A question for "case tarts" .....................

[Campbell]

I admit to being a case tart i.e. I like my cases clean and shiny.

I wet tumble my cases and they emerge from the tumbler nice and shiny. However after drying some of the cases have water-marks and discolouration.

Have you any tips to avoid post tumbling discolouration?

Many thanks

Cam

 

[NorCalMikie]

Dump them on a BIG towel. Roll them around to get the water off the outside of the cases. Stick them in the oven at low temp to finish drying. Works for me. YMMV.

 

[Paul Seaman]

A few percent of alcohol, cheap alcohol will make water wetter and it will sheet off better! Printing trick, 3-5% per gallon in a bucket and keep it for final rinse it will last a long time!

If you want to test me, do 50 cases in a quart of water with one oz of isopropyl alcohol. Then run them dry in the spinner to get all of the solution off. The higher the alcohol % the more the drying effect and faster the water sheets off!

 

[Mozella]

I shake mine in the big colander I use to separate the SS pins. Then I dump them into a bath towel, grab the ends to form a hammock shape, and roll the brass back and forth for 30 seconds or so. Then they go into a metal baking pan and onto the shoe rack inside my wife's clothes dryer for 30 minutes on high. I NEVER get a spot.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You want pretty or you want accurate? The SS pins remove the very important carbon layer in the neck. Other lubes do not equal the natural lube from firing. I would tumble in corn cob if you want shiny, then you will have the best of both worlds

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

I use lemi shine in the water I drop the cases into straight from the tumbler, pour out the rinse water and "fling" the water out of each. Then onto a towel with corners folded over for a rub.

 

[Sniper338]

Use distilled water instead of tap water in the tumbler, and rinse it all with distilled water upon coming out of the tumbler. Thats your fix.

However alex is right.. I had a chat with him about this a few weeks ago. My tumbler is now set to the side. Brush out the necks on fired brass with a nylon brush, whipe em with crazy kloth if you want em shined up. Keep that little layer of carbon in the neck... worked real well for me lately..

 

[GaryL1959]

You want pretty or you want accurate? The SS pins remove the very important carbon layer in the neck. Other lubes do not equal the natural lube from firing. I would tumble in corn cob if you want shiny, then you will have the best of both worlds

What he said ^^^

I was wet tumbling all brass, every firing, until i noticed velocity spreads and groups opening up, and variations in seating pressure. Like the clean primer pockets, but not the squeaky clean necks. Now I tumble for a few minutes in treated walnut shell before sizing, then a few more minutes in corncob after sizing to remove the lube. I reserve the SS pins and wet tumbling for seriously dirty range pickup brass or military pull-downs that have the asphalt sealant in the necks.

 

[Richard Coody]

You want pretty or you want accurate? The SS pins remove the very important carbon layer in the neck. Other lubes do not equal the natural lube from firing. I would tumble in corn cob if you want shiny, then you will have the best of both worlds

+1

what he said!

only use my ultrasonic when powder flakes start coming out in the tumbler. knowing i have to start all over building up the.carbon in the necks

 

[agr516]

I do not shoot any sort of competition but have stopped wet tumbling as well. In addition to the removal of the neck carbon mentioned previously was the peening of my case mouths. That, i did not care for. I lube with Redding Imperial and when i go to wipe the brass down, i do so with a cloth that has a shot of brake cleaner on it. Does a great job of removing the lube and cleans the outer brass as well. Not clean like wet tumbling but clean enough to suit me.

 

[rotts4u]

You want pretty or you want accurate? The SS pins remove the very important carbon layer in the neck. Other lubes do not equal the natural lube from firing. I would tumble in corn cob if you want shiny, then you will have the best of both worlds

Just when I thought I had everything figured out, now you throw me a curve ball. I have been SS Wet tumbling for a couple of years now and have not noted any increase in my ES or SD or group sizes etc as a result. I can see the point about carbon providing lubrication, but doesn't it also build up enough that it decreases the inside diameter of the necks, which increases neck tension? Until now I felt like having a consistent neck (clean and no build up) would be more consistent and delivery lower ES etc. I guess I will now have to run some tests on my own to satisfy my OCD that this is either right or wrong.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just when I thought I had everything figured out, now you throw me a curve ball. I have been SS Wet tumbling for a couple of years now and have not noted any increase in my ES or SD or group sizes etc as a result. I can see the point about carbon providing lubrication, but doesn't it also build up enough that it decreases the inside diameter of the necks, which increases neck tension? Until now I felt like having a consistent neck (clean and no build up) would be more consistent and delivery lower ES etc. I guess I will now have to run some tests on my own to satisfy my OCD that this is either right or wrong.

 

[Nature Boy]

I always clean my rifle cases with corn cob but recently started loading for 9mm so I invested in wet tumbling equipment, mainly because the range pick up is so dirty.

I decided to clean some .308 using the wet process, just to see if it made much of a difference.

1. As far as appearance goes, it's not measurably more shiny that using corn cob and a squirt of new finish.

2. It's more work.

3. I found some cases (4-5 per 100) with dents in the mouth.

4. I saw no difference in accuracy. The following was back to back 5 shot groups at 200 yards, wet on the left, dry on the right

Bottom line for me. Wet makes sense for pistol brass, but I'll be sticking to dry for rifle

 

[dkhunt14]

I do not shoot any sort of competition but have stopped wet tumbling as well. In addition to the removal of the neck carbon mentioned previously was the peening of my case mouths. That, i did not care for. I lube with Redding Imperial and when i go to wipe the brass down, i do so with a cloth that has a shot of brake cleaner on it. Does a great job of removing the lube and cleans the outer brass as well. Not clean like wet tumbling but clean enough to suit me.

