Annealing Made Perfect
- Thread starter Sheldon N
- Start date
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
It does get hot. They recommend only doing 50 at a time and when your annealing larger hotter cases they say to only do 25 at a time then let it cool.
Grimstod
Machinist, Designer, and Shooter.
Yes it looks like this is a good machine but its not going to be the high volume powerhouse that your is Ed. We just have to keep looking for a way to source parts and make yours a production reality.
Obviously some folks have a lot of money to dispose of. I wonder what the payback number is on savings in brass life, and what the improvement is on paper (targets) over other methods? I would need a lot more info before I "invested", but then again, I am not after the cool factor.
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A thousand bucks for a machine which not only requires handling each and every case individually, but also requires you to position it into a shell holder????.............. no thanks. For that price it should be fully automatic AND fry my breakfast eggs too. It looks nifty, but it ain't all that nifty. Plus, if you have to let it cool after 50 cases, it's fatally flawed as far as I'm concerned.
I'll stick with my DIY "Skip Design" with automatic feed. It's inexpensive, precise, adjustable, it runs all day without the requirement for cooling, and you just sit back and watch it run.
I'll stick with my DIY "Skip Design" with automatic feed. It's inexpensive, precise, adjustable, it runs all day without the requirement for cooling, and you just sit back and watch it run.
+1. Too many people do not think designs through, or not at all! Enough things are far too complicated & far too expensive! This machine definitely is in that category.
Agree... their testing for ideal annealing down to each cartridge type and brass manufacturer is the most impressive part. The actual annealing is just induction with manual case feeding. If they could make it an auto feeder with cooling capabilities to keep up with production level usage, and sell it at half the price... now that would be interesting.
for a crowd that requires precision in every thing, why not in annealing also?
do you really walk away from your flame annealers and let it run?
plus, this wouldn't lose its value in the secondary market
75 rounds max is good enough for one F class match
do you really walk away from your flame annealers and let it run?
plus, this wouldn't lose its value in the secondary market
75 rounds max is good enough for one F class match
I suppose it's OK for some folks to take their word for the annealing time for different cartridges, but for me that's like use the velocity figures in the Hornady reloading manual to calculate ballistic characteristics at 600 yards. I'd much prefer to use my own chronograph values.
With my annealing machine, I use a temperature indicating paint on several pieces of test brass to set the annealing time for different calibers, brands, and neck thickness. That's what they did and it's a good idea, but it isn't any different from what any careful re-loader would do with his own annealer whether it be a commercial unit or a DIY version. While their data might be absolutely right on, I would still want to check it with Templaq.
It's an impressive machine to be sure, but way too expensive considering the down side of handling each cartridge, using a shell holder to hold the case, and the overheat problem after only 50 rounds.
As for the idea that induction annealing produces smaller groups at the target, where things really count, when compared with precision annealing with a machine using a carefully monitored torch, I'm going to take a short nap while someone does the scientific testing to prove such a theory.
Holly crud! I was interested in it, but not at that price! Really like their testing and consistency data, but IS IT WORTH IT? They would have to show me better scores somehow to justify that price. Maybe longer brass life, but $995 is a lot of brass life. Other stuff seems to happen to my brass before the necks go.
This is also what I was wondering about. The idea that you can just click and choose brass based on manufacturer to me is a concern as that means they assume that all lots of brass is close enough that it does not make a difference, plus it also assumes that they are correct. Since the brass is hidden from you, you will not be able to proof to yourself that this is indeed correct with either the glow in the dark method or with Tempilaq. I mean how would you know based on the tools available to us?
How do you know your brass is annealed now? You think that by reaching a specific temperature or glow that the brass has been annealed but can it be verified? I wonder if we could use either the K&M or 21st Century arbor presses with force gages to check the force required to crush the neck .003" and correlate that to the degree of annealing.
It’s a reasonable question. The way I anneal I do look at the brass in the dark and look for the duration when it starts that dull glow. It is certainly NOT verified by me as I don’t have the tools to do it, neither does I would guess 99.99% of the people that anneals. BUT this is the method taught to me by the guy who builds and sells the BenchSource and so I trust that he knows what he is talking about. My brass also has not changed in work hardness as verified with the K&M seating force machine so that seems to verify that it is working.
Now with the new machine, how do you even know what it is doing? What I mean is with the torch method, you know you are heating it because it does change color. With this new machine you don’t have that feedback and you are really assuming it is working because the brass comes out heated looking. Well I can get that heating it to 400 degrees which is no annealing. What if the machine which is calibrated from the factory goes off calibration? Does it have an internal calibration that it does each time? With the torch, you don’t have that problem because you see the color. Not saying the machine does not do a perfect job or can even do it 100% of the time, just asking obvious questions that at least based on what we can see from the video does not answer these question.
I would think feedback is good.
You can still paint the inside of the neck with Templaq and check it.
One additional request I would like to pose to the builder is for him to verify what he is saying in terms of how this is significantly better than say the BenchSource etc. I come from the scientific world and there when you say one treatment works significantly better than another, you better have the goods to show it. What I mean specifically is you have to do a side-by-side study using both machines following proper methodology, by an unbiased tester who is blinded (i.e. don't know where the brass comes from) and at the end of the test, you will have to show that one machine works better because it gives a statistically significantly more even annealing, more precise annealing etc. Without that, it is really a claim and my question to anyone is would you pay $1k on a machine based on a claim?
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