Acme 125g LRNFP COL

[Odyssey]

The Hodgdon site for 38 Special LRNFP and 231 powder stated a starting load of 3 grains and a C.O.L. of 1.445" This dimension doesn't seat the bullet to the cannelure. When I seat and crimp to the cannelure I get a C.O.L. of approx. 1.357".
I'm new to reloading. I purchased this Acme bullet because the first bullet I purchased, Berry's Cu plated 158 grain RN did not have a cannelure and this Berry's bullet tapered quickly. When I seated that bullet to Berry's spec. The bullet walls were receding in the case. I discussed with Berry's and worked that one out.
This is frustrating as a newbie.

 

[Dub]

assuming this is a .357? or 9mm??
In most cases for handgun bullets I seat to the cannelure

 

[Odyssey]

Sorry, I realized I left that much needed info out of my post. I have edited the post to note 38 special. Thanks

 

[Dub]

Sorry, I realized I left that much needed info out of my post. I have edited the post to note 38 special. Thanks

then for sure seat to the cannelure, you will be fine

 

[Odyssey]

Ok, It is frustrating to me that information isn't more available and/or accurate. Especially considering that making a round out of spec can cause very unhappy endings. Why wouldn't Acme post the depth when seating to the cannelure? I've learned bullet depth and amount of crimp influence pressures. It would seem I shouldn't be making assumptions as a beginner and deviating from mfrs. specs.

 

[Dub]

Ok, It is frustrating to me that information isn't more available and/or accurate. Especially considering that making a round out of spec can cause very unhappy endings. Why wouldn't Acme post the depth when seating to the cannelure? I've learned bullet depth and amount of crimp influence pressures. It would seem I shouldn't be making assumptions as a beginner and deviating from mfrs. specs.

I understand your concerns and frustrations. The COAL is the maximum COAL for the cartridge as it pertains to the firearms used. There should be information to this effect in the opening sections of your loading manual. I use hodgon Clays for 38 special. I always seat to the cannelure. A good roll crimp should be used as well. That is what the cannelure is for.

 

[Odyssey]

Thanks. Got it. Seating to the cannelure, with this specific bullet, puts me a long way from the Max. C.O.L for 38 Special so, no issues there. I checked the brass and it does not exceed Max length either. I'll load up 10 and shoot 'em to be sure I like the combo (bullet weight, charge, powder, crimp depth) before investing in a larger qty. I appreciate you sharing your experience.

 

[jonbearman]

Seating to the cannelure should be fine. It isn't really necessary to do it as long as it is a revolver. I have a 45 auto with a 38 special conversion and you half to use double ended wad cutters seated to the edge of the case with a light crimp. You are fine. Just for curiosity what type of scale do you use?

 

[jk80]

I use a taper crimp on 38,9mm and 45 and don't worry about the Cannelure. Never had any problems. Just set it for proper oal.

 

[SSL]

All LRNFP bullets aren't created equal. The info on the Hodgdon site may not be identical for the design of the bullet you are seating. Differences in the diameter of the flat point on each bullet will ultimately affect the bullet length and therefore the COAL. Seat your bullets to the cannelure and make sure they don't extend out the front of your cylinder. Good to go.

 

[Odyssey]

Thanks to all. It makes sense to me now the COAL will vary depending on specific bullet mfr. as bullet shape/design will vary within the specific type, in this case LRNFP. I saw on the YouTube Acme tends to mold what some refer to as "short" bullets.
I am using two scales. I Lee balance and a National Metallic electronic. I am not impressed with variation I saw on the electronic. I used 3.5 grains TB behind 156 grain Berry's RN as my first reload. I weighed out each of the 500 rounds on the electronic because I didn't think TB would meter well through my Lee pro auto disk. The electronics seems to have a 10th grain +/- variation at best, likely more. I think the scale discussion should be a dedicated post. I plan to use the Lee pro auto disk on my classic turret for the aforementioned 125gn LRNFP 38 special with 3 grains 231. My only reason for using the 231 is that I have a good supply and found a recipe for this bullet on the Hodgdon site referencing 231.

 

[Odyssey]

All LRNFP bullets aren't created equal. The info on the Hodgdon site may not be identical for the design of the bullet you are seating. Differences in the diameter of the flat point on each bullet will ultimately affect the bullet length and therefore the COAL. Seat your bullets to the cannelure and make sure they don't extend out the front of your cylinder. Good to go.

 

[Odyssey]

SSL, You're explanation made it all make sense to me. Thanks.

 

[SSL]

SSL, You're explanation made it all make sense to me. Thanks.

I'm glad to help. Many times we get involved with offering too much information and the original question gets lost in the shuffle!

If your Lee Pro uses disks, throw them away and replace them with the Lee adjustable powder bar. For such a modest price - $8.99 at Midway - I think you will be much happier. The bar gives you infinite adjustment and lets you tweak it for precise drops rather than trying to select pre-drilled hoes that may or may not drop the exact charge you want. No substitute for bench rest grade measures, but certainly works well enough for handgun cartridges.

