVR]

My experience has been that brass that hadn't been fully "annealed" on a flame annealer still lasts longer than un-annealed brass before the necks split. I can only assume that partial annealing also partially removes work hardening. From that perspective it's worthwhile even if underdone.

I would agree
I have experimented with less time in the flame, at a lower temp
to try and achieve more "Springiness"
I would say doing as you suggest, helps with providing more "Springiness"
---
That would be something I think using an AMP annealer would benefit from

 

[JFrank]

It's not for everyone. I would say: don't compare annealed to unannealed cases. They are vastly different and not interchangeable. Once you start annealing, I would recommend doing that for every load cycle to keep things consistent.
I don't know how anyone can possibly get 25+ loads on a case without annealing. I know they do For me, after 10 loads- I had to struggle to get consistent shoulder bump, due to spring back and annealing fixed that and made sizing (even large magnum cases) seem like butter. No more fighting spring back! I did lose neck tension. The softer neck structure does not retain as high of a clamping force but I never seen any negative effects due to that.

Well I’m just a dumb Benchrest shooter and I’m not asking anyone to agree but from my perspective the best way to extend brass life is with a die that fits the chamber well and doesn’t stretch brass more than minimum required to chamber freely before and after ignition.
From my unscientific testing, annealing does indeed soften brass so for those cartridges that like plenty of bullet hold , annealing is going the wrong direction.
Bullet hold/ neck tension is one aspect of tuning that will show on the target far more than any sizing inconsistency.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Well I’m just a dumb Benchrest shooter and I’m not asking anyone to agree but from my perspective the best way to extend brass life is with a die that fits the chamber well and doesn’t stretch brass more than minimum required to chamber freely before and after ignition.

Since annealing is about resetting the hardness after the brass has been work hardened from going through a lot of movement, minimizing the amount of movement goes a long way to where annealing might be avoided all together. Custom chambers with custom sizing dies can definitely to that. Not a great many of us reloaders have that luxury.

From my unscientific testing, annealing does indeed soften brass so for those cartridges that like plenty of bullet hold , annealing is going the wrong direction.

Yeah . . . depending on how far one softens the brass.

Bullet hold/ neck tension is one aspect of tuning that will show on the target far more than any sizing inconsistency.

And more than just how soft the brass is effects "bullet hold/neck tension", like. . . neck wall interference, neck wall thickness and diameter/caliber of the neck. Huh?

My experience has been that brass that hadn't been fully "annealed" on a flame annealer still lasts longer than un-annealed brass before the necks split. I can only assume that partial annealing also partially removes work hardening. From that perspective it's worthwhile even if underdone.

First, I don't think anyone wants or should want to "fully anneal" brass as that means all ductility has been removed, which can present some big problems. But, I assume you really meant by "fully annealed" is that which is of the ideal softness/hardness. My observation over many years now is that very very few reloaders using a flame annealer are getting near the ideal that they think they are (that was me). And they've indeed seen some improvement in their brass life. Therefore I agree that that can be worthwhile. . . just not getting the full benefit of what annealing can bring to the table.

 

[hoz53]

I put a new scope on my 223 bolt gun and went to sight it in. No problem there, but the 5 shot groups were bad. They didn’t use to be bad. The problem wasn’t the rifle or the scope, or me. I decided to throw away that used Lapua brass, but was instead talked into annealing it. After the annealing, I loaded up some new Lapua cases, just to make sure my old trusty load was still good, and it was. Next up was the annealed brass, and lo and behold they shot into groups 1/2” to “3/4”. Prior to annealing, the groups were over twice that size.

Tomorrow is Starline brass day, finding the good load. H335, BR4 primers, and 65 gr Sierra GKs.

i used to anneal my accuracy rifle loads once in awhile but started annealing them every firing some time ago and i found it makes a differance. better ES

 

[L.Sherm]

People talk all this scientific stuff whats so scientific about a target?

 

[hoz53]

Since annealing is about resetting the hardness after the brass has been work hardened from going through a lot of movement, minimizing the amount of movement goes a long way to where annealing might be avoided all together. Custom chambers with custom sizing dies can definitely to that. Not a great many of us reloaders have that luxury.


Yeah . . . depending on how far one softens the brass.

And more than just how soft the brass is effects "bullet hold/neck tension", like. . . neck wall interference, neck wall thickness and diameter/caliber of the neck. Huh?



First, I don't think anyone wants or should want to "fully anneal" brass as that means all ductility has been removed, which can present some big problems. But, I assume you really meant by "fully annealed" is that which is of the ideal softness/hardness. My observation over many years now is that very very few reloaders using a flame annealer are getting near the ideal that they think they are (that was me). And they've indeed seen some improvement in their brass life. Therefore I agree that that can be worthwhile. . . just not getting the full benefit of what annealing can bring to the table.

i have almost talked myself into an AMP— something that not long ago i thought Id never want.

 

[Straightshooter1]

i have almost talked myself into an AMP— something that not long ago i thought Id never want.

If I had the $$$$$ for an AMP, I think I'd go with ADG's ARC Annealer instead, which gives the user more and easier control over the annealing process + the feeder and I think is uses some kind of ferrite flux concentrator (similar to what's been used in an Annie) instead of a coil for the magnetic field.