Ammunition Testing

[TRSR8]

When you’re digging yourself into a hole, once you cannot see light of day any more, probably want to stop digging.

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

When you’re digging yourself into a hole, once you cannot see light of day any more, probably want to stop digging.

I’ll be sure to ask your permission next time I express my opinion.

 

[William Vogel]

I posted earlier about cleaning after extended firings (200+), I’ve since decided that after removing the carbon ring and seeing accuracy improvements that I’ll withdraw my earlier statement. I will shoot a match (60+) but then I clean. I concentrate on the first inch but I do send the patches on through. The Boretech Rimfire formula works really good.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I could've swore I seen a thread or post on here from an older guy outside the US, (maybe middle east or UAE) who has an indoor range and has done a plethora of 22 accuracy shooting at his own indoor range with some of the best 22s you could have. If someone knows who or what Im talking about, that'd be great to share, because it's a very informative thread.

I also could've swore he didn't clean his barrels much, if any at all either while doing said testing and had an absurd amount of rounds on his barrel, and was still shooting stupid small groups. Again, if I'm wrong, someone please educate me.

I haven't cleaned my CZ457/Bartlein in probably around 2K rounds and I can't tell any difference from the way it shoots now, to when I first got it.

I'm not a 22 BR shooter, just a weekend plinker, PRS, and LR steel shooter.

To each their own at the end of the day.

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

I could've swore I seen a thread or post on here from an older guy outside the US, (maybe middle east or UAE) who has an indoor range and has done a plethora of 22 accuracy shooting at his own indoor range with some of the best 22s you could have. If someone knows who or what Im talking about, that'd be great to share, because it's a very informative thread.

I also could've swore he didn't clean his barrels much, if any at all either while doing said testing and had an absurd amount of rounds on his barrel. Again, if I'm wrong, someone please educate me.

I haven't cleaned my CZ457/Bartlein in probably around 2K rounds and I can't tell any difference from the way it shoots now, to when I first got it.

I'm not a 22 BR shooter, just a weekend plinker, PRS, and LR steel shooter.

To each their own at the end of the day.

Lead Fever on YT has had similar results and did some interesting testing on bullets, lubes etc.

 

[John1945]

I'f you are seriously shooting BR with custom built rifles you will go downhill fast if you don't clean. If you're in just shooting at cans and rocks you'll be fine not cleaning. The proof. Is on the results.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

The OP's question was about testing. therefore, a few of us assumed he was looking for the best he could get out of his rifle.
There were a few blanket statements about not cleaning and how it didn't affect accuracy for them. but as RFBR shooters we know not cleaning will not cut it for what we are so used to seeing and seeking. in ARA UL we are squeezing for just a 0.001 difference to be 100 and not a 50. for us we are at the bottom of that rabbit hole, and we are with picks and shovels digging deeper looking for that 0.001 difference. is something wrong with us, probably why else do we buy multiple rifles, barrels and spend thousands on a case of ammo.
Yes, not everybody shoots RFBR for those who don't consider yourself somewhat fortunate.

Lee

 

[TRSR8]

I could've swore I seen a thread or post on here from an older guy outside the US, (maybe middle east or UAE) who has an indoor range and has done a plethora of 22 accuracy shooting at his own indoor range with some of the best 22s you could have. If someone knows who or what Im talking about, that'd be great to share, because it's a very informative thread.

I also could've swore he didn't clean his barrels much, if any at all either while doing said testing and had an absurd amount of rounds on his barrel, and was still shooting stupid small groups. Again, if I'm wrong, someone please educate me.

I haven't cleaned my CZ457/Bartlein in probably around 2K rounds and I can't tell any difference from the way it shoots now, to when I first got it.

I'm not a 22 BR shooter, just a weekend plinker, PRS, and LR steel shooter.

To each their own at the end of the day.

That would be Saeed from Dubai and his underground range.
Guy is an absolute shooting maniac and could possibly be the best African hunter alive but his extensive RF test is , ultimately, not a particularly valid test. All kinds of mixed ammo, zero proper maintenance, rifle not well suited for purpose, very poor group measurement, etc.,etc,.
Largely discussed across precision RF forums, Great friend of Todd's who initially posted it up.
Interesting reading but not a lot else.
As far as your discipline, as stated you're a plinker.....have fun plinking.
Also, as stated, this tends to be a "mixed use" forum but realize when folks weigh in on threads concerning "accuracy" and "testing" there will be opinions and there will be best
practices proven facts introduced by experienced shooters usually introduced, not for the "opinion" guys, who in 2026 still have "opinions" based on 1965, but more so for guys reading primarily interested in proper accuracy and/or testing, especially if you're spending $ on ammo above CCI and using a purpose built match barrel, even a pre fit.
Over 30 years of RF match shooting, starting with production guns, shooting every barrel under the sun, winning a few things here and there, also shooting with some of the worlds best, you tend to pick up useful info, some might call "facts".
AS always, yours to take or leave as you see fit.

