ADI/Hodgdon powders

[BradY]

Hi All
In Aus we struggle to get a decent supply of powders other than what is made here and sold as ADI powders. Some of these are sold in the USA as the 'extreme' range of Hodgdon powders. I have heard stories that the powder that is made in Aus and sent to the USA has alot more graphite in it as that is what the distributor there wanted. Apparently H4350, varget and H4895 there are "black" while all of them here are what I would call "green". If I take a photo of these powders here known as ADI 2209, 2208 and 2206H respectively on a piece of white paper, Im wondering if someone in the USA could return the favour and do the same for the H4350, varget and H4895. I would be interested in seeing if they are indeed darker and have more graphite than our powders. There is alot of talk about certain powders burning clean, dirty and being lot sensitive but temp stable.

When I shoot with non ADI powders here, there are a couple more black patches, but I find the carbon fouling doesnt take as much effort to clean. Im assuming this is because of the graphite content. Where carbon fouling with our ADI powders can be a real pain in the rear to remove. I also find our powders seem to burn hotter and peak out pressure a little quicker than some of the other powders from overseas. Apparently our powders are some of the most temp stable powders available in the world but Im looking at that and finding sometimes its not always the case. A small group of friends have been doing very well with an imported powder that is supposed to be temperature sensitive. They shoot the same charge on hot or cold days and it plain hammers all the time in their rifles, ES and SD is quite constant and best of all, their barrels clean up quick, throat erosion is minimal and barrels are noticeably cooler after a string than those shooting with ADI powders.

Would appreciate some photos and experiences.

 

[qbert]

I don't have any pics for you yet, but all my Varget, H4350, and H4895 have a greenish color. I know it's unrelated, but my Accurate Arms XMR4350 is black.

What is this imported powder that your friends are having success with?

 

[CatShooter]

All of the ADI/Hodgdon powders here, are green, and clean up very quickly.

 

[Elwood]

All Hodgdons powders in the UK are invisible!

 

[Down South]

All Hodgdons powders in the UK are invisible!

;D.......Same here at the moment!

 

[243winxb]

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/news.asp

Colour change of AR2205

10 May 2007

The colour of AR2205 has been made darker to align its appearance with other ADI sporting propellants sold in the US market. The change in colour has not changed the powder's ballistic performance therefore reloading data using AR2205 does not need to be altered.

AR2206H replaces AR2206

11 July 2007

Propellant AR2206H is finally set to replace AR2206 on the Australian & New Zealand reloading market. AR2206H is an improved variation of AR2206, and is designed to optimise heavy projectile performance where it increases projectile velocity while at the same time reduces chamber pressures. It is suitable for use in a similar range of calibres and powder loads as AR2206.

AR2206H was released into the North American market in 1999, and is distributed by the Hodgdon Powder Co. under the brand name H4895. This powder has proven to be extremely popular in the USA due to its superior loading consistency and its unrivalled performance stability in severe temperature variations. Distribution to such a demanding and variable market also means that we can offer more reloading data to cover your favourite calibre-projectile combinations. Australian handloaders can now experience the many benefits of reloading with AR2206H.

Sorry, no photos.

 

[jlow]

All of the ADI/Hodgdon powders here, are green, and clean up very quickly.

Catshooter is correct - see attached photo

 

[Laurie]

When I shoot with non ADI powders here, there are a couple more black patches, but I find the carbon fouling doesn't take as much effort to clean. I'm assuming this is because of the graphite content. Where carbon fouling with our ADI powders can be a real pain in the rear to remove.

There could be many reasons for that and graphite coating would be only one. Flame temperatures, specific energy levels and the entire range of coatings in addition to graphite affect fouling. Graphite is normally used to improve kernel flow in powder measures and funnels and to reduce static electricity build-up, a major danger for obvious reasons. Since ADI / Hodgdon powders aren't 'graphite-black' in colour, presumably ADI uses something else to achieve these ends.

I also find our powders seem to burn hotter and peak out pressure a little quicker than some of the other powders from overseas.

Again, there are lots of factors that affect this issue. For instance, all ADI / Hodgdon extruded powders are single-base (nitrocellulose only), while all Bofors and Nitrochemie manufactured Alliant powders contain an element of hotter burning nitroglycerine. However, the faster burning ADI powders have relatively high specific energy levels for single-base powders compared to their Vihtavuori S-B equivalents as measured in Joules per gram weight (J/g).

Viht N140 .... 3,720
Viht N150 .... 3,780
Viht N160 .... 3,620

H322 ........... 4,000
H4895 ......... 4,060
Varget ......... 4,050

Slower burning ADI types that become H4350, H4831, H1000 etc have lower nominal energy levels around the 3,760J/g mark.

Alliant Re powders made by Bofors in Sweden or Nitrochemie in Switzerland all have a nitroglycerine element in the mix, but even so actually have fractionally less energy all running at a nominal 3,990J/g despite being what are known as 'high-energy' types. (But Re17 has more energy than its H4350 equivalent just to confuse everything!)

Manufacturers add various chemicals to reduce flame temperatures (to extend barrel life) so that will likely affect fouling in various ways. (The chemicals are usually non combustible so create fouling and the flame temperature change may also affect the amounts - in this sense, more fouling may be a PITA to clean, but would see longer barrel life if it results from cooler burning charges.)

 

[bigedp51]

You have on your side of the pond a Australian firearms and powder expert who goes by the screen name of DocAV. DocAV works in the movie industry and posted in our American Enfield forums. When the movie Kokoda came out he posted information on the movie, the firearms used and the ammunition.

Your Australian military are the ones who requested the changes to ADI powders that make it a "extreme" powder and I think DocAV would be able to answer your questions.

As Laurie stated above some of what people think of as carbon fouling is actually a bullet lubricant in the bore. Again many of the changes to powders are at the request of the military to improve barrel life. Meaning the "black crap" we clean from our barrels is actually helping us and our barrels.

Contact DocAV in your forums, he like Laurie is very knowledgeable on the subject and has contacts at ADI.

Also I was told by a New Zealander that you Ozmaniacs cheat at rugby.......... :

After watching the movie Kokoda I know you Ozmaniacs play dirty.

Below, incriminating evidence.

DocAV told me not to get upset, the Enfield above is made of hard rubber and can't rust. ;D

 

[BradY]

Jflow- thank you for that photo. I can indeed confirm that my 2208 (your varget) is the same colour.

Laurie- again a wonderful post and very informative- thank you.

If indeed these powders are the same I can dispell any of the rumours people are giving me.

Like I said the non ADI powders we have tried- one of the reloader series from Alliant, is very black obviously due to the graphite in it. And some would say it burns dirty but I believe the couple of extra black patches is more so just a graphite coating. It seems to be very easy to remove. Interesting to note that benchrest shooters here still prefer N133 to anything that ADI produces.

 

[Juma]

In NZ we use 2209 or 2213SC in the 243; 2209 in the WSSM;BM2 in the 223; and 748 in my mates Sako Vixen 222. BM2 is a wicked powder for both metering and speed. Always use kero in the barrel after shooting. All our barrels are spotless.