Dusty Stevens
Shiner
338 federal is a 308 case. Hes talking about a 338-06 a square. Its a 30-06 case
A fun thread, what wildcat do YOU wish was mainstream
- Thread starter Trashy
- Start date
Trashy -
Howdy !
I will try to make multiple responses to some wildcat ideas that have been expressed her..... plus perhaps a few more wildcat ideas.
As regards your thoughts on 10mm-based wildcats:
I have done a variety of wildcat case forming on the .35 Remington case.
If you cut that case off right @ the body/shoulder juncture, you’ll find internal case diam to be .40”. ( Remington brand .35 Remington case fired in a Marlin M-336 XLR ).
That case ID is maintained all the way down to about .125” above the Webb, where it enlarges slightly to .405”. Viable 10mm calibre wildcats
could be formed of varying case oal... from rifle/carbine capacities on down to handgun compatible cases.
I have case formed .40” cal wildcats on .35 Rem basic that have case capacity > 10mm Auto. The case rim does work w/ -06 bolt face diam.
I have formed what is basically a rimless version of the .357 B & D , using the .35 Rem and a .358 Win. FL die as the case forming die.
Also wanted to mention.....
I have used a 6mm Remington die and a “
erch “, to form shortened
.35 Remington brass down to a new 6mm wildcat I call “6 PAC” .
This wildcat features case capacity between 6PPC and 6BR, an easy forming 26* shoulder angle; and long neck.
What’s great about 6PAC besides it’s taylored case capacity, is that a chamber can be cut using a stock 6mm Rem reamer ( no custom reamer needed ), and can be loaded / re-loaded using existing ( non custom )
6mm Rem dies.
*** I am shooting a varmint/ target rifle that has a 6mm wildcat chamber of my own design...... that is cut by running a 6mm Remington reamer in
“ short “; for a nominal .466” base diam. I will describe that wildcat ( I call “DEEP 6 “) later.
Another idea is .22 Jet necked-up a tad to true .224” calibre.
Better bullet choices available, then.
I have other ideas I will address to other posters.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I will try to make multiple responses to some wildcat ideas that have been expressed her..... plus perhaps a few more wildcat ideas.
As regards your thoughts on 10mm-based wildcats:
I have done a variety of wildcat case forming on the .35 Remington case.
If you cut that case off right @ the body/shoulder juncture, you’ll find internal case diam to be .40”. ( Remington brand .35 Remington case fired in a Marlin M-336 XLR ).
That case ID is maintained all the way down to about .125” above the Webb, where it enlarges slightly to .405”. Viable 10mm calibre wildcats
could be formed of varying case oal... from rifle/carbine capacities on down to handgun compatible cases.
I have case formed .40” cal wildcats on .35 Rem basic that have case capacity > 10mm Auto. The case rim does work w/ -06 bolt face diam.
I have formed what is basically a rimless version of the .357 B & D , using the .35 Rem and a .358 Win. FL die as the case forming die.
Also wanted to mention.....
I have used a 6mm Remington die and a “
erch “, to form shortened .35 Remington brass down to a new 6mm wildcat I call “6 PAC” .
This wildcat features case capacity between 6PPC and 6BR, an easy forming 26* shoulder angle; and long neck.
What’s great about 6PAC besides it’s taylored case capacity, is that a chamber can be cut using a stock 6mm Rem reamer ( no custom reamer needed ), and can be loaded / re-loaded using existing ( non custom )
6mm Rem dies.
*** I am shooting a varmint/ target rifle that has a 6mm wildcat chamber of my own design...... that is cut by running a 6mm Remington reamer in
“ short “; for a nominal .466” base diam. I will describe that wildcat ( I call “DEEP 6 “) later.
Another idea is .22 Jet necked-up a tad to true .224” calibre.
Better bullet choices available, then.
I have other ideas I will address to other posters.
With regards,
357Mag
Believe it was called a .222 Super. I have an example in my collection.
Not true wildcats but I would like to see the 256, 30, and 35 Newton cartridges brought back. Over 100 years old, these cartridges are still great designs and great performers. If Winchester had chosen to chamber the 30 in the Model 70, there would have been no need to open up (weaken) the action to handle the 300 H&H. Newton made a 375 too.; a lot like the 375 Ruger, of course. WH
-Al
Dusty the 5.7-28 has a case cap of 13.9 on what looks to me like a 25 ACP case. Most say it is so small that it is almost un reloadable cause the primer pockets get loose from lack of metal to hold the pressure. The 22TCM is made out of a 223 case and is proven to hold max pressure in modern rifles. It has a case cap of 15.2. It is reported to be faster than a hornet. My friend on another forum has a 17TCM and a 20TCMand loves them both. Yes I too am not sold on the crude looking rifle Rock Island put out ( have never seen one in the flesh) but if 22LR and 22mag go away for any length of time I am going to build a 22TCM on a small CZ or Interarms action.
