Sanity Check on using AR15 for F-TR

[Berger.Fan222]

A billet upper? Are you nuts, it should be forged! You'll never hit anything with a billet upper.

Ok, just kidding there.

I started in F-TR with an AR-15 and after a while I rebarreled it with a 26 inch Krieger. The twist rate in mine is 1:7.7, not 1:7. I also had them chamber it with their 5.56 NATO Match chambering, which allowed the use of long bullets.

I used a Bobsled as a bolt open device and it really makes single loading a breeze. I also installed a through-the-fingerguard bolt release, which makes it much more convenient once in position. Because I was using this rig for 1000 yards, I also added a CWS to the carrier, with the heavy insert. I was using nuclear-grade loads and wanted to retard the bolt unlocking as long as possible. I also swapped the action spring with one of Tubb's C/S spring. (I have one of those in all my ARs, including my AR-10, eliminates the boing sound.) In fact, I replaced all the springs with C/S springs equivalent whenever possible. The stock is a Magpul PRS and the bipod was a Sinclair Gen 2 at the time. I replaced the regular grip with one of Tubb's grip, which is the absolute best for shooting prone with an AR.

For ammo, I was using the 80gr JLKs at all ranges (300,600, 1000) in a Winchester case with 25.5gr Varget and the bullet seated at over 2.5 (I forget the details.) I did start with the 75 A-Max, but I could not keep them supersonic at 1000 during the Houston winters; the 80 JLKs never gave me an issue.

I never used the 77SMK for F-class as I consider that bullet to be the best for mag-length cartridges and sub-par for single loading precision. The 69 gr was better but the 80s are far superior.

At the end of my run with that AR, I was able to reach High Master at mid-range (300-600), but could not get out of Sharpshooter at Long Range. Stuff happens to .223 bullets past 600 yards. That's when I decided to switch to a bolt .308 and never looked back.

I had a great time with that AR, it is an absolute fun gun to shoot and precise as all get out, but even with an MV of over 2800FPS, the 80grainers just could not keep up with the tiny F-class rings at 1000 yards.

You will have a lot of fun with an AR, I could actually go though a string without ever breaking cheekweld. The semi auto action yanks out the spent case and I just dropped a new cartridge in the port and pushed the bolt release lever in the trigger guard and was ready to go again.

Lots of great advice here. Thanks for taking the time and including so much detail.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Thanks. BTW, if you can get your hands on a copy of the magazine Book Of The AR, the 2008 edition, you can see pictures of my AR in an article of mine, which they published in that issue. This was a reprint of the article from 2007 Rifle Shooter magazine.

Laurie, good to hear from you again; it's been a while. Will you be coming to the Nationals in Lodi this year?

 

[Laurie]

Hello Denys ........... Lodi would be fun, but I'm purely a club shooter these days and have dropped out of competing in GB national league events, never mind international. (I help RO the three rounds held on Diggle Ranges, so I still see our F-Class crowd on a regular basis and can swap war stories.) Whisper it quietly, but I've gone over to the dark side (f-open) and am shooting what seems like everything under the sun from 6BR to 308 in it. I have this yen to rebuild my old long-range 223 FTR gun as a 22lb F/O job for short-range comps, or even not so short-range when the weather forecast says light winds. We have a new Swiss powder over here called Reload Swiss RS52 - think Alliant Re17 (RS60) with the Nitrochemie 'EI' infused deterrents technology, but VarGet / Re15 burning speed - which I'm hoping can get the 90gn VLD back over 2,900 fps with good precision and acceptable pressures. If it it looks good in my 28-inch Heavy Palma barrels, I'll be tempted to rebarrel with a 31-inch heavy F profile job and damn the weight!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I found a picture of my AR-15 as it was in 2008. The Bobsled in there is the "20-round" model, but I used the "5-round" model when shooting in competition. The scope is a Weaver T-36. The rear bag was not the one I was using at that time, I just grabbed that one for the picture as the Protektor was in the range bag. Notice the bolt release lever at the top of the fingerguard. And the extended buttplate on the PRS, I'm tall and firing from prone makes everything longer still.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Hello Denys ........... Lodi would be fun, but I'm purely a club shooter these days and have dropped out of competing in GB national league events, never mind international. (I help RO the three rounds held on Diggle Ranges, so I still see our F-Class crowd on a regular basis and can swap war stories.) Whisper it quietly, but I've gone over to the dark side (f-open) and am shooting what seems like everything under the sun from 6BR to 308 in it. I have this yen to rebuild my old long-range 223 FTR gun as a 22lb F/O job for short-range comps, or even not so short-range when the weather forecast says light winds. We have a new Swiss powder over here called Reload Swiss RS52 - think Alliant Re17 (RS60) with the Nitrochemie 'EI' infused deterrents technology, but VarGet / Re15 burning speed - which I'm hoping can get the 90gn VLD back over 2,900 fps with good precision and acceptable pressures. If it it looks good in my 28-inch Heavy Palma barrels, I'll be tempted to rebarrel with a 31-inch heavy F profile job and damn the weight!

