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Alliant Powder Future Distribution Question

N-500 powders are SINGLE BASE POWDERS with a Nitroglycerine coating to give them higher energy


Might wanne update your website

Single-base smokeless powders derive their main source of energy from nitrocellulose. The energy released from double-base smokeless powders (such as the Vihtavuori N500 rifle powders) is derived from both nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine.

 
Might wanne update your website



We're really in the weeds here. Double base powder is just nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. Calling the 5 series double base really isn't that much of a stretch. Maybe to chemical engineers it is, but not to the rest of us.
 
I have been away at Nationals, and YouTube deprived, but Mark & Sam’s 4AW channel posted a new video about his cutting and turning over the large caliber barrels to comply with new high powered weapons law. He realizes it’s a step toward disarmament.

I feel bad for those citizens of Western Australia, and wonder how much longer the authorities will permit exportation of smokeless powder for consumers. Surely the inequity will be pointed out.

I don’t believe profitability to be much of a concern in components business models. Rather, it is a question of whether to supply them at all, and who the resources ought to be going to, if so.
 
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Might wanne update your website



The 2023 VV POWDER RELOADING GUIDE states that " nitroglycerine has been added to the traditional single stage powder to get better energy content.
I will check on this and get back to this string. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
 
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"Single-base smokeless powders derive their main source of energy from nitrocellulose. The energy released from double-base smokeless powders (such as the Vihtavuori N500 rifle powders) is derived from both nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine."

 
There's a bit of chemists' semantics in all this. Nitrochemie says on its website that all of its powders are 'single-based', yet some grades, as with the Viht N500s, contain nitroglycerin. (That includes the three Alliant grades manufactured by Nitrochemie.) I had a discussion with the UK distributor about this, and the answer was on these lines:

If you start with just nitrocellulose as the primary ingredient, it remains 'single-based' as far as industry chemists are concerned, no matter what you do at late stages to the part-finished nitrocellulose product during the production processes. As the name suggests, there is a single primary ingredient.

If nitroglycerin is mixed with nitrocellulose in the early 'dough' phases, it's a double-based product as there are now two primary ingredients. (Or triple-based with many artillery propellants etc with another explosive mixed in.)

Now, around 30 or more years ago, Nitrochemie developed a patented process to take the base nitrocellulose and infuse a carefully controlled amount of nitroglycerin into it from the outside. It later sold this technology to Vihtavuori which uses it in manufacturing its N500 series grades. AFAIK, no other manufacturer uses this method. Such products are still classed as single-based in the industry, but ascribed a new classification - 'High Energy'. Which of course is exactly what it used to say on Viht's N500 product labels in stonking great big letters. (Not anymore in the current rebrand interestingly, though.)

So Nitrochemie and Viht are technically correct to describe such products as 'single-based', but the handloader is more concerned about the existence or otherwise of nitroglycerin being conditioned to be wary of its effects on barrel life. (Actually, I believe we've now possibly worried over-much about this, and true single-based powders burn barrels out just as quickly when you use small-primer brass and run at very high pressures. Some single-based products are also very 'hot' indeed when you look at their combined heat of explosion values, H4895 and VarGet included which exceed those of many 'double-based / high-energy powders.)

The other thing to note is that nobody has introduced a new single-based handloading propellant that I can think of for many years now, with the possible exception of ultra slow-burning 50BMG types. All recent Viht introductions are N500s (N555, 565, 568); likewise all Alliants and IMRs (the ill-fated 'Endurons'). I'm probably wrong here, but the last single-based mainstream powder introduction I can think of was Hodgdon/ADI's IMR-8208 XBR back in 2010. Explosia's tubular Lovex S0-65 (Shooters World 'Long Rifle') was a few years prior to that in Europe, and that's about it. There must be a reason for this wholesale switch to using nitroglycerin - whether for environmental regulations or the customers demanding ever-higher performance, I don't know.
 
There's a bit of chemists' semantics in all this. Nitrochemie says on its website that all of its powders are 'single-based', yet some grades, as with the Viht N500s, contain nitroglycerin. (That includes the three Alliant grades manufactured by Nitrochemie.) I had a discussion with the UK distributor about this, and the answer was on these lines:

If you start with just nitrocellulose as the primary ingredient, it remains 'single-based' as far as industry chemists are concerned, no matter what you do at late stages to the part-finished nitrocellulose product during the production processes. As the name suggests, there is a single primary ingredient.

If nitroglycerin is mixed with nitrocellulose in the early 'dough' phases, it's a double-based product as there are now two primary ingredients. (Or triple-based with many artillery propellants etc with another explosive mixed in.)

Now, around 30 or more years ago, Nitrochemie developed a patented process to take the base nitrocellulose and infuse a carefully controlled amount of nitroglycerin into it from the outside. It later sold this technology to Vihtavuori which uses it in manufacturing its N500 series grades. AFAIK, no other manufacturer uses this method. Such products are still classed as single-based in the industry, but ascribed a new classification - 'High Energy'. Which of course is exactly what it used to say on Viht's N500 product labels in stonking great big letters. (Not anymore in the current rebrand interestingly, though.)