Depending on the length of the case you're creating, we had a version which was made by running the 6mm Remington reamer in 'short'. Years ago it was named:
6mm INTERNATIONAL (WALKER VERSION)
American wildcatters began fiddling with the 6mm's after WW2. This is one of several versions that exist of these experiments and were popular with Bench Rest shooters. Based on the 250 Savage necked down, but differs from the Donaldson version as it retains the original length but with a longer neck and the body taper the same as the original 250 Savage.
6mm INTERNATIONAL (DONALDSON VERSION)
Harvey Donaldson of Fultonville NY is regarded as one of the fathers of modern bench rest shooting. This is one of several versions based on the 250 Savage case. The Donaldson version has a ¼" shortened case with the shoulder pushed back.
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Lee in a Texas -
Howdy !
I did some math and sample .224” cal wildcat case forming.
Want to see how close to 52gr case capacity I can get, using 9.3x62 as parent brass ; and keeping case oal to < 1.920” .
52gr is a pretty healthy H2O capacity for a .224” cal cartridge , w/o being as “ over bore “ as larger capacity wildcats; like .22-6mm Remington.
An example .223WSSM case, while only 1.670” long; requires base and shoulder diameters of more than .540” to realize a case capacity of 52gr H2O. So, what capacity is possible.... forming from 9.3 x 62 basic, and
exploiting shoulder diameter to get maximum capacity w/ a case 1.910” lg?
Sample wildcat cases I trial formed showed that with an unfired base diam of .474”, shoulder diam of .464”; 26* shoulder angle, and one calibre neck lg; it would take a case 1.950” to hold 45.5gr of trial IMR 4955 powder.
A .223WSSM used as a standard for comparison, can hold and safely shoot larger wt charges of slightly faster burn rate H4831 and HV100
powders. Conclusion: No...... you can’t get 52gr H2O capacity in a case 1.910”lg..... and w/ .010” case taper; when forming from 9.3 x 62.
I appreciate that 6.5 X 55 has a more-generous base diam than does 9.3x62, but I intended to go w/ a .473” base diam; and the Swedish case is larger in diam.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I did some math and sample .224” cal wildcat case forming.
Want to see how close to 52gr case capacity I can get, using 9.3x62 as parent brass ; and keeping case oal to < 1.920” .
52gr is a pretty healthy H2O capacity for a .224” cal cartridge , w/o being as “ over bore “ as larger capacity wildcats; like .22-6mm Remington.
An example .223WSSM case, while only 1.670” long; requires base and shoulder diameters of more than .540” to realize a case capacity of 52gr H2O. So, what capacity is possible.... forming from 9.3 x 62 basic, and
exploiting shoulder diameter to get maximum capacity w/ a case 1.910” lg?
Sample wildcat cases I trial formed showed that with an unfired base diam of .474”, shoulder diam of .464”; 26* shoulder angle, and one calibre neck lg; it would take a case 1.950” to hold 45.5gr of trial IMR 4955 powder.
A .223WSSM used as a standard for comparison, can hold and safely shoot larger wt charges of slightly faster burn rate H4831 and HV100
powders. Conclusion: No...... you can’t get 52gr H2O capacity in a case 1.910”lg..... and w/ .010” case taper; when forming from 9.3 x 62.
I appreciate that 6.5 X 55 has a more-generous base diam than does 9.3x62, but I intended to go w/ a .473” base diam; and the Swedish case is larger in diam.
With regards,
357Mag
Your 40 cal rimmed sounds similar to the 400 HertersTrashy -
Howdy !
I will try to make multiple responses to some wildcat ideas that have been expressed her..... plus perhaps a few more wildcat ideas.
As regards your thoughts on 10mm-based wildcats:
I have done a variety of wildcat case forming on the .35 Remington case.
If you cut that case off right @ the body/shoulder juncture, you’ll find internal case diam to be .40”. ( Remington brand .35 Remington case fired in a Marlin M-336 XLR ).
That case ID is maintained all the way down to about .125” above the Webb, where it enlarges slightly to .405”. Viable 10mm calibre wildcats
could be formed of varying case oal... from rifle/carbine capacities on down to handgun compatible cases.
I have case formed .40” cal wildcats on .35 Rem basic that have case capacity > 10mm Auto. The case rim does work w/ -06 bolt face diam.
I have formed what is basically a rimless version of the .357 B & D , using the .35 Rem and a .358 Win. FL die as the case forming die.
