Advice wanted on F-TR Build

[boltman13]

What I have: Rem 700 SA, Choate varmit stock, Sinclair bipod. My plan: Krieger barrel at least 30", Jewell trigger, Tubb speedlock, action trued. My questions: Heavy, regular or light Palma barrel? Twist? 5R rifling? Should I plan on using the new 155.5 gr Palma bullets from the start or heavier bullets say 175 gr MK's. Any advice appreciated.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I would suggest that, this being your first F/TR barrel, you build a bit of flexibility into your design. I haven't found a bullet yet that won't shoot in a 10 twist.

Depending on the weight of your stock, you can swing a 30" heavy palma barrel. I would talk to my smith about the flexibility of the action before doing so. You might need to do some stiffening. I don't think you need a heavy palma, nor do I think they shoot better than mediums.

Good luck,
Keith

 

[TonyR]

I recently went through the same process and started by weighing all of the pieces on hand and getting advertized weights for the rest of it. I found that the weight of the barrel was the biggest unknown but I at least knew what the maximum weight of the barrel could be by subtracting the weight of everything else from the F-T/R weight limit. Dan Lilja has a couple of pretty accurate Excel programs on his website which estimate the weights of contoured barrels like the Palma contours and another that works pretty well with the Varmint tapers. I used them to determine the lengths and contours I could use and still make weight. I have been using the Berger 185 LRBT and 200 gr Hybrids from a 30 inch 1:11 twist barrel, but I shoot mostly 1000 yards and want all the speed I can get. I also have a 1:12 twist 26 inch barrel that shoots the 185 LRBT 100 fps slower. Some of the fps difference is tuning-related and other factors.

 

[cmillard]

i would do an 11" twist 3R (benchmark) or 5R krieger. do med to heavy palma contour. i would shoot the 185 berger hybrid or 200 berger hybrid. get your throat set up to where the shank is ahead of the neck shoulder junction then jam those bullets

 

[Steve Blair]

I always opt for a 10" twist and have four .308 rifles that I shoot in F-T/R. With modern bullets, there is no downside to the tighter twist. If you plan to always shoot light bullets (under 185), a slower twist will work fine. If you have a short freebore, there is no point in a 10" twist because you cannot shoot any bullet that needs it without pushing the shank below the neck-shoulder junction. Although, for Mid Range, I shoot 155.5 Berger FULLBORE bullets from a '95 Palma chamber and 10" twist. The rifle shoots about .3 MOA. For Long Range, I do not consider anything under 200 grains and am currently shooting 230 Hybrids. That requires a longer freebore and may render light bullets impractical. The key to shooting heavy bullets is managing the recoil. This can be done either with a hard or light hold and requires careful adjustment of one's body position. When my position is correct, I am still on target after recovering from recoil. If you examine the ballistics of the 230 Hybrid at 2500 fps muzzle velocity, you will easily see the attraction. Like everything in life, it comes with a cost. [br]
Per Tony's build process: that is also the way I approach it. The only difference is that I use Pro/ENGINEER CAD software to model the barrel and can estimate barrel weight within ±¼ oz.

 

[XTR]

You can make weight in almost any stock with a 30" heavy Palma and a Sinclair adjustable bipod, and a Night Force 8-32 or 12-42 scope, and you can probably make weight with a 32" heavy Palma. (I'm currently have almost a pound to spare in a McM A5 and a 30") If you run a Sightron it's lighter.

If you don't plan to try to shoot super heavies a 1:11 or a 1:12 is fine. Berger recommends the 1:12 for everything up to190 except the 185 Hybrid. if you plan to shoot the 155s then a 1:12 is plenty.

A 1:10 will shoot anything you can ever load in a 308.

 

[Steve Blair]

If you don't plan to try to shoot super heavies a 1:11 or a 1:12 is fine. Berger recommends the 1:12 for everything up to190 except the 185 Hybrid. if you plan to shoot the 155s then a 1:12 is plenty.

A 1:10 will shoot anything you can ever load in a 308.

[br]
I agree with XTR's comments but it is worth noting that Berger recommends 1:12 or faster. The Latest Berger Product Sheet is attached.

