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Action options for 338 Lapua Magnum?????

I have used the Defiance Deviant more than most of the others, as it is an excellent design.

But my favorite is the Badger Ordnance 2013 action in the Lapua length. It's built like the proverbial brick outhouse, very robust and heavy. I wouldn't use it if you had to make weight for a competition but as a stand alone rifle for long range shooting or hunting, it is superb.

m2013sa.png


I also have used and like the Surgeon action for the Lapua length cartridges. But with all that being said, I have switched everything over to the .338 Norma Mag.:eek:

Regards.
 
No I haven't tried it. The gun is my buddies. He shot a deer at 1869 yards, this year with it. I shoot a 338 Lapua IMP. I was thinking of doing a 338-416 Rigby IMP. I watched Eddie test his. He got 3300 with a 300 Sierra and RE 50. It shot about 5 inches at 1000,which at that speed which I think is great. It was flat shooting. I am thinking it was about 12 or 13 minutes. But it is a 100 pound aluminum stocked heavy gun with a 46 inch long, 2 inch diameter barrel. It takes me 20 1/4 minutes to get on at 1000. Matt
What action are you using with your 338 Lapua imp Matt? Is your buddies 338 edge in a R700? Thanks
 
I have one 338 LM assembled by Scott Weichel with Stiller TAC 338 action. Nice rifle, the Fat Bastard brake really tames the recoil.

With Sierra 250 grains, the group aren´t that good


Today I went to range( 100 meters) to test Sierra 300 grains projectiles that I bought.

I started load development with only 3 shots per charge, with 87/88/89 grains respectively.

After one shot to foul the barrel, I did the first test with 87 grains of powder and I barely believed it. . Three shots in a hole.

Now the challenge is do it again. Believe I was lucky too;)

The load with 88 grains did not group so well and I noticed the bolt starting to get heavy to open ..

The load with 89 decided to disassemble.
 

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msinc,

I will add a caveat to this. I think Kurz is on the mark. You might also want to take a look at the 300 Norma Mag. I have shot quite a bit lately with guys running this caliber and it will be my next build. From what I have seen it shoots inside my 338 L with noticeably less recoil. I love my 338 Lapua and have had it for a several years but I honestly believe the 338 and 300 Norma are inherently more accurate.
 
msinc,

I will add a caveat to this. I think Kurz is on the mark. You might also want to take a look at the 300 Norma Mag. I have shot quite a bit lately with guys running this caliber and it will be my next build. From what I have seen it shoots inside my 338 L with noticeably less recoil. I love my 338 Lapua and have had it for a several years but I honestly believe the 338 and 300 Norma are inherently more accurate.
I believe the 338 Norma is a great shooter, but you can only get 2800 tops with 300 Berger and brass is soft and will not last. With the Edge or Lapua 3000 can be reached with the 300 and brass lasts with Lapua. I can run 3100 with my Lapua IMP. When long range hunting the difference in wind drift is real noticable. In deer season this year I shot my gun at a rock at around 1380. My buddy shot his 338-408 CHEYTAC at the same rock. I was running mine 2993 and he was close to 3300. The difference in wind drift was 6MOA for mine and 3MOA for his.

The 300 feet per second is a tremendous difference in wind. It is enough that I need to get the newer Berger so I can push them faster. I have the first Generation that can't be pushed over 3000 or they start to slump. Both guns will shoot 4 to 5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards. They both have 1.450 diameter 36 inch barrels glued into a block and mounted in heavy aluminum stocks running,on rails like our Heavy 1000 yard competition guns. Matt
 
I don't know if you're interested in this info , or not . I saw Matt gave a few elevation corrections in his one post for his 338 Lapua imp , mine is just a 338Lapua . where I practice 1000yards is a bad place for me to shoot from , it's in a bit of a valley and lays wet . I shoot a 30" bbl , 300 gr Berger E.hunter , RL33 powder . my velocity is right around 2930FPS . this morning was 32*F at 1107 yards I dialed 26.0 moa , it called for 25.9 . at 1249 yards I dialed 31.5 MOA , it called for 31.4 .