Also wanted to mention.....
I have used a 6mm Remington die and a “
.35 Remington brass down to a new 6mm wildcat I call “6 PAC” .
This wildcat features case capacity between 6PPC and 6BR, an easy forming 26* shoulder angle; and long neck.
What’s great about 6PAC besides it’s taylored case capacity, is that a chamber can be cut using a stock 6mm Rem reamer ( no custom reamer needed ), and can be loaded / re-loaded using existing ( non custom )
6mm Rem dies.
*** I am shooting a varmint/ target rifle that has a 6mm wildcat chamber of my own design...... that is cut by running a 6mm Remington reamer in
“ short “; for a nominal .466” base diam. I will describe that wildcat ( I call “DEEP 6 “) later.
Another idea is .22 Jet necked-up a tad to true .224” calibre.
Better bullet choices available, then.
I have other ideas I will address to other posters.
With regards,
357Mag
Kurtz -
Howdy !
I was going to describe my “DEEP 6 “ wildcat In a post response later on today, but ......guess now’z as good a time as any.....
“DEEP 6” is my self-designed wildcat, for a dual-role’ varmint/target cartridge; capable of 1,000yd use in either discipline.....a primary goal for for the project. The intended varmint application would be for use on groundhogs, w/ use on PDs being an additional eventuality.
Another of the projects goals was to avoid excess costs, by using an existing chamber reamer run in “ short “ ( no custom reamer ) to create the new wildcat’s chamber. I also wanted to load/re-load the wildcat cases using existing ( non custom ) dies.
DEEP 6’ chamber is cut by running a 6mm Remington reamer in short for a nominal .466” base diam, w/ an resulting case oal shorter than the 6mm Remington. 7X64 Brenneke is utilized as the parent case. It is .308 bolt face compatible rimless, and is one of the Euro-spec cases SAAMI maintains dimension data on. I use Norma brand brass.
DEEP 6 has 51.2gr H2O case capacity. Compare to 6x47L and 6XC @ around 49-50gr, .243Win @ 54gr; 6mm Rem @ 55gr H2O.
DEEP 6 is a tad longer than a .243Win, a result of its .333” lg VLD- friendly neck. This is just fine for use in my rifle and my shooting needs, which uses a Wichita WBR1375 single shot benchrest action for both varmint and target work.
DEEP 6 cases are formed using a stock ( LEE ) 6.5 X 55 FL die, that has its internals removed; to make the die open-topped. I also use a “ perch “ made from a .308 shell holder, a 1/4-20 flat head machine screw w/ head diam < .466”; and a 1/4-20 lock nut. The perch is positioned in the press’ ram primer rod slot.
Brass to be formed is placed on the perch, and press handle operated to advance brass up into the form die. As shoulder is shoved downward on the 7 X 64 case, excess brass extrudes out of the open topped die in
“ stove pipe “ fashion. Cases drop for the die w/ a slight tap of a deprime rod, and emerge from the die in near net shape.
As-formed, cases start out w/ a .22 cal neck ID. They are rough cutoff for lg, then detail trimmed to final case oal. Cases are given an inside neck ream, and outside neck turn; to arrive @ final calibre and neck wall thickness desired.
I load/re-load DEEP. 6 cases using non-custom 6mm Remington dies
( Hornady universal style bullet seater, and their 6mm Rem shoulder bump/ bushing NS die. I have also used a LEE mandrel type 6mm Rem neck sizer die ).
DEEP 6 has met and even exceeded my project expectations !
I had my 29” SS Broughton 1-8 “ 5C- rifled “ barrel set up for shooting 6mm 95 VLDs; while,still maintaining ability to shoot 105-108gr bullets.
I can very nearly fill the case w/ RL-22, and get superb accuracy w/ safe pressure. I can completely fill the case w/ IMR7828, and obtain almost as good accuracy as I did shooting RL-22. Recent range testing has included RL-23 and RL-26 loads, w/ RL-25 another powder I intend to try.
I am also shooting Sierra 95 T-Mk, and FED Large Magnum Rifle Match.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I was going to describe my “DEEP 6 “ wildcat In a post response later on today, but ......guess now’z as good a time as any.....
“DEEP 6” is my self-designed wildcat, for a dual-role’ varmint/target cartridge; capable of 1,000yd use in either discipline.....a primary goal for for the project. The intended varmint application would be for use on groundhogs, w/ use on PDs being an additional eventuality.
Another of the projects goals was to avoid excess costs, by using an existing chamber reamer run in “ short “ ( no custom reamer ) to create the new wildcat’s chamber. I also wanted to load/re-load the wildcat cases using existing ( non custom ) dies.
