Amount of shooters at competitions.

[CharlieNC]

We all get there. You cannot defeat the calender.

This me at 32, at 62, and 76. Heck, Sometimes I can’t even remember how I got here
View attachment 1480812View attachment 1480815

True! Four years ago I was still elk hunting, now I grunt and groan when getting up from shooting prone. It's like a switch goes off and every morning is a new adventure for a new ache\pain.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Time waits for no one.
21 to 77 years young. I got hocked on Rifle Shooting in the US Army I tuned 21 in those days.
I started in High Power in the 1970's. Worked thru Match Rifle, Small Bore, Palma, and F/Class.
Lots of years cash and equipment.

I am not so sure it would be possible staring in 2023?
I have given up Long Range F/Class this past year. I was shooting .284's. I was in my Man Cave and started thinking ( New for Me). The Money in those Rifles and the Cost per round of Ammo, time to and from Matches ?
I just came up with, your Nuts. It's not that I can't afford it,I can. It's the Time.
I will still Shoot Mid-Range with my less to shoot Dashers, closer to Home.

I do believe Cost is part of the Low Turn Out at Matches these Days, Lack of Components is not a help.

I hope this is not a slide to the Bottom.

 

[mgunderson]

I believe this is connected to sales, promotion, and marketing. Yes, many of the younger shooters are interested in prs. Lots of gadgets, bags and equipment. They pay alot to shoot and they have some of the best prize tables. They haven't seen a br or palma match on TV or see top shooters on social media. We have issues just getting results posted . We don't sell new products for anyone. Why should the companies care about us?

Not sure what the answer is. Its a hard sell to tell a new shooter they need to suck a few years and there isn't a way to buy better scores.

 

[Krogen]

Interestingly, by your own comments, someone wins. Sometimes, there is value in being outscored (beaten), especially by your children or those you have coached.
Many of us can appreciate that I believe. The issue is convincing the younger crowd that participating against yourself can be rewarding and it is OK if others get the trophy and not you as long as you did your best.

Good points! Yes, people do keep score. No prizes, no leader board etc. It's by definition, not a level playing field. I suggest that when kids outscore their Dads, they win bragging rights. More correctly, they win razzing rights. In fact everybody wins. The kids and their Dads relish the kids' successes. So yes, one could say there are "winners" but of note; there are no losers.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Been noticing that the long-range benchrest shoots have started promoting FOOD. Seems many shooters like that. Yet, I just got off the phone with one guy telling me he and two other older shooters are now refusing to go to shoots because of the huge upcharge for food being served at the shoots.

I heartily agree. As an older shooter, I eat breakfast and dinner. To be charged a huge amount and have to wait around to eat at shoots is a double turn-off. The expense, time involved and the unattractive eating schedule is now deterring some of us from participating.

Why the current fetish for eating at shoots?

25 years ago we had two large Two Gun Group Matches in The NBRSA Gulf Coast Region that were big on “the meal”
One as the “Crawfish” in Lafayette Louisiana where after the first day of shooting they had a huge Crawfish dinner. The Match was so well attended that you had to pre-register to get in. I think they were limited to 100 shooters. They also had a reception at the local hotel the Friday night before.

The second was “The Hole Enchilada” at Tomball Texas. The late Hank Faulkner was the match director, they had catered in Mexican food after the first day of shooting. They ran 4 relays with 25 benches.

“The Crawfish” died when Lafayette’s range was closed down due to encroachment. We dried to carry on the Crawfish at Tomball, but in the mid 2000’s it died for lack of attendance. We finally quit having Group Matches around 10 years ago because nobody would show up. the last one had 14 shooters.



At Tomball we started shooting Varmint for Score. We have two Registered Matches. We might get 30 shooters. We also have five Club Matches, where 20 to 30 will show.

So I doubt serving food would help. It would just be something else for the Club and Match Director to do.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Oh yeah, nearly always a few shooters there. But not many considering the number of members. Mostly us retired guys during the week.