I have a printed out drop chart that follows along pretty close with my G7BR2 rangefinder . it calls for 22.1MOA at 1000 yards I have not confirmed this .
 
The Rem action will work fine for the 338 Lapua. There have been a ton of them built on it. If one has had a dangerous failure it has not made it by my ears. I had a 300 Lapua (338 case) that was a hammer with several K rounds through it & it never missed a beat....
I bet there is a big difference in bolt thrust between shooting a 30 cal (max weight 240 grains and a 338 caliber 300 grain bullet.

Just because many guns were built on one doesn't make it safe if something happens. Lots of the GOOD gunsmiths will not build one on a Rem 700 because of liability. Another reason is to make a 338 Lapua really shine it should be a 32 inch plus heavy barrel. Not something I want to hang on a Remington for accuracy reasons or strength. I shot 1000 yard BR. For 18 seasons. I have seen many 1000's of big guns and accurate rifles come and go. The Mauser and Remington 700's are practically extinct on the firing line. 10 to 15 years ago they were present in numbers. None of the 338 caliber guns are competitive at 1000 yard BR. We had an average of 100 plus light guns and 100 plus heavy guns every other week for years. That is over 2000 targets a season not counting World Open and shootouts. There is a reason this happened and it is not money.

If you are thinking of building a 338 Lapua to shoot a lot of rounds or for accuracy, it is not what you want. It is made for shooting way out there and hit with a ton of authority. There are a lot better choices for shooting to 1000 yards and under, with way better accuracy and a lot cheaper to shoot. Matt
 
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This is from Kirby Allen on long range hunting. He builds a lot of custom rifles off of the Lapua case. This is NOT my statement, but from a guy who knows his stuff.

"When you look at max chamber pressure concerning the Remington M700, its really not that simple just to reply to a simple question.

If you take a Rem 700 chambered in 223, the receiver would take pretty much anything you could put to it, well over 100,000 psi. Certainly not saying it should be loaded extremely hot but the small case head of the 223 really does not tranpose alot of chamber pressure to the bolt face.

The larger the case head size, the lower the breaking point in chamber pressure will be for any receiver.

For example and this is just an example, suppose the Rem 700 will support 120,000 psi with a 223 Rem case head diameter. Jump up to the 30-06 case head size and that would likely drop to 100,000 psi.

Step up to the belted magnum case head size and that would likely drop to 85,000 psi. Step up to the Lapua class case head and that peak would drop to say 75,000 psi.

Its all a function of chamber pressure and the amount of area that the case head presses back against the bolt with.

Now remember all these numbers are strictly for example.

Where you can get into trouble though is that many that hand load for a rifle will start with load development and increase powder charges until they top out in pressure, or at least that they think is topping out in pressure.

If you have a properly accurized receiver, you will see far fewer pressure warning signs then with a factory rifle.

If your shooting a 300 RUM for example, you will get a hair over 65,000 psi and your primer pockets will start to loosen up dramatically giving you an OBVIOUS sign that your way over pressure.

The problem with the Lapua is that by the time you reach this high pressure sign, that being primer pockets loosening, you will be WAY over the safe working design levels of the Rem 700. A 338 Lapua case made by Lapua will take 70,000 psi and show no real signs of primer pockets loosening, especially with only one or two firings. Does this mean its safe.........

A Rem 700 will certainly handle a properly loaded 338 Lapua load. That being roughly 2700-2750 fps with a 300 gr SMK in a 26-27" barrel length. In a 30" barrel you will see around 2800-2850 fps. With loads in this range, the Rem 700 is more then strong enough to handle this level of load long term.

The problem is when someone that does not have a good amount of experience loads the Lapua up higher then it should be. In that case, it WILL stress the Rem 700. Will it come loose, no it will not but over time, it can stress the receiver dramatically.