If it is peening the mouths it is running to fast or you dont have enough pins in. My buddy does his Dashers and he gets no peening. He also shoots really good and won two gun shooter at Williamsport last year. We put stuff in the necks to keep them from welding and make easier seating. Matt

 

[Laurie]

You want pretty or you want accurate? The SS pins remove the very important carbon layer in the neck. Other lubes do not equal the natural lube from firing. I would tumble in corn cob if you want shiny, then you will have the best of both worlds

I've been having a similar conversation with others on this topic. One comment on a UK forum that struck me was that the individual making the post believed in 100% consistency in everything, every time .... so he couldn't live with various levels of carbon coating. (Not just in the neck, but in the case body interior.)

So far as the latter issue goes, there was an article in Precision Shooting years back looking at that with regard to the little 6PPC case. The conclusion was that carbon build-up inside the case is self-limiting, remains consistent, and that there is no reduction in case capacity or inconsistency thereof.

On necks, I've always been a follower of the light carbon film is better than bare metal view for various reasons - just using a stiff brush (the Forster Case Graphiter device less the supplied motor mica powder) to remove anything loose. I also had a box of Lapua (standard large primer case) 308 handloads using 155gn Scenars that I demilled a couple of years back and found around half had semi-welded themselves to the necks. I don't know why some did and some didn't, whether some cases were new, others not. So, having 115 Berger 155.5s left and enough IMR-8208 XBR to load up 100 rounds of my old FTR loading plus foulers, I've decided to put it to the test. Two times 50 round boxes, Lapua Palma brass twice fired half of each cleaned and loaded my usual way (carbon fouled); the other half taken down to clean metal using an industrial cleaning solution. Shoot box 1 lots side by side to compare groups, MVs, spreads etc. Box 2 loaded at the same time then left in the ammunition cabinet for six months to be tested as per box 1 in similar conditions to see the effects of leaving ammunition for a while on my usual prepared brass and also whether that affects clean metal to metal fit and bonding differently.

I plan to do the first test shortly in cool late summer / autumn conditions and repeat it next spring when temperatures return to similar levels. Both will be written up in Target Shooter online.

 

[Barlow]

I rarely (almost Never) use my vibratory case cleaner. I spin them with a drill and Sinclair holder and use Scotch Brite pads to polish them. Run a soft brush in the neck then size etc. I do not clean the inside of them. Barlow

 

[Texas10]

I would never discount the advise Alex gives, he knows what it takes to shoot one-hole groups day in and day out. Having said that, I will answer your question directly as I too like my brass shiny and bright, AND case necks that are carbon free. I figure if new off the shelf match ready ammo doesn't have dirty necks, it can't be too wrong to do the same in hand loading. And all my guns shoot 1/4 to 1/3 moa, not good enough to compete, but good enough for me, with the occasional group in the zeros being an excuse to post another target on the walls of my loading room.

I SS tumble in soap and Lemi Shine after annealing, rinse and blow dry using compressed air. To remove any trace of water, I put the freshly cleaned cases in a small cardboard box with two, 2 inch hole in opposite sides. I stuff a hair dryer in one hole and run it on low for 5 minutes. That'll get the brass up to about 170 degrees F and that'll take care of any residual moisture. Never block the exit hole in the box, you'll melt the hair dryer.

Another idea, and I will say that I have not tried this yet, is to add a little dishwasher "rinse aid" liquid such as Jet Dry or Cascade Platinum to your rinse water to eliminate water spots.

In my hometown, the tap water is not particularly hard, or soft, so blow drying works best and cheapest. I intend to try the rinse aid in the near future, just for gits and shiggles.

As for peening case mouths, reduce the number of cases in the batch, and increase media. Cases should not be impacting cases during tumble. They should be cushioned by the media and what's happening is the media is moving into the cases, reducing the amount needed to cushion the tumble.

I hope this helps.

 

[Campbell]

Many thanks to you all!

As usual, your answers are thought-provoking.

I find 2 points especially interesting: a) the lube effect of carbon within the neck and that it is deemed to be self-limiting and, b) the peening effect of s/s tumbling on the neck.

Could the peening of the case neck ends have any adverse effect on accuracy?

Suppose I ditched the s/s tumbling, what would you recommend for primer pocket cleaning, a brush?

Thanks again!

Cam

 

[Rsadams]

I have a thumbler wet tumbler system I don't notice dinged case mouths etc.. But I have to admit I just run everything in walnut shell vibration tumbler... It has to be nasty for me to break out the wet tumbler.. It works really well for pistol brass but I to have fell in with the carbon in the necks crowd especially for long term storage to keep from getting the bullet neck welds you hear about..

I don't know for sure about that but I know I have shot some real OLD factory ammo with no problems but of course not for accuracy.. I just find it a pain to mess with the wet tumbler all the time even for the better job it does...

 

[Sheldon N]

Suppose I ditched the s/s tumbling, what would you recommend for primer pocket cleaning, a brush?

I use a Lyman case prep center. Primer pocket cleaner, light champfer + deburr and neck brush every firing. Goes fast, maybe 7 minutes for 100 cases.

If you want really shiny brass with corn cob media, put a squirt of car wax in and glob in a fingertip full of metal polish like Mothers Wheel polish. That will give you some seriously bright polished cases.