A few shooters where?

 

[Albany Mountain]

This has never been an inexpensive sport, my NRL22 rifle and both of my centerfire rifles exceeded that cost. Still do not think it's the cost that keeps new folks away, we have a local monthly PRS type match with 56 shooters and it sells out every month. Every winter they offer a train up match where experienced match shooters work with squads all day to try to help them with any questions or tips to help them shoot higher scores and/or assist with equipment that could be helpful. I have shot f-class for many, many years and have never seen this type of outreach to bring in new shooters and that has nothing to do with cost.

How many of the PRS guys reload?? Just wondering.

 

[Acyr]

I believe this is connected to sales, promotion, and marketing. Yes, many of the younger shooters are interested in prs. Lots of gadgets, bags and equipment. They pay alot to shoot and they have some of the best prize tables. They haven't seen a br or palma match on TV or see top shooters on social media. We have issues just getting results posted . We don't sell new products for anyone. Why should the companies care about us?

Not sure what the answer is. Its a hard sell to tell a new shooter they need to suck a few years and there isn't a way to buy better scores.

This I believe is a major part of the problem. We are terrible at promoting our sport.
On the plus side, all those PRS shooters will get older, slow down and hopefully evolve into F Class or Benchrest shooters. IF we do our part to attract them and make them feel welcome.

 

[DirtySteve]

I run matches where only 5-10 folks show up. It only dies if you let it. Those lame Buffalo rifle matches. Most don’t even use black powder anymore.

 

[CaptainMal]

This I believe is a major part of the problem. We are terrible at promoting our sport.
On the plus side, all those PRS shooters will get older, slow down and hopefully evolve into F Class or Benchrest shooters. IF we do our part to attract them and make them feel welcome.

Wondering what attracts shooters.

I think Freedom Benchrest is considering a change in light gun weights to get F Class shooters in to use their guns in light gun. That just might attract F Class and be a good thing.

Immediately after hearing that I heard of people saying it punished them for keeping their light guns 17# or less. Now maybe they will be even less competitive. That might mean a loss of some shooters who are already coming to the matches. Reads like a "win/lose" situation.

Another thing that "gets" me is the penchant for scheduling matches on a Sunday. My take there is few shooters go to church any more. If it is a two-day match, the option to go to church on Saturday is gone. Then maybe the shooter is gone.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

How many of the PRS guys reload?? Just wondering.

I can tell you from experience about 95% of the guys I have squadded with hand load their ammo.

 

[miningshawn]

I have lurked this thread for a while.

I am a multi-discipline shooter - I will try anything once. Here are my OBSERVATIONS and OPINIONS...

1.) XTC - As a military vet I gravitated to this. I really liked the fact that I could use my AR in the same manner and format as my M16/M14. I am familiar with the positions, the distances, the range, and I could wrap my head around the scoring. What I was not familiar with was the absolute plethora of rules and the length that folks will go to to disqualify anyone with a better score. I also had too many modifications (that I gathered from actually using in the military???) that I was unwilling to remove to be able to compete. Easy to see why current service and recently separated vets left quickly.

2.) Silhouette - Who doesn't like interactive targets for score? I fricking love this except for two very major game-stoppers. I am NOT going to buy a period correct 50-123 Thumblicker with a scope that is pretty much useless for anything else and costs more than a NF. That being said, I am not going to waste my primers on a non-scoring event. I will still attend and pay in (even add some extra!) to tune in my hunting rifle before the season. These guys are great, I just can't afford the buy-in.

3.) SR Benchrest - Quite probably the biggest group of whiners, complainers, rule-mongers, and gear whores I have ever had the pleasure to be around. I fully and truly understand all of the above, but I can't be a participant. I know this will draw flame and ire - but I have yet to attend a SR Benchrest (over 20 of them, I really tried...) that wasn't a penis measuring event dominated by 5 or 6 guys that expected you to be just like them. All of the in/out rotation happens around this core group. New people come in and can't compete, they have salty mentors, and they leave. God freaking forbid you show up with anything over 6mm (unless it is a 30BR), and if it has a muzzle break it is better to just leave.