 

[kyotekiller25]

That would be Saeed from Dubai and his underground range.
Guy is an absolute shooting maniac and could possibly be the best African hunter alive but his extensive RF test is , ultimately, not a particularly valid test. All kinds of mixed ammo, zero proper maintenance, rifle not well suited for purpose, very poor group measurement, etc.,etc,.
Largely discussed across precision RF forums, Great friend of Todd's who initially posted it up.
Interesting reading but not a lot else.
As far as your discipline, as stated you're a plinker.....have fun plinking.
Also, as stated, this tends to be a "mixed use" forum but realize when folks weigh in on threads concerning "accuracy" and "testing" there will be opinions and there will be pest practices proven facts introduced by experienced shooters usually introduce , not for the "opinion" guys, who in 2026 still have "opinions" based on 1965, but more so for guys reading primarily interested in proper accuracy and/or testing, especially if you're spending $ on ammo above CCI and using a purpose built match barrel, even a pre fit.
Over 30 years of RF match shooting, starting with production guns, shooting every barrel under the sun, winning a few things here and there, also shooting with some of the worlds best, you tend to pick up useful info, some might call "facts".
AS always, yours to take or leave as you see fit.

Thanks for the info on Saeed. I knew someone on here would know who I was talking about.

As far as you projecting your own opinions on myself as just a "plinker" which I did state, you also left out the PRS and LR steel shooting, which both are still accuracy minded...I am all about accuracy with whatever firearm and discipline I am shooting, albeit not to the extent of you crazy BR shooters...That shouldn't and still doesn't disregard my findings and experiences with my own rifle. I'm not going to clean every 50 rounds just to get an extra .001" of accuracy. It's simply not needed for what I do, nor do I have the rifle or ammo to even see that type of difference. 99% of rimfire shooters don't either. BR guys are a different breed, and while I can appreciate what you guys do, your practices are not practical for 99% of shooters as it's a totally different game.

At the end of the day, for what I do, I'm still happily shooting under dime size groups that are 1 big ragged hole at 50 yards from my rifle with a couple thousand rounds down the barrel. And while very good to me, is still subjective to very good for a BR shooter.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Thank you, non BR shooters like myself aren’t likely to clean a barrel when changing ammo types or after every box when testing multiple brands. The person who started this thread never indicated what he was trying to achieve and with what rifle, ammo or shooting discipline. This isn’t a BR only forum so to assume everyone should follow what the BR guys do isn’t reality.

He did state what he was looking for-
When testing .22 rimfire ammunition for accuracy is it:
This is why a few replied you need to clean. here is what I look for when testing or I should say when I could test. not sure if you're getting the same kind of results by not cleaning, but when someone says they are looking for accuracy I stand by what I said you do need to clean.
Here is the rest of the results from that testing session. I tested 10 lots; I ran a wet pellet and 3 dry after each lot was tested. far left group was the foulers 5 shots then testing began.

Lee

 

[1Merlin]

Just a thought.. Allowing for different semantics... Is the view sometimes different depending on where you are standing?

Perhaps there can actually be two different answers to a question with both answers being correct?

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

He did state what he was looking for-
When testing .22 rimfire ammunition for accuracy is it:
This is why a few replied you need to clean. here is what I look for when testing or I should say when I could test. not sure if you're getting the same kind of results by not cleaning, but when someone says they are looking for accuracy I stand by what I said you do need to clean.

Lee

I am definitely not getting those type of groups. Those are fantastic!

I’ll attach a pic of my setup, I’m betting yours is a bit more refined…

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Just a thought.. Allowing for different semantics... Is the view sometimes different depending on where you are standing?

Perhaps there can actually be two different answers to a question with both answers being correct?

When one thinks of accuracy it is opinion based as everyone has their own standards. some of the replies were based on the highest standards based on experience. I know 3 of the replies came from members who have proven records of shooting to highest standards.
based on how the OP's question was worded: for accuracy one would assume they were looking for the highest results.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I am definitely not getting those type of groups. Those are fantastic!