F-OPEN? Oh, sorry... F-open? Are you serious? Really? What's come over you?

I read your reports about your travails and successes working with the .223 over the years. I gave up that caliber for F-class in 2009 and while I miss the total lack of recoil and the sheer fun of shooting that AR, I'm not going back to it any time soon. Well, I might pull it out if I ever shoot a 300 yard match in the future.

Keep us posted on your findings.

 

[Laurie]

F-OPEN? Oh, sorry... F-open? Are you serious? Really? What's come over you?

Keep us posted on your findings.

I know ... it's my shameful secret. Please don't tell anyone. Will do on how the 223 goes ... haven't shot it for over a year, but will do some testing shortly including the PT&G 'ISSF' chamber with a shorter FB than my original.

I found an old pic of my 'straight-pull' AR as shot at 1,000 I think back in 2004. Looking at the set-up and the 20X44 fixed power MIlDot scope (what you guys call the SWFA Sniperscope I think, we called them something different here) M16A2 buttstock and not even a proper rear bag, I'm amazed I could hit anything at 1K ... and nothing to do with it being 223

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I found another picture of my AR, this is from November 2008 (8 years ago already? Time sure flies when you're having fun.)
This is with the proper rear bag for those days, and the proper Bobsled out of the rifle. You can see the ammo at the bottom. I was using moly-coated bullets in those days, with that nuclear load. The only thing else that is different from the prior picture is the bowed triggerguard. All my ARs have that type of trigger guard.

 

[Mozella]

Figure out what it takes to shoot sub 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards. Then find a reasonably powerful, adjustable power scope. If you meet those two criteria, it will be a LONG time before you can blame your equipment for not being competitive, at least at local matches. F Class is all about the wind. Of course, a good bolt gun which shoots 1/4 MOA on a regular basis has an advantage, even in the hands of a new guy.

However, your AR equipment will give you plenty to work with. You'll know when your gear is holding you back, but it won't be for quite a while.

Most folks, for example, think the .308 is the way to go in F/TR. That's hard to argue with, but I prefer my .223 and I sometimes win with it against the .308 shooters. The victory is all the sweeter. Have fun and don't forget to dress in black SWAT team gear and bring your German Shepard.

 

[manitou210]

An AR is completely legal for F-TR as long as it's .223 or .308, is single-fed, and makes weight. Having shot .223 bolt guns for some time in F-TR, I can tell you that a 69, 75, or 77 gr bullet will be a significant disadvantage at 600 yd, no matter how fast you're pushing them. If you chamber will allow you to load them optimally, the 80.5s are a much better bullet, very forgiving to load, with a much higher BC. I doubt you have anywhere near enough freebore to seat the 90 VLDs optimally, although if you can, that's really the way to go. However, the 80.5s would be a distinct step up from the lower weight/BC bullets. In any event, this setup is what you currently have. Optimize the load as best you can and keep participating and enjoying it. I'd also think about getting a higher mag optic at some point, but what you have will work for now. Just remember, having fun will keep you coming back. Also, improving your skill with a .223 will only make you a better wind reader and shooter. Good luck!

What gstaylorg said is right the 80.5 would be best choice use some Varget near max load you will be pleased
manitou