Yes, Alliant doesn't manufacture these. Bofors in Sweden does, who they are partners with. Rhinemetall Nitrochemie makes RL17, Bofors makes RL16. Similar speed but much different characteristics. RL16 is part of Bofors new, supposedly more temp stable line (along with RL23 and AR-Comp). The Nitrochemie line, (which includes RL26, 33 & 50) on the other hand, seems be focused more towards bulk density.
Alliant Reloder-16
- Thread starter dmoran
- Start date
Yes, Alliant doesn't manufacture these. Bofors in Sweden does, who they are partners with. Rhinemetall Nitrochemie makes RL17, Bofors makes RL16. Similar speed but much different characteristics. RL16 is part of Bofors new, supposedly more temp stable line (along with RL23 and AR-Comp). The Nitrochemie line, (which includes RL26, 33 & 50) on the other hand, seems be focused more towards bulk density.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
JasonT -
Not having tested it in a 308 myself, I have no input directly to it with the heavier 30-cal bullets. But if RL17 is working for you, then RL16 should be another good choice, with similarity to velocity/pressure.
As to the bulk and/or size, I myself like it when the case fill is near compressed or even slightly compressed at my optimum found charge levels. Loose powder columns can be subjected to position effects, which can inadvertently effect pressure/velocity consistency (ES and SD) and accuracy. I'm betting the case fill from RL16 will compliment many cartridges in this regard, especially medium to large size cartridges. With that all said, I myself look at the bulk size of RL16 as a positive !.!.!
Donovan
Not having tested it in a 308 myself, I have no input directly to it with the heavier 30-cal bullets. But if RL17 is working for you, then RL16 should be another good choice, with similarity to velocity/pressure.
As to the bulk and/or size, I myself like it when the case fill is near compressed or even slightly compressed at my optimum found charge levels. Loose powder columns can be subjected to position effects, which can inadvertently effect pressure/velocity consistency (ES and SD) and accuracy. I'm betting the case fill from RL16 will compliment many cartridges in this regard, especially medium to large size cartridges. With that all said, I myself look at the bulk size of RL16 as a positive !.!.!
Donovan
Donovan - Thank you very much for the thoughtful response and the testing in the first place!
I do agree with you about position effects - loading with Win760/H414 is weird because the case only looks half full! The RL17 does crush just a tiny bit as I seat the long 230gr Hybrids. It's a slightly satisfying crush though...
Do you think there is there such a thing as an overly compressed load? I've often wondered if it makes a difference. Ball powder is packed incredibly densely by gravity alone, and it lights OK. Why shouldn't stick powder?
I'll have to buy a pound of RL16 when it comes out and give it a shot (pun intended). Does it have a similar load weight to RL17? In my example, I use 44.6gr of RL17 in my 308 case - would I just start with RL16 10% lower than that (40gr ish) and work up?
Jason
I do agree with you about position effects - loading with Win760/H414 is weird because the case only looks half full! The RL17 does crush just a tiny bit as I seat the long 230gr Hybrids. It's a slightly satisfying crush though...
Do you think there is there such a thing as an overly compressed load? I've often wondered if it makes a difference. Ball powder is packed incredibly densely by gravity alone, and it lights OK. Why shouldn't stick powder?
I'll have to buy a pound of RL16 when it comes out and give it a shot (pun intended). Does it have a similar load weight to RL17? In my example, I use 44.6gr of RL17 in my 308 case - would I just start with RL16 10% lower than that (40gr ish) and work up?
Jason
Donovan,
It is really nice to see a report with concise data that is well thought out and presented well.
It is really nice to see a report with concise data that is well thought out and presented well.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Michael -
I use a Lyman 1200-DPS to dispense the charges to 1-tenth light, then trickle up on a Denver MX-123 hundredth scale. I'm not a "thrower" guy, and prefer to weigh them to the single kernel.
Donovan
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Jason -
Side effects that I personally don't like with heavily compressed loads is the volatility in seating depths that can come from a heavy crush.
As to load recommendations and starting points, sorry but I have to respectively decline that type input, and refer you to Alliant technical support for those type questions (www.alliantpowder.com).
Donovan
I use a Lyman 1200-DPS to dispense the charges to 1-tenth light, then trickle up on a Denver MX-123 hundredth scale. I'm not a "thrower" guy, and prefer to weigh them to the single kernel.
Donovan
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Jason -
Side effects that I personally don't like with heavily compressed loads is the volatility in seating depths that can come from a heavy crush.