I personally will not chamber a stainless Rem 700 for a Lapua class chamber. The reason again is not that the Rem 700 will not handle a properly loaded Lapua, even the Stainless will easily handle this level, its just in the event that someone pushes things to hard and do not realize what they are doing.

With a stainless receiver, if you push things to hard, you WILL set the bolt lug supports back in the receiver, especially the bottom lug support in the Rem 700 as its not supported by alot of steel. This happens to a greater degree then the chrome moly(blued) receivers simply because chrome moly is harder and will resist set back better then stainless.

This is not opinion, I have seen it actually happen. I put together a 7mm AM for a customer right when I came out with the wildcat. I had a Rem 700 personally in this same chambering and was more then happy with it. Mine was a chrome moly receiver, the customers was a stainless.

After several months, I got a call from the customer that he was having problems opening the bolt on a fired round. Told him to bring the rifle and load data and ammo he was using.

The rifle had a 26" Lilja 1-7 barrel and was loading the 200 gr ULD RBBT to a legit 3300 fps. Now in a 30" barrel, this would be about tops, in a 26" barrel, VERY HOT LOAD.

He said the rifle performed extremely well for around 75 rounds. After that, he started to notice that the bolt was getting hard to open. Not dramatically but noticable. He backed off his load to 3250 fps but still the problem was there and was getting worse until he had dropped his load to 3000 fps and could hardly open the bolt after firing a round. Total rounds down the bore was less then 150 rounds.

First off I told him his load was way to hot, at least his 3300 fps load. 3200 fps was about right. So why was his 3000 fps load doing this????

I could not figure it out so I told him to leave the rifle and the next day I took the rifle apart. It only took a few measurement from the receiver face to the bolt lug supports to tell me what was happening. From the receiver face to the bottom bolt lug support was a full 7 thou longer then the top measurement....... When I built the rifle, this measurement was less then 0.0002" difference....

Measured the bolt lugs, they were nearly identical in length as they should have been so the bolt lugs themselves were not compressing, only the steel behind them....

So why was the bolt locking up so tightly when fired. Well, the bolt lug support surface was compressing faster away from the cam ramp so when you chambered a round, the bolt lug would climb up the cam and onto the surface but when fired, the bolt would be forced back down the declined surface, effectively making a mechanical lock.

After I saw this, I measured some of his fired case with a 0.0005" dial indicater and it was clear what was happening and this was just more proof of it.

I wanted to test this more, so I took my personal rifle which had a 27" Lilja of the same twist and loaded it up to 3300 fps with this same bullet. I shot 100 round through the rifle at this level. And I can say for a fact that not one of the primer pockets loosened up any noticable amount in the Lapua cases. Certainly not a sign that the load was safe, only that the Lapua case is brutally strong.

After those 100 rounds which were on top of nearly 400 rounds down the bore I had already fired, I pulled the barrel and made the same measurements. In this case, the measurement from the receiver face to the bottom bolt lug support was 1.5 thou longer. It to had set back but but dramatically less then the stainless receiver....

From that point on, I made it a shop policy to never built a Rem 700 stainless receiver into a Lapua class chambered rifle.

Again, please do not read this and start saying that Kirby Allen does not believe the Rem 700 is strong enough to be chambered in the 338 Lapua, that is simply not the case.

All I am saying and I will say it again to be clear, if your using standard printed 338 Lapua load data, even top end printed load data, you will be fine with a properly built Rem 700, chrome moly or stainless.

IF you load hot loads thinking you can load to the limits of the 338 Lapua case in a Rem 700, you will definatly push the Rem 700 harder then it should ever be pushed to and far past its design limits.

Keep a head on your shoulder, do not get caught up in the "grass is always greener" theory, load to standard load levels and you will be fine and very happy with a very long life of your rifle. Push things to hard and you may see just how bad things can get if a Rem 700 or any factory receiver is mistreated.

As a side note, I fully believe that a properly built and accurized Rem 700 is as strong as any factory receiver on the market including the Wby MkV and Sako TRG-S or M995. Over load any of these and you will see the same results, and they will be bad. Load the Lapua properly, and you will have nothing but great results."