 

[boltman13]

Thank you one and all for your advice. Also thanks sleepygator for the Berger quick refrence sheet. I guess I shouldn't worry so much about making weight. My smith has a scale to weigh all my components before he does the barrel. I am leaning toward a 1:11 or 1:12 as I do not intend to ever shoot a 200 gr bullet in a 308 let alone a 230 gr one. Those BC's look tempting but my 63 year old body will appreciate less recoil. I have extensive experience in hunter benchrest with 30 cal bullets from 110 to 150 gr in a tight necked 308, and 60+ rounds off the bench and I can tolerate that very well and I don't shoot it free recoil. Again thanks for the info and advice, I appreciate it very much.

 

[Rustystud]

You have been given a lot of advice here already. FTR limits you to .223 or 308. The .308 is the caliber of choice if you are going to shoot 600-1000 yrds. Just because you are shooting a .308 you are not limited in the US to 155 grain bullets. For 155s to be supersonic at 1000 yards they have to be run at over 3000 fps. A tight bore (.298-.299) 30-32 inches in 1:12-1:13.5 twist is the choice for the 155 Palma bullets. Tight bore is not the choice for the higher BC .308s 175-215 grains in weight. A .3000"- .3004" x .3075" -.3084" with a 1:10 - 1:12 twist. There are many barrel choices 3 groove, 4 groove, 5 groove 5R and 6 groove. Some of the better FTR shooters are shooting 185-215 grain bullets due to their BC. Due to weight considerations I would use a Heavy Palma contour instead of a straight 1.125.
Just my .02 cents worth
Nat Lambeth

 

[boltman13]

After reviewing all the excellent advice I have received I am starting to think maby a 1:10 or 1:11 twist shooting a 175 to 184 bullet in a rifle as heavy as F-TR allows may be the way to go and learn to deal with recoil as I practice. I will share all this advice with my smith and make a barrel selection and let you know what I went with. I hope to be able to post pictures by late this year. Again my thanks.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Once you get to 18 lbs, there really isn't that much recoil. Even my 200 grain load doesn't do too much jumping around and I'm down below 17 lbs of rifle weight.

I don't think that you will be too worried about he recoil either. Most of the time, people have shot 308's in the 9 pound range and those rifles do push a touch. Doubling the weight of the rifle really takes most of the push out of it.

There is also a bit of technique to setting up the shooting position and rifle. If you are inclined to lean into the bipod pretty hard, then you are going to get a bit of jostling around. If, on the other hand, you use one of the newer bipod designs and let the rifle rest while gently pulling it into your shoulder, the result is quite a bit smoother.

There is a huge amount to learn, and the only way to do it is to go out and shoot.

Speaking of which, I need to get some shut-eye. Tommorrow is 600 yard day around here...

 

[boltman13]

Well I settled on a 1:10 twist Kreger standard palma barrel with standard rifling. It's on order and when the build is finished i will post pictures. I plan on Lapua brass, CCI BR-2 primers and 175-190 gr bullets. Thanks again for the advice, it is much appreciated.

 

[Steve Blair]

Good plan. It will allow you flexibility if your bullet choices change.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Well I settled on a 1:10 twist Kreger standard palma barrel with standard rifling. It's on order and when the build is finished i will post pictures. I plan on Lapua brass, CCI BR-2 primers and 175-190 gr bullets. Thanks again for the advice, it is much appreciated.

For what it's worth, my Krieger barrel finally showed up yesterday, (I ordered it back in early January.) It is a finished length of 32 inches with a 1:11 twist and a medium-heavy (.860 muzzle) contour, .300 bore/.308 groove. It is for my next F-T/R rifle. I currently shoot 180gr JLKLBT in my 1:11.25 twisted F-T/R but I am considering a move to the Berger Hybrids (200 or 215).

 

[Keith Glasscock]

The 200 Hybrid works well in an 11 twist, but the 215 is too long. The ones I have in hand measure 1.596" long.

How has the 180 LBT been shooting for you? I gave the 210 LBT's a go. and they shot well, but the 200 hybrid was just a touch better out of my 11 twist barrel. Now that I'm running a 10 twist, I should give them another try.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

The 180LBT has worked very well for me. So well in fact, that I am having a tough time deciding on whether to switch to something else. I'm in pursuit of a better BC but I am afraid this may blind me to something that does not require fixing. If you know what I mean. I chose the 1:11 twist because I consider it the optimum for a .308; not too fast and not too slow. It's just right.