As to load recommendations and starting points, sorry but I have to respectively decline that type input, and refer you to Alliant technical support for those type questions (www.alliantpowder.com).
Donovan
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Thanks Donovan!
Just so all of you know, I actually purchased a quickload update about 3 months ago and it includes RL16, but I didn't know that until yesterday evening when I checked. I ran the numbers and the actual weight for my usual load is within .1 to .2 grains. It's just a 110% fill instead of 102%. So I gather that the charges are similar in weight with a lower density (higher volume).
I suspect that those factors would make RL16 particularly useful in cases like the 30-06, 260 Rem, 243 win, 6.5 creed, and 284 win, where the bullet is relatively smaller compared to the case capacity. Maybe it'll take up some of the extra space while keeping the loads approx. equal?
We shall see when it comes out. I'll do some tests, take photos and post them with my review when I'm able to get a few pounds. I guess I'll have to build a new test mule...darn
Just so all of you know, I actually purchased a quickload update about 3 months ago and it includes RL16, but I didn't know that until yesterday evening when I checked. I ran the numbers and the actual weight for my usual load is within .1 to .2 grains. It's just a 110% fill instead of 102%. So I gather that the charges are similar in weight with a lower density (higher volume).
I suspect that those factors would make RL16 particularly useful in cases like the 30-06, 260 Rem, 243 win, 6.5 creed, and 284 win, where the bullet is relatively smaller compared to the case capacity. Maybe it'll take up some of the extra space while keeping the loads approx. equal?
We shall see when it comes out. I'll do some tests, take photos and post them with my review when I'm able to get a few pounds. I guess I'll have to build a new test mule...darn
dmoran
Donovan Moran
J-rod -
Haven't conducted out right sensitivity or comparison tests myself yet at this time, but was shown a comparison from Alliant. After reading your reply, I contacted my "go to guy" from Alliant and asked if I could share that comparison report here, which he gave me permission to do so. So here is that comparison:
Haven't conducted out right sensitivity or comparison tests myself yet at this time, but was shown a comparison from Alliant. After reading your reply, I contacted my "go to guy" from Alliant and asked if I could share that comparison report here, which he gave me permission to do so. So here is that comparison:
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After reading DM's report I looked at my 'usual suspects' for any hints of availability. Graf's came up with it showing in their product line-up; an e-mail response indicated it is 'backorder-able' so I did.
Have three pounds to my name once it starts showing up. Anxious to try it in my 284INCH project rifle; H4350's worked best so far of the seven propellants tested.
Have three pounds to my name once it starts showing up. Anxious to try it in my 284INCH project rifle; H4350's worked best so far of the seven propellants tested.
I've had mine on order from them for about 2 months now. I'm sure hoping it shows up soon.
Scott
As a 6.5 Creedmoor shooter, I've been looking forward to trying RL16 for a while now since H4350 can be tough to find. Your test results only make it more appealing. What catches my eye on the temperature sensitivity chart that you posted copared to H4350 is that not only does RL16 appear to be less temp sensitive than H4350 (which is already quite good in that department) but that it was 62 fps faster with slightly less peak pressure and a tighter SD in that test.
Looking forward to trying some to compare it to H4350 in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I was getting low on H4350 and considered trying IMR4451 but I've heard mixed results. Fortunately my H4350 backorder finally arrived last week... now it might take a while to burn through the 48# I have on hand, LOL!
I'll still pick up a few pounds of RL16 for testing. Looks like it may work very well for 105s in my 6 Norma Dasher that's still at the gunsmith.
Keep us updated...
Looking forward to trying some to compare it to H4350 in my 6.5 Creedmoor. I was getting low on H4350 and considered trying IMR4451 but I've heard mixed results. Fortunately my H4350 backorder finally arrived last week... now it might take a while to burn through the 48# I have on hand, LOL!
I'll still pick up a few pounds of RL16 for testing. Looks like it may work very well for 105s in my 6 Norma Dasher that's still at the gunsmith.
Keep us updated...
J-rod -
Haven't conducted out right sensitivity or comparison tests myself yet at this time, but was shown a comparison from Alliant. After reading your reply, I contacted my "go to guy" from Alliant and asked if I could share that comparison report here, which he gave me permission to do so. So here is that comparison:
I just found a few 1lbs of RL16 at one of the LGS today. Had to pick up a pound. Hoping this just might be the "unobtanium" I've been looking for; a powder that is terrific in my Dasher and also damned good in my 260AI.
How does it burn as far as fouling goes? Dirty, moderate, clean
Thanks,
Terry
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