I’ll attach a pic of my setup, I’m betting yours is a bit more refined…

That would be a good set up for ARA factory class except you can't use an after-market barrel. also looking at the ammo on the bench, I wouldn't expect great results. but if you were to use higher grade of ammo, I bet you could get some really impressive groups.
But that is the common thing among all of us finding better ammo!

Lee

 

[buckeye68]

Here is the rest of the results from that testing session. I tested 10 lots; I ran a wet pellet and 3 dry after each lot was tested. far left group was the foulers 5 shots then testing began.

Lee

This is exactly how I test all of my ammo when trying to find a lot to buy.

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

That would be a good set up for ARA factory class except you can't use an after-market barrel. also looking at the ammo on the bench, I wouldn't expect great results. but if you were to use higher grade of ammo, I bet you could get some really impressive groups.
But that is the common thing among all of us finding better ammo!

Agree but I cringe at the cost of high end 22 ammo and my testing was centered around finding the best value that gave good results much like the guys on YT do. I have too many other shooting hobby’s to get too deep into this rabbit hole.

So in the BR community when do you notice accuracy drop off round count wise?

 

[TRSR8]

Agree but I cringe at the cost of high end 22 ammo and my testing was centered around finding the best value that gave good results much like the guys on YT do. I have too many other shooting hobby’s to get too deep into this rabbit hole.

So in the BR community when do you notice accuracy drop off round count wise?

You don’t notice it because almost everybody cleans every 1-2 targets. In RFBR you do not flirt with “accuracy drop off” especially during a match. You want all shooting with optimum barrel performance.
During a match, as in Lee’s example….takes less than 5 minutes.
Often, after a multi card match, when home, a more comprehensive clean, chamber, barrel, brush solvent, right down to bare metal.
Done properly, with a good barrel, rarely takes more than 4-5 foulers.
This, why, regardless of your interest/equipment, usually, best results come hand in hand with best practices……not complicated folks.

 

[doclu60]

If I could give 10 'Likes' to the above post, I would. I have pushed a couple of my match rifle barrels to see what they like. My primary 10.5 rifle will go two cards with no cleaning and still be hammering. During the last part of the third card, don't go there if you want to win. On my primary Sporter, I have never tested how many cards it will go because that class is hard enough to score well at without pushing it during a match just to see when it falls off. And believe me, with the guys I shoot with, gambling is not prudent. I could test it at practice to see, but that barrel is so good I keep the round count down to preserve it. It only gets shot for ammo testing and competition.

Point of all this is, with premium custom barrels, cleaning is absolutely necessary if wanting optimal accuracy from your setup. To the guy that keeps pushing back on this commentary, who owns a lapped premium barrel, which should take very minimal fouling before it comes back in after cleaning, he doesn't know what he is talking about. He appears to be shooting sub-standard ammo, which typically shoots dirtier as well. For all who have posted 'we aren't all BR shooters' and refuse to listen to tried and proven methods of attaining accuracy, oh well. A lot of what BR shooters do for better accuracy applies to non-custom rifles as well. Both CF and RF hardcore sanctioned BR has elevated the 'plinker' market way more than those pushback posters believe or understand.

Scott

 

[doclu60]

When testing .22 rimfire ammunition for accuracy is it:
1. Best to completely clean the barrel before shooting a different brand?

Refer to post #4

2. Acceptable to dry patch the barrel before changing brands?

I never ever push a dry anything down the bore of a gun when first starting the cleaning procedure. Especially a RF. RF primer leaves glass like debris in the barrel. They are very hard and abrasive. A wet first patch/pellet, IMO is the only way to go. A guy I used to shoot with always told me he ran a dry patch first. His explanation on this was 'you don't shampoo your carpet before you vacuum it do you?' Well, no, but a rifle bore isn't a carpet, is it?

3. Acceptable to shoot, let’s say, 10 rounds of the different ammunition?

Why? You state you are testing for accuracy. Again, refer to post #4

What if not changing brands, I.e., shooting different grades of Ely or Lapua? Thanks, Tom

This was answered already, but I'll add. Don't know if has changed, but the lower tiers of both Eley and Lapua used slightly different lube then their top tiers. The lube between the two tiers is close enough not to matter though. SK and Lapua, Eley and Wolf....GTG.

Scott