Annealing Made Perfect

[Grimstod]

What "annealing fluids" are you talking about? Tempilaq? That just indicates that it might have reached a certain temperature if you didn't hit it with the torch flame. It doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the annealed state of the metal. That would only be possible with either a microhardness tester or possibly a microscope and stain if you have the knowledge to read the grain structure. Another possibility would be to measure the yield strength by deforming the neck. Annealed brass yield strength is in the range of 19,000 psi where full hard is around 65,000 psi. To get it right it would need to be correlated to a microhardness test since the different neck diameters would affect the force required to deform the neck to a certain degree.

You are supose to put tempilaq on the in side of the case mouth. The flame never touches it. As the brass gets hot it changes the tempilaq.

 

[DennisH]

You are supose to put tempilaq on the in side of the case mouth. The flame never touches it. As the brass gets hot it changes the tempilaq.

That's the way I was taught. Put the Tempilaq on the "inside" of the neck. I have been doing it for years.

 

[Macropod]

I have been using one of these machines for a while. Nothing can touch it for annealing consistency. It lives up to its name.

Running 150 308 cases doesn't seem to bother it and can be achieved in around 30 minutes. I operate the machine in around 22-24 ℃ ambient. My long range vertical dispersion is the best I've achieved so far. Happy days.

 

[Webster]

How do you know your brass is annealed now? You think that by reaching a specific temperature or glow that the brass has been annealed but can it be verified? I wonder if we could use either the K&M or 21st Century arbor presses with force gages to check the force required to crush the neck .003" and correlate that to the degree of annealing.

It does't really need to be verified. If you use the Templac or glow method you have to realize you cannot heat to a much higher temp or anneal longer without ruining the brass. You are about maxed out already.

 

[RDavies]

I have been using one of these machines for a while. Nothing can touch it for annealing consistency. It lives up to its name.

Running 150 308 cases doesn't seem to bother it and can be achieved in around 30 minutes. I operate the machine in around 22-24 ℃ ambient. My long range vertical dispersion is the best I've achieved so far. Happy days.

Yesterday I did 500 cases. (100x 284 cases and 400x 7mm SAUM cases). I was able to punch them through pretty quickly, only stopping to transfer bunches of 100 or so to a different basket/towel to cool, then return to ammo holder. It never reached temperature cut out.
I use a K&M press with seater force measurement and since I have been using the AMP, it is now pretty much a waste of time to use the force measurement press. The seating force is just so consistent. Another side benefit is all cases resize back to identical measurements, no, slight differences in head space.
I would say it is the best money I ever spent on a new toy, but I went one better. I talked a friend into buying it and I use his.

 

[DumpHollow]

......

Finally, someone will have to prove to me that a tiny improvement in annealing performance (if it exists at all) will translate into a measurable reduction in group size at the target, where it counts. I seriously doubt if such proof will be presented to the shooting community any time soon.

......

I'm surprised that nobody has referenced "Modern Advancements In Long Range Shooting, Volume II, Chapter 6, Neck Tension". Brian does a limited but relatively controlled study of annealing. I found the book worth the $40 investment. My problem with this annealing practice has always been the lack of a data gathered in a controlled and scientific manner to support the practice. "Feel" in the reloading process is subjective. Brian also addresses the force measuring arbor press measurements. Brian does consider this recent study preliminary and intends to extend the testing in the future.
I don't discount annealing out of hand as not having some merit. But for me to invest time and money, I need hard data by a credible source. I do intend to use DJ's service as test case for a set of my match brass. With the frequency that I may need to have it done, it may be more cost effective to use his service.

 

[Joe R]

Has anyone seen this machine before? Looks like a pretty nice product.

Slower than other machines and definitely out of my budget, but I thought it was pretty cool.

Hi Guys,
I have the AMP and I've been using it since mid-December. Someone has stated that the AMP will do only 75 cases at the time, let me assure you that is not the case. I've done 300 Lapua Palma cases in one sitting without any machine issues. The problem is the user, handling one case at the time is a bit slow and after a while you get tired. But I've learned that with handloading fast and precise are mutually exclusive traits. So I'm OK with slow. YMMV.

Is it worth $1100? 995 for the machine + shell holders for different calibers + shipping and you there. The answer is: it depends on your disposable income. For some $1100 is a minor consideration for others it may be a real stretch.

I can honestly say that the AMP has not done anything to improve my ESs and SDs. My ESs were down in the 5-15 range when I used my Skip annealer and now they are still there, not better and not worse. The advantage of being able to anneal in the air conditioned house is worth it to me. The temp in my garage in the summertime goes up to 140 degrees. Even with a big fan it's no improvement, it's like standing in front of a blow dryer.

So if you're looking for a magic bullet that will make you a better shooter the AMP is not it. But it is worth it to me.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[Macropod]

Like anything in the precision shooting game, excellent equipment instills confidence in your ammo and rifle. It is hard to quantify the benefit of that confidence but it is surely a nice feeling. Not having to worry about how good your gear is allows you to concentrate on wind reading, hold, trigger release and follow through.

Any issues become apparent pretty quickly.

Eliminating WTF moments on paper is part of avoiding train wrecks. Once you get to that stage it is amazing how fluid the process becomes.

 

[Willie]

I have used a BenchSource annealer for years and though it was a great improvement, it certainly had it's drawbacks. When annealing multiple calibers, brands of brass, turn differences and unturned brass I spent a ton of time and Tempilac setting up the annealer for different scenarios. Plus I was loading brass one at a time into the carousel. I have had my AMP unit for several months and it was worth the extra money. I spent a lot of time talking to Alex @ AMP and others using the unit. Sold my BenchSource and never looked back. It is as fast as the BS unit, when you factor in the difference of set up time for both units. It takes me a couple of minutes to change calibers and the program. I cannot overstate how much work Alex has put into fine tuning his programs for brass brands and neck thickness variance. When you buy a unit, you get free testing of your own brass, even though the library is already extensive. I have not experienced any heating problems after running 200 pieces at a fast pace. Seating bullets in cases annealed on the AMP is a wet dream and targets reflect that. Graf is now the official US dealer, so when in stock, delivery should be faster. The unit has a USB port for updates. There is a data base of 27 pages of calibers & brass for standard and wildcat cartridges. Great customer service, to boot. Cheap? Nope, but what is in our sport?

 

[Dos XX]

Creedmoor Sports has these in stock now.