4.) LR Benchrest - Read SR Benchrest and reduce by 50%. There are better folks here, but the events are few and far between. There just isn't a ton of places with a 1000yd range set up. It is a lot more friendly for starter cartridges like 6.5CM, 308 and the like.

----- All of these ^^^^^^ practically REQUIRE an NRA membership for scoring. I refuse to send one thin dime to the NRA unless and until I know that it is not going into WLP and the Board's pockets. If I knew there was a way to be a member that monetarily supports only education and competition I would, but until that day arrives...... And these competitions take forever and a day. I don't like waiting an hour or more between strings for alibis and complaints, and I refuse to give an entire weekend to any single event. Maybe when I retire and the kids have moved out.

5.) PRS - I cannot imagine a friendlier and more open group of people to shoot with. I have shot PRS with an AR, a 30-06 hunting rifle, and a $3500 custom. None of that mattered except as conversation behind the line. There are a few ultra-focused individuals during competition, but I have yet to meet someone that wasn't willing to give tips and pointers after the match. It is, however, a gear-driven discipline where you sometimes are left wanting - the guy next to you having a tripod versus you stacking bags or contorting yourself into an odd firing position being an example. And it is pretty darn physical. But I can use the rifle I bought or built without complaints and snide comments.

6.) 3 Gun - I started this pretty early, but I was priced right out of the market. When I first began there was a fair chance that with practice and dedication you could score well. Now it seems to be a popularity contest. When Team Sig, Team Beretta, Team Vortex, and Team.... show up to every event and clean house because they have no budget and unlimited ammo and get to shoot every day, you find out that you are just there to support their budget. It is fun to watch, but not nearly as fun to be in competition with 20 people for 10th, 11th, 12th place and so on.

7.) F-Class - I would really like to try this, but I cannot drive 500 plus miles every weekend.

So there you have it. My take as a short-time (~10 years) participant in shooting sports. Take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I have lurked this thread for a while.

I am a multi-discipline shooter - I will try anything once. Here are my OBSERVATIONS and OPINIONS...

1.) XTC - As a military vet I gravitated to this. I really liked the fact that I could use my AR in the same manner and format as my M16/M14. I am familiar with the positions, the distances, the range, and I could wrap my head around the scoring. What I was not familiar with was the absolute plethora of rules and the length that folks will go to to disqualify anyone with a better score. I also had too many modifications (that I gathered from actually using in the military???) that I was unwilling to remove to be able to compete. Easy to see why current service and recently separated vets left quickly.

2.) Silhouette - Who doesn't like interactive targets for score? I fricking love this except for two very major game-stoppers. I am NOT going to buy a period correct 50-123 Thumblicker with a scope that is pretty much useless for anything else and costs more than a NF. That being said, I am not going to waste my primers on a non-scoring event. I will still attend and pay in (even add some extra!) to tune in my hunting rifle before the season. These guys are great, I just can't afford the buy-in.

3.) SR Benchrest - Quite probably the biggest group of whiners, complainers, rule-mongers, and gear whores I have ever had the pleasure to be around. I fully and truly understand all of the above, but I can't be a participant. I know this will draw flame and ire - but I have yet to attend a SR Benchrest (over 20 of them, I really tried...) that wasn't a penis measuring event dominated by 5 or 6 guys that expected you to be just like them. All of the in/out rotation happens around this core group. New people come in and can't compete, they have salty mentors, and they leave. God freaking forbid you show up with anything over 6mm (unless it is a 30BR), and if it has a muzzle break it is better to just leave.

