Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone on set

[simo hayha]

couldnt happen to a nicer guy,,,,,

 

[Retired Grunt]

If you hand a gun to someone who is not competent with a gun, and he then turns and accidentally shoots someone, whose fault is it?

Like I said in response to Post #1, Ultimately it is the Person that pulls the trigger

 

[Retired Grunt]

Baldwin has been around a long time, you can bet good money he knows firearms.

I read somewhere or saw it on a report that this may have been Baldwin's personal firearms, if so then it is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

 

[garandman]

This a particularly sad reflection on the humanity of some posters here. I won't return.

Actually it is a very humane response to Be angered by the hypocrisy of the Antigun crowd, who demonize safegun owners while making billions off of unsafe firearm practices, and also be grieved for the loved ones who this hypocrite killed and injured.

 

[Fuj]

Going to be an interesting "FOX News Sunday"

 

[V509]

Stunt car is still a great example and there are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.

I didn't say why the steering linkage broke. Maybe the stunt driver was too aggressive and was told not to drive that way. Maybe the metal in the tie rod was defective. Maybe a mechanic over torqued a tie rod nut. Maybe the design was poor. Maybe the stunt itself was not safe.

So for there not to be an accident.....

1. The steering linkage would have to be a adequate design

2. The driver would have to drive within the steering linkage design limits

3. The parts would not have any defects

4. The stunt would have to be safe

Anyone one of those items failing could case and accident. Each of those items has a different responsible person/entity, thus there are multiple layers of responsibility. It could have been a combination of failures, a "chain of events", as we see commonly in aircraft accident investigations, both military and civilian. In fact, it's common that any accident has many contributing causes.

If I was the investigator in the Baldwin shooting, I would ask several questions like:

1. What are the procedures for using prop guns?

2. Were those procedures followed?

3. Are those procedures reasonable and standard within the industry?

4. What training did the armorers and actors have in using prop guns?

5. Was there any horseplay involved?

6. Are any of the actors and crew known to flaunt rules?

Many years ago I underwent USAF firearms training. It was a recurring requirement for pilots. I even managed to finagle an M-16 qual. In ALL of those firearms training classes, when we were in the classroom, guns were being handles and pointed all over the place.

Being a long time gun guy even way back then, I objected. The instructors told me that they made certain there was no ammo in the room, and there just wasn't any way to keep guns from being pointed at other people. I never liked that and I wouldn't point my gun at anyone. I even watched one time when an instructor had a student point their handgun at his face so he could he could see how she was lining up the sights.

As far as I know there has never been an accident in a USAF firearms training classroom. That said, if there was, who is at fault?

The clueless kid handling a gun for very first time who pulled the trigger? The instructor training the student? The instructor who was complacent about securing the ammo? Leadership at the squadron, wing, or higher who allowed firearms training to be conducted that way?

There are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.......

The first question to ask is why was the gun pointed at a person who is not an actor and why was the trigger pulled

 

[kvd]

Whatever the outcome, it is very sad that this 42 year old wife and mother - who was apparently an up and comer in the world of cinematography lost her life due to such gross carelessness.

 

[rijndael]

The smoking gun that claimed the life of Halyna Hutchins might've been more than just an on-set prop -- it was also being fired recreationally, even when cameras weren't rolling.

Multiple sources directly connected to the 'Rust' production tell TMZ ... the same gun Alec Baldwin accidentally fired -- hitting the DP and director -- was being used by crews members off set as well, for what we're told amounted to target practice.

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

The gun was supposedly being used for target practice, with real bullets.

www.tmz.com

And:

ALBUQUERQUE — There were at least two accidental gun discharges on the set of an Alec Baldwin movie being filmed in New Mexico days before he fatally shot the cinematographer, according to three former members of the film’s crew.


The discharges occurred on Oct. 16, the former crew members said, prompting a complaint to a supervisor about the safety practices on the set, which was outside Santa Fe. The crew members, who asked not to be named out of fear that their future employment in the industry could be affected, were among several workers who quit, just hours before the fatal shooting, over complaints about unpaid work and working conditions on the production.

Gun Mishaps Occurred on Baldwin Film Before Shooting, Workers Say

 

[markT]

Is is true that the military does use “accidental discharge” any longer? They now use “negligent discharge.”
Is was “no accident “ that “Baldwin” pointed a firearm in a “direction” and “pulled” the trigger.

 

[RKS]

This a particularly sad reflection on the humanity of some posters here. I won't return.

Humanity: compassionate, sympathetic, or generous behavior or disposition

This thread is about Alec Baldwin. I don't see any reason he should receive any of the above. If you would like to start a thread on the victims I'm quite sure you would see responses showing the very humanity you claim to be concerned about. I find that anyone using a "moral high ground" response to be suspect.

This is a simple case of manslaughter, at the minimum, that Alec Balwin will likely elude due to his status. I have zero sympathy or compassion for him based solely on his own actions over a long period of time.