Kind of long but a good understanding of the Lapua case on a Rem 700 action.
 
300Whisper if you want to use the Remington action why not build a 338 rum or one of the improved cases? It would give up almost nothing in performance to a 338 lapua. I have 338 lapua on a super magnum Sako action and don't want a 338 Lapua on a Remington.
 
300Whisper if you want to use the Remington action why not build a 338 rum or one of the improved cases? It would give up almost nothing in performance to a 338 lapua. I have 338 lapua on a super magnum Sako action and don't want a 338 Lapua on a Remington.

Not to take away from the OP, but I'm going to stay the course. I have a PTG overzied bolt and all the parts ready. I trust my smith and I won't be overloading the cartridge. Probably keep it right around 2,800 FPS. It will have a 28 inch shilen M24 contour with some free bore to limit the pressure. That post I posted by Kirby Allen wasn't to disprove anyone just showing where some guys get the idea to build a Lapua on a Rem 700 while others don't. Both parties are right to a certain degree, but the custom actions guys are leaning toward the side of caution when deciding to not build on a Rem 700. Which no one can fault them for.

To the OP I'll let you know if my rifle blows up. Lol, but I would recommend the stiller. Those are very nice actions. I had one in 300wsm. The savage 110s in 338 are also very nice shot one once at a range. Cheap too.
 
An inexpensive option may be a CZ550 Magnum action with a 416 Rigby bolt face. The hang up there, however, will be a lack of aftermarket parts available but it will work for $600-ish.
 
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Want a "project" or want to go shooting???

Pretty hard to beat a Sako TRG-42, the original rifle built for the .338 Lapua. The M995 action is excellent 5rd magazine... Even More BETTER, a TRG-42 in .300win mag, which you can rebarrel to a .338 edge; if the goal is longrange like out 2000yds. The Lapua has that .590 case dimension working against you. If cool with that, might weigh the .338 Norma, the newer .590 shorty that duplicates the Lapua performance. Me, I like the .533 standard magnum case, even a rebated .533... like a rum.

But gee... the Lapua cult is all about the brass; except in the military where they shoot what they're issued and not handloads allowed... If looking at a loading manual, the .340wby is right there with the Lapua. Yet, doing your own thing means opening ALL your possibilities. The .375 ruger case necked to .338 has much more bullet seating flexibility to offer. I have a TRG-42 chambered in .338/300win and it has similar versatility, although a shorter neck. Having the 3.75" working area in the TRG-42 magazine is a Big Plus!

Buying a used 42 with maybe full kit of gear and then getting a custom barrel done for it puts you miles ahead and In The Game. You get a rifle to shoot while you wait on your perfected barrel and plenty of time to sort all your components out and fit the rifle to your best functioning. Not many systems as complete or as well thought out as the Sako.

Of course, everybody has a "build" in progress these days... Maybe the Sako takes all that fun off the table? Your idea of the perfect "build" might do all you ever could want, but your resale value will be in the action. A Sako TRG-42 or Accuracy Intl is a known quantity and held in very high esteem. They hold value and perform. The best option will enable flexibility. If you go .533 boltface you have the full magnum world open to you from .264win to .375 or whatever... Switchbarreling is a neat thing to have open to you. Have fun! Just don't figure your "build" will ever be valuable to anyone other than you.
 
And just so we don't leave anyone out...

Cadex has an action set up for the Lapua class cartridges:

action-products.jpg


CDX-R7 SHEEPDOG & SHEPHERD CUSTOM ACTIONS
Cadex R7 Sheepdog (short action calibers) and R7 Shepherd (long action calibers) are custom grade actions designed to replicate the very popular Remington 700 footprint. These actions are fully stainless steel actions with interchangeable top rail in 0, 20 or 30 MOA variants. They feature an ultra-fast 4 lug 50° bolt throw operating handle available in 4 different styles. These actions are compatible with most rifle stocks and chassis for Rem 700 on the market and they offer all features that the competition shooters are looking for.