4.) LR Benchrest - Read SR Benchrest and reduce by 50%. There are better folks here, but the events are few and far between. There just isn't a ton of places with a 1000yd range set up. It is a lot more friendly for starter cartridges like 6.5CM, 308 and the like.

----- All of these ^^^^^^ practically REQUIRE an NRA membership for scoring. I refuse to send one thin dime to the NRA unless and until I know that it is not going into WLP and the Board's pockets. If I knew there was a way to be a member that monetarily supports only education and competition I would, but until that day arrives...... And these competitions take forever and a day. I don't like waiting an hour or more between strings for alibis and complaints, and I refuse to give an entire weekend to any single event. Maybe when I retire and the kids have moved out.

5.) PRS - I cannot imagine a friendlier and more open group of people to shoot with. I have shot PRS with an AR, a 30-06 hunting rifle, and a $3500 custom. None of that mattered except as conversation behind the line. There are a few ultra-focused individuals during competition, but I have yet to meet someone that wasn't willing to give tips and pointers after the match. It is, however, a gear-driven discipline where you sometimes are left wanting - the guy next to you having a tripod versus you stacking bags or contorting yourself into an odd firing position being an example. And it is pretty darn physical. But I can use the rifle I bought or built without complaints and snide comments.

6.) 3 Gun - I started this pretty early, but I was priced right out of the market. When I first began there was a fair chance that with practice and dedication you could score well. Now it seems to be a popularity contest. When Team Sig, Team Beretta, Team Vortex, and Team.... show up to every event and clean house because they have no budget and unlimited ammo and get to shoot every day, you find out that you are just there to support their budget. It is fun to watch, but not nearly as fun to be in competition with 20 people for 10th, 11th, 12th place and so on.

7.) F-Class - I would really like to try this, but I cannot drive 500 plus miles every weekend.

So there you have it. My take as a short-time (~10 years) participant in shooting sports. Take it all with a grain of salt.

What is your age?

 

[rwj]

The one constant in life is change. The world we made is not the same one our parents created, nor will our children’s be the same as ours! I plan to do the things I love during my last orbits around the sun, god and health willing. I really don’t care how many others participate…

 

[miningshawn]

What is your age?

49

 

[jackieschmidt]

49

That’s a good age. Still young enough to dream, and not to old to have dreams come true.
There is a pretty big divide between us. My Wife and I have been married four years longer than you have been alive.

But I know exactly how you think, because I was 49 once.
You are perplexed about the way I think because you have never been 76.

 

[miningshawn]

That’s a good age. Still young enough to dream, and not to old to have dreams come true.
There is a pretty big divide between us. My Wife and I have been married four years longer than you have been alive.

But I know exactly how you think, because I was 49 once.
You are perplexed about the way I think because you have never been 76.

You must be a SR benchrest guy. As long as we are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions...

 

[jackieschmidt]

You must be a SR benchrest guy. As long as we are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions...

Yes I am. Started in the early 1990’s.

I’m not making an assumption. It is fact. I have the advantage because I have been 49, you have never been 76.
76 ain’t near as much fun as 49.

 

[Tim Singleton]

If cost was the reason, PRS and NRL matches that cost $250-300 to shoot wouldn't have 300 shooters and waiting lists to get in. They use $700 tripods for their range finder, $500 bipods, shoot factory ammo, scopes cost double to triple a common benchrest scope, fly to matches, stay three nights at hotels.
Short/mid range benchrest absolutely bores the younger guys to death. You can ask this question every week and no one will come up with an answer on what to do. It's the world we live in. These young guys make more money at 28-35 years old then we ever thought about making. They dont want to come listen to old men talk about their medical problems all day, or talk about how it used to be.

That's about as good a summation of things as I have heard in a while.

 

[JFrank]

Yes I am. Started in the early 1990’s.

I’m not making an assumption. It is fact. I have the advantage because I have been 49, you have never been 76.
76 ain’t near as much fun as 49.

I think the younger guys have the advantage in todays world.