 

[jdh47]

Lauren Southern had a decent video about the shooting.

Bitchute

BitChute is a video service that prioritizes creators and champions users' freedoms and privacy.

www.bitchute.com

I feel bad for all involved, even Baldwin, as much as I find him distasteful. There is a lot of blame going around now and some are pointing at the armorer. The fact remains Baldwin pointed the gun and fired it. Only he pulled the trigger. There are rules plainly laid out about what takes place during filming. The main one is do not point a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot.

John Wayne shot thousands of people and no one died. There have been thousands of movies and shows made during the years from westerns to war movies and very few accidents have happened. Accidents have happened and people should've learned from them. One actor shot and killed himself by pointing the gun at his head and pulling the trigger thinking that a blank was safe.

One thing's for sure. This was a low budget movie that was plagued with problems including firearms mishaps. Apparently nobody paid attention to the signs of trouble that eventually led to the tragic death of an innocent person.

 

[jackieschmidt]

It wou

There was horseplay involved! Law enforcement has not yet made the root cause public info.

lt would be refreshing to have everybody wait until the facts are gathered by Law Enforcement before passing judgement on any one individuals actions.

The very proof that somebody messed up royally lies in the fact that there is one dead person and one wounded. This goes under the heading of something that is absolutely not supposed to happen If all safeguards are adhered too. The protocols alluded to in post # 103 will play a big role in determining culpability.

 

[rijndael]

Apparently nobody paid attention to the signs of trouble that eventually led to the tragic death of an innocent person.

I'd argue that if staff walked off the set earlier that day for safety issues, people were paying attention. Management must not have been listening to their concerns or they didn't understand what was at risk, or didn't care.

 

[markT]

“It would refreshing to have everybody wait until facts are gathered by law enforcement....”
You can not be serious.
You honestly think law enforcement will be allowed to do their job and gather the facts and present these facts. There is absolutely no way the truth will be enforced by prosecutors and justice be “served.”
If this would have happened on a Clint Eastwood set then, yes.
There is too much money and power and “red” at stake on this one.

 

[shooterjon]

He shot someone while filming from a firearm that was handed to him. Terrible. Who is responsible?

WELL I am thinking Hollywood is NOT helping our 2nd. amendment, SOOOOOOOOOO I propose that Hollywood Immediately SWITCH to bright orange SQUIRT GUNS with ANY AND ALL SCENES USING GUNS.all this with LOW CAL NON SUGARED WATER ,approved by EPA and D. Fouchi.
PS, A disclaimer on the use of the squirt guns stating they are FAKE and won't hurt anyone because there only filled with NON sweetened KOOL AID is acceptable
Just me Thinkin !

 

[Tokay444]

He shot someone while filming from a firearm that was handed to him. Terrible. Who is responsible?

Baldwin.

Safety Tips for Use of Firearms · Actors' Equity Association

 

[Dgd6mm]

Humanity: compassionate, sympathetic, or generous behavior or disposition

This thread is about Alec Baldwin. I don't see any reason he should receive any of the above. If you would like to start a thread on the victims I'm quite sure you would see responses showing the very humanity you claim to be concerned about. I find that anyone using a "moral high ground" response to be suspect.

This is a simple case of manslaughter, at the minimum, that Alec Balwin will likely elude due to his status. I have zero sympathy or compassion for him based solely on his own actions over a long period of time.

You can double this for me!

 

[RKS]

He shot someone while filming from a firearm that was handed to him. Terrible. Who is responsible?

Replace some of the words and then answer your own question:

"I shot someone while (doing anything) from a firearm that was handed to me. Terrible. Who is responsible?"

The only confusion in this issue is due to the people involved. The bottom line is quite simple.

 

[drop_point]

So if somebody hands me a loaded gun and I point it at somebody and pull the trigger; killing them, as long as its being filmed, I'm absolved of liability?

 

[Alexander-M]

I have taken countless courses on gun handling to become a Range Safety Officer, for Concealed Carry licensing, for handgun proficiency, and so on. I remember four fundamentals rules which, as well as I can remember, were taught at these courses. Sometimes the order of rules one and two may have been swapped, and the same for the order of the third and fourth, but the four rules were always the same.

• Treat every gun as if it were loaded until you check that it is not.
• Do not point your gun at anything you do not want to kill.
• Be sure of your target, what is behind it, and what is around it.
• Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

With the recent Baldwin negligent discharge, where he clearly violated the first three rules listed above, I did a search for gun safety rules. I was surprised to see that the above four rules are not universal at all, even among the various NRA websites that came up.

Some include two or three of the rules I listed, but with different wording. Others add rules that makes sense, such as make sure the ammunition is correct for the gun, make sure the gun fits you properly, and others.

Still, I believe the four rules I listed make the most sense, are easier to explain to anyone learning, and are easier to remember.

What rules do you remember learning as fundamental gun safety rules?
Thanks!

Alex