Rem 700 footprint
Deep laser engraving markings
Machining: CNC
Material: Stainless 416
Lenght: Sheepdog: 7.85″ Shepherd: 8.70″
Diameter: 1.350″
Thread: 1 1/16″ – 18 tpi
Rockwell Receiver: 41-43 HRc
Bolt to body fit: 0.002 to 0.004
.250″ hardened steel recoil lug
Stainless 0, 20, 30 MOA top rail
8-40 top rail screws
Heavy duty bolt stop
Unique top rail localisation system with integrated recoil groove machined into the action upper section
Sheepdog: AICS DSSF 3.055″
Shepherd: AICS up to 3.850″
Compatible with Rem Style trigger
Tool-free bolt disassembly
Ejector: Rem Style
Cadex heavy duty extractor
Rockwell Bolt: 43-45 HRc
Shroud with cocking indicator
Operating handle: Multiple bolt knob styles
Bolt stop: Cadex design
Cadex design cocking piece
Multiple bolt faces available: Type B, C, D
Spiral fluted bolt 4 lug with 50° bolt throw
action-options.jpg
 
I think most good builders try to stay on top of pricing issues in order to remain competitive and viable within the trade. Many spend personal time accumulating pricing information from other suppliers and builders. Certain statements often trigger (no pun intended;)) a desire to test those statements with real world information in order to not fall into the trap of repeating an unsound statement. But, the number of variables can often lead to a disagreement due to those variables as sometimes the spread can be significant. As just one example of the dozens of recombinations:

Purchasing a Remington 700 for blueprinting and conversion to a Lapua bolt face:

- Rem. 700 action body only = $285.00
- PTG Lapua bolt for M700 = $197.00
- Blueprinting both = $100.00 (GA Precision Services)
- PTG Mini M16 extractor = $21.00

Total = $603.00

The often mentioned TAC338 action is listed on Stiller's site as being $1125.00 so the $603.00 is hardly the cost of a typical 'Lapua custom action'. It is 53.6% of the cost of the Stiller action and leaves $522.00 from the cost of the TAC338.

This is simply a way of testing some information and it is not a definitive, all-encompassing statement. I have noted that due to the number of variables that there can be and are some subjective price differences. Most of the criticism will fall on the cost of 'blueprinting' the M700 action and bolt. The price I used is published and quoted by GA Precision. I am aware that other builders will often charge significantly more, although that is not really the point. You're paying for top quality work from GA Precision but paying less for it.

Just for fun, I wanted to point out that many have mentioned the Stiller as being a better choice for the Lapua cartridge because it is a bigger action and larger diameter bolt.

Stiller action = 1.400" diameter.
Stiller bolt = 0.750" diameter.

Rem. M700 action = 1.350" diameter.
Rem. M700 bolt = 0.700" diameter.

Subtract both sets and the answer is 0.650" or 0.325" per side. The difference is in the size of the radius of the bolt lug, where the Stiller is infinitesimally larger by a small percentage of square area. Here is where the materials engineers get all lathered up about that difference, when the real difference is in the hardness of the two mated surfaces, as noted I think by Dave Tooley.

Anyway, no big deal, just some thoughts about what we all get involved with. It's always a benefit to kick some of these things around just to make sure we're on the right track or if we need to re-assess our thinking. That's also why I posted examples of 2, 3, 4 and 6-lug actions.:D

Regards.
 
Thank you for what you said, and thank you for explaining it to the membership. My 338 LM is on Savage, and they designed the receiver around the LM case.
Found this thread today, a few years late. @IdahoSharpshooter, what barrel are you using? I’m still on the factory 24” 9.3 twist light profile fluted barrel with my Savage 338 LM and I’m having trouble finding a load that it really likes. I’m probably going to order a prefit, longer, heavier barrel in the next few months. I think Krueger is selling what I want, but curious what you use.
 

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