So Nitrochemie and Viht are technically correct to describe such products as 'single-based', but the handloader is more concerned about the existence or otherwise of nitroglycerin being conditioned to be wary of its effects on barrel life. (Actually, I believe we've now possibly worried over-much about this, and true single-based powders burn barrels out just as quickly when you use small-primer brass and run at very high pressures. Some single-based products are also very 'hot' indeed when you look at their combined heat of explosion values, H4895 and VarGet included which exceed those of many 'double-based / high-energy powders.)

The other thing to note is that nobody has introduced a new single-based handloading propellant that I can think of for many years now, with the possible exception of ultra slow-burning 50BMG types. All recent Viht introductions are N500s (N555, 565, 568); likewise all Alliants and IMRs (the ill-fated 'Endurons'). I'm probably wrong here, but the last single-based mainstream powder introduction I can think of was Hodgdon/ADI's IMR-8208 XBR back in 2010. Explosia's tubular Lovex S0-65 (Shooters World 'Long Rifle') was a few years prior to that in Europe, and that's about it. There must be a reason for this wholesale switch to using nitroglycerin - whether for environmental regulations or the customers demanding ever-higher performance, I don't know.
To all,
Here are the replies I received from VV POWDER in regard to production and proper classification of the N-500 series powders.
First PRODUCTION:
About our N500-powders. When you add nitroglycerine to single base powder, technically that powder will be double base powder.

But, N500-powder is not manufactured as double base powder, nitroglycerine will be added later in production using impregnation method.

CLASSIFICATION: N500-powders are semi double base powder…
 
To all,
Here are the replies I received from VV POWDER in regard to production and proper classification of the N-500 series powders.
First PRODUCTION:
About our N500-powders. When you add nitroglycerine to single base powder, technically that powder will be double base powder.

But, N500-powder is not manufactured as double base powder, nitroglycerine will be added later in production using impregnation method.

CLASSIFICATION: N500-powders are semi double base powder…
So, it is one of those "it depends on what the definition of the word, IS, is"
 
So, it is one of those "it depends on what the definition of the word, IS, is"
I think it more likely due to how and when the nitro is added to the powder. Its not applied directly to the cellulose. Its added / impregnated into the COATING on the powder. So its external. not internal.
 
The other thing to note is that nobody has introduced a new single-based handloading propellant that I can think of for many years now, with the possible exception of ultra slow-burning 50BMG types. All recent Viht introductions are N500s (N555, 565, 568); likewise all Alliants and IMRs (the ill-fated 'Endurons'). I'm probably wrong here, but the last single-based mainstream powder introduction I can think of was Hodgdon/ADI's IMR-8208 XBR back in 2010. Explosia's tubular Lovex S0-65 (Shooters World 'Long Rifle') was a few years prior to that in Europe, and that's about it. There must be a reason for this wholesale switch to using nitroglycerin - whether for environmental regulations or the customers demanding ever-higher performance, I don't know.
I believe it's primarily due to a combination of the deterrents used in single base powder being disfavored environmentally, as well as customer demand for higher performance. Not to mention that the single base market is already pretty saturated for variety (even if, at various times, it's very much not saturated for availability).
 
What!? Why, the...
:)
On a related note, just for kicks I stopped by our local Cabela's today. While I didn't study the inventory, just at a glance they had lots of powders and primers on the shelf. Pretty sure I even saw H4350 in 8 pounders too! I didn't buy anything as I'm good. The guy told me though they have NO 5.56 or 223 ammo.
interesting about the 556 and 223.
 
I have to say, the marginal buyer of lead, brass and powder is what makes a market tight or not. Ukraine, Finland, and other countries close to Putin are buying up stocks hand over fist. Not to mention the US military starting to lay up supplies of new 270(?) round. I bet Lapua and Norma machines are running all out or near max. The Czechs are making rounds, as fast as they can, I am sure. this same thing was happening at a much faster rate in pre WWI era. Part of the reason we went w -06 and 303 instead of 280(?) envisioned by Britain. It makes sense now, if you put it in current context.
 
At the price they are selling their powder they won't have to cut off the civilian market, it will cut them off.
Not to mention the price of benchrest 30 cal bullets in the 115 grain range hitting $515 plus shipping from some makers. Not a slam to any bullet maker, just a comment on price insanity. if it keeps up it will curtain some folks from shooting as much.
 
A local sporting goods store has Reloder 16 for $79.99 a pound. I want to try if in the worst way but, not at that price,
 
A local sporting goods store has Reloder 16 for $79.99 a pound. I want to try if in the worst way but, not at that price,

Ha! You should be in the UK. Edgar Brothers, our Hodgdon, Winchester and Alliant importer lists Alliant 'Reloder' grades with Recommended Retail Prices of £105 to £107 per pound. That's c.130-133 USD at the official exchange rate.

No gunshop would stock them at those prices given that's equivalent to over £200 / kg and Viht powders are priced at £105-130 / kg at the counter depending on the shop.

All academic anyway, as Alliant Re grades have been unavailable here for a couple of years now.
 

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