 

[Odyssey]

SSL, I saw that Lee adjustable powder bar when watching some YouTube reloading videos. It seemed like a good idea but, got bad reviews in the couple videos I watched. I'll check it out a bit more. Have you used it with TB powder? My reloading at this time is limited to 38 special and 45 colt. As a newbie reloader I like the idea if TB powder as it is easier to see the charge in the case. Using the 231 in the 38 special case at 3.8 grains was difficult to see down in the case and visually judge the charge. I saw videos that praised the Lee auto drum measures. Maybe these folks were getting kickbacks from Lee. Is the Lee drum really more repeatable than the pro auto disk. Your thoughts?
I shot some test rounds today with the Acme 125gr LRNFP's seated at the cannelure with 3.8gr 231. I fired them 1st out of my buddies 357 Blackhawk as I figure it's much stronger than my snub 38 special. They seemed surprisingly hot. As hot as some factory 156 gran LRN factory ammo. We alternated the reloads with the factory ammo in the cylinders of both guns and it was hard to distinguish any difference. I am thinking I want to back off a 1/2 grain to 3.0gr 231. Your thoughts?

 

[Dub]

231 is hot. TB is not as hot. I use Clays because it is mild in those calibers. Of course you have to be careful not to double charge

 

[SSL]

SSL, I saw that Lee adjustable powder bar when watching some YouTube reloading videos. It seemed like a good idea but, got bad reviews in the couple videos I watched. I'll check it out a bit more. Have you used it with TB powder? My reloading at this time is limited to 38 special and 45 colt. As a newbie reloader I like the idea if TB powder as it is easier to see the charge in the case. Using the 231 in the 38 special case at 3.8 grains was difficult to see down in the case and visually judge the charge. I saw videos that praised the Lee auto drum measures. Maybe these folks were getting kickbacks from Lee. Is the Lee drum really more repeatable than the pro auto disk. Your thoughts?
I shot some test rounds today with the Acme 125gr LRNFP's seated at the cannelure with 3.8gr 231. I fired them 1st out of my buddies 357 Blackhawk as I figure it's much stronger than my snub 38 special. They seemed surprisingly hot. As hot as some factory 156 gran LRN factory ammo. We alternated the reloads with the factory ammo in the cylinders of both guns and it was hard to distinguish any difference. I am thinking I want to back off a 1/2 grain to 3.0gr 231. Your thoughts?

The problem with the disks is that they offer an approximation of the weight of any powder on their list, but they can't be fine-tuned for exactly what you want. The bar can be adjusted for finite amounts. I have used both, but with all three of my progressive presses for handgun loading (Lee Loadmaster and two Pro 1000s) I now only use the charge bar. As for powders, I commonly use 2400, 296, Bullseye, Unique and CFE Pistol. All meter perfectly and accurately. I've never used TrailBoss, but see no reason it wouldn't work. Handgun loading doesn't require the .1-grain or less load accuracy we usually want to see in rifle loads. The bars work for my .38, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP and .45 Colt loads and turn out accurate ammunition. I won't go so far as saying that either the disk or the bar is less repeatable or trashing someone else's preference, but I've thrown all my disks away.

 

[Odyssey]

It seems 231 for 38 Special and 45 Colt may not have been the best choice. I could have used 2400 or Unique because I have both in my powder inventory but, I saw no load data in either 2400 or Unique for the 125gr LRNFP 38 Special in the three reloading books I have nor the Hodgdon site. Where do I go to locate these secret powder recipes?
I'm going to take SSL's suggestion and purchase the bar. At the low selling price there is little risk if I decide not to use it. I'll learn something in the process and I'm curious to evaluate for myself how well it meters TB powder.

 

[SSL]

I'm going to take SSL's suggestion and purchase the bar. At the low selling price there is little risk if I decide not to use it. I'll learn something in the process and I'm curious to evaluate for myself how well it meters TB powder.

While you are changing out to the bar and will have the hopper of anyway, slowly cycle your measure several times to see that the bar cavity completely passes over the dump hole on the measure. Years ago I had a problem with larger charges (such as 22 grains of 2400) being erratic. I traced it to the fact that the disks (all that was available at that time) did not always drop the measured amount. The disk cavities would sometimes not entirely line up with the dump hole, leaving a small amount of powder perched on the edge of the hole closest to the center of the measure. The cure was to carefully elongate the hole in the measure with a Cratex polishing tool. I reshaped the hole in the measure to an egg shape with the enlarged area towards the center of the measure. I made sure that the angle was generous for any size disk cavity, steep enough for good powder flow and polished it to a mirror finish. Problem went away because no matter how big the disk cavity used, it had no choice but to empty entirely. I contacted Lee about the issue at the time and haven't seen any new measures since then, so I don't know if that was ever addressed. All of my measures have been modified in this manner, so I don't know if the bar could have the same issue in an unmodified measure.

 

[Odyssey]

I spent some time at the loading bench today and discovered a couple things I felt should be included in this post to avoid spreading less than accurate info.
I learned that I had not calibrated the Lee balance scale correctly. Bottom line, my charge was higher than the 3.8 grains 231 powder I intended. When I properly zeroed the balance scale, I found the National Metallic electronic scale was dead on to the balance. I found a disk hole that dumps 3.7 grains of 231 consistently. I made up 15 rounds as follows: 3.7 grains 231, 125 gr Acme LRNFP, Federal primer #100, bullet seated at the cannelure which resulted in 1.360" COL. I'll shoot these tomorrow and see what we see.