I see no one has mentioned the capacity to produce powder here and abroad. Unless someone knows that capacity is constrained by recent events, it is pure speculation to say Alliant or any other manufacturer is going to limit retail sales. This is just more fearmongering made possible by the age of the internet.
Alliant Powder Future Distribution Question
- Thread starter john 800
- Start date
Highpower-FClass
Gold $$ Contributor
This is the internet version of 'A friend of a friend told me'...
Good grief
So many times we really are our own worst enemy
It’s only gossip until the video comes out.
I kinda like hearing the backstory(s) explaining things that effect us. I had no idea about what companies are doing what, but all it takes is a carpenter with a glossy stocked Remington to take an educated guess Europe is where our missing components are going. At least we aren’t selling the dairy farm in the middle of a milk shortage - oh wait - we sold the farm to an Eastern European company? Milk will get cheaper now right?
I kinda like hearing the backstory(s) explaining things that effect us. I had no idea about what companies are doing what, but all it takes is a carpenter with a glossy stocked Remington to take an educated guess Europe is where our missing components are going. At least we aren’t selling the dairy farm in the middle of a milk shortage - oh wait - we sold the farm to an Eastern European company? Milk will get cheaper now right?
EHHHH ??? !!
'Our' (ie US) components are going to Europe? You, my friend are 180-degrees out. If you read my earlier post you'll see that all Alliant rifle grades bar the ball Power Pros are made in Europe - because YOU (ie the US) don't make them anymore and have to buy elsewhere. Europe has stopped supplying YOU as they have higher priorities right now. For your interest, here is where 'your' powders come from:
Accurate: Extruded from Canada; ball type USA
Alliant: Sweden and Switzerland, plus minority (ball only) USA
Hodgdon: extruded Australia; 'spherical' USA
IMR: Canada
Ramshot: Belgium (ball types)
Shooters World: Czech Republic (extruded and ball types)
Vihtavuori: Finland
Winchester: USA (ball types)
There is a single propellant plant in the USA making canister powders for the handloading market - General Dynamics owned St. Marks Powder Company in Florida. Bar Ramshot, all of the above US ball-types come from that single large plant. It also supplies c.95% of the powder loaded in US military smallarms ammunition - a customer with about 50 times the priority of us handloaders.
So, in your shoes, I'd give thanks / prayers to two things:
1) the US doesn't get into any sort of shooting war, in which case 'your' ONE factory will stop supplying you.
2) Offer up thanks that ADI in Australia is still supplying extruded grades to Hodgdon and that Vihatavuori in Finland is also still supplying the US market. In fact, Viht has doubled output over the last couple of years to meet demand.
I'd also offer up sincere thanks that Nammo Oy stepped in at the last minute c. 10 years ago when Vihtavuori's then owner decided there was excess propellant manufacturing after the end of the US led Afgan / Iraq military missions and was in the process of shutting it down. A fat lot YOU and the idiots who govern Europe these days cared at the time!
What!? Why, the...
On a related note, just for kicks I stopped by our local Cabela's today. While I didn't study the inventory, just at a glance they had lots of powders and primers on the shelf. Pretty sure I even saw H4350 in 8 pounders too! I didn't buy anything as I'm good. The guy told me though they have NO 5.56 or 223 ammo.
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You are just agreeing with what I said. Components that would normally be in our hands are not, and they are in Europe. It does sound entitled, but American shooters often feel entitled because we are by far the largest market. Our suppliers blow smoke up our hineys and blame it on a general state of demand because of so many new American shooters.
I do disagree with you on us not being in a shooting war - Ukraine would have been speaking only Russian a year ago if not for our supplies being diverted.
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Haven't seen much of that for a good while.
Eighteen months ago, I picked up a 8# jug of RL-17, as I couldn't find RL-16 anywhere. A few months back, two jugs of RL-16 came in one smaller local shop, and I notified a buddy, but those were gone quickly.
Can't see it getting any better, so long as Russia's feeling "frisky" (read: losing its mind) and threatening all who get "in their way."
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
Never heard or seen H 4320. IMR yes but not Hodgdon.What!? Why, the...
Pretty sure I even saw H4320 in 8 pounders too!
Just out of curiousity.....does the IMR 8208 XBR come from Canada? This stuff has been very difficult to find (until today) for about a year or so....
lawman29
Gold $$ Contributor
Australia. The country of manufacturer is listed on the label.
Yes just so. Hodgdon got its supplier ADI to make a ballistics duplicate of the legendary (Dupont US manufactured) surplus IMR-8208 that the short-range BR crowd had discovered and loved as the finest thing since the invention of sliced bread. But, being from ADI it would be an 'Extreme' temperature insensitive grade.
The pre-production lot given to 6PPC shooters Jackie Schmidt and Lou Murdica in 2009 reportedly met this objective and got rave reports. Sadly, the production powder launched in 2010 changed somehow and as the would-be '6PPC powder king', it failed, Viht N133 keeping that title.
With its background and origin, it should really be a Hodgdon brand product, but it was the attempt to copy surplus Dupont 8208 that saw it named as an IMR grade. Other than Trail Boss, all other IMR grades are made in Canada, so it's an anomaly.
There are some old reports on it in the Bulletin from 2009/2010 if you do a search there.
It was my favourite 308 FTR powder with the 155.5gn Berger after it reached the UK. The US FTR team members told me at the FCWC in 2013 that they'd tried it in this role as an alternative to H4895 and VarGet, but stuck with the older powders as they gave higher MVs.
Laurie's excellent response should remind us that we no longer produce much of anything. At the height of WWII, we produced 21.6 billion ammo cartridges per year. Today we produce 1.8 Billion. After the war, the government shut down every ammo factory save Lake City. It is no surprise, therefor, that there aren't many smokeless powder producers here today. My advice is simple: stock up now.
This is the internet version of 'A friend of a friend told me'...
Good grief
So many times we really are our own worst enemy
Trust me dude..
L.Sherm
Silver $$ Contributor
I think you better look again, depending on who you believe the NSSF says 12 billion a year. Low estimates say 8.6 billion
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Which VV powder performs like RL26? Looking for something for load development in my 270 WSM....
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