DEEP 6’ chamber is cut by running a 6mm Remington reamer in short for a nominal .466” base diam, w/ an resulting case oal shorter than the 6mm Remington. 7X64 Brenneke is utilized as the parent case. It is .308 bolt face compatible rimless, and is one of the Euro-spec cases SAAMI maintains dimension data on. I use Norma brand brass.
DEEP 6 has 51.2gr H2O case capacity. Compare to 6x47L and 6XC @ around 49-50gr, .243Win @ 54gr; 6mm Rem @ 55gr H2O.
DEEP 6 is a tad longer than a .243Win, a result of its .333” lg VLD- friendly neck. This is just fine for use in my rifle and my shooting needs, which uses a Wichita WBR1375 single shot benchrest action for both varmint and target work.
DEEP 6 cases are formed using a stock ( LEE ) 6.5 X 55 FL die, that has its internals removed; to make the die open-topped. I also use a “ perch “ made from a .308 shell holder, a 1/4-20 flat head machine screw w/ head diam < .466”; and a 1/4-20 lock nut. The perch is positioned in the press’ ram primer rod slot.
Brass to be formed is placed on the perch, and press handle operated to advance brass up into the form die. As shoulder is shoved downward on the 7 X 64 case, excess brass extrudes out of the open topped die in
“ stove pipe “ fashion. Cases drop for the die w/ a slight tap of a deprime rod, and emerge from the die in near net shape.
As-formed, cases start out w/ a .22 cal neck ID. They are rough cutoff for lg, then detail trimmed to final case oal. Cases are given an inside neck ream, and outside neck turn; to arrive @ final calibre and neck wall thickness desired.
I load/re-load DEEP. 6 cases using non-custom 6mm Remington dies
( Hornady universal style bullet seater, and their 6mm Rem shoulder bump/ bushing NS die. I have also used a LEE mandrel type 6mm Rem neck sizer die ).
DEEP 6 has met and even exceeded my project expectations !
I had my 29” SS Broughton 1-8 “ 5C- rifled “ barrel set up for shooting 6mm 95 VLDs; while,still maintaining ability to shoot 105-108gr bullets.
I can very nearly fill the case w/ RL-22, and get superb accuracy w/ safe pressure. I can completely fill the case w/ IMR7828, and obtain almost as good accuracy as I did shooting RL-22. Recent range testing has included RL-23 and RL-26 loads, w/ RL-25 another powder I intend to try.
I am also shooting Sierra 95 T-Mk, and FED Large Magnum Rifle Match.
With regards,
357Mag
old leghumper
Silver $$ Contributor
6x47 Lapua
Don't know about "mainstream" but as an experienced amateur Mosin tinkerer, I've been kicking around the idea of re barreling one with a 6mm tube and using .307 Win brass to form down to some .243 chambering. I would think if it was planned out right, a guy could set it up so that stock reloading components could be used. I can't imagine the heads that would be turned by a 28/76 in 6mm Creedmoor rimmed!
RWH -
Howdy !
I did trial case forming using fore-shortened .35 Remington brass, for a new 6mm wildcat w/ case capacity between that of a 6PPC and a 6BR.
To help control project costs, I wanted to wildcat using non-custom dies for case forming; and for case loading/re-loading. I case formed using a stock
6.5 X55 Swedish (FL die that has its internals removed to make the die open topped.
Another goal was that the wildcat chamber could be cut using an existing chamber reamer ( non-custom ), to also help control project costs.
Case forming was much easier when I started out by first annealing the
( already fired several times ) .35 Rem cases. I placed the brass on a perch made from a .308 shellholder, a 1/4-20 flat head w/ head diam
< .452”; and a 1/4-20 lock nut. Brass to be formed is placed atop the perch, and press handle operated to advance the .35 Rem brass up into the form die. After a tap to remove cases from the die, they are cut to final case oal desired, inside neck reamed and outside neck turned to final 6mm calibre and neck wall thickness desired.
The new wildcat I provisionally called “ 6PAC “, and it has the same long neck a 6mm Rem has. Yeas it is LR primed, but that is not in itself a death sentence on obtainable accuracy. Heck...... my first .22BR cases were LR primed, until the SR primed cases eventually showed up.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I did trial case forming using fore-shortened .35 Remington brass, for a new 6mm wildcat w/ case capacity between that of a 6PPC and a 6BR.
To help control project costs, I wanted to wildcat using non-custom dies for case forming; and for case loading/re-loading. I case formed using a stock
6.5 X55 Swedish (FL die that has its internals removed to make the die open topped.
Another goal was that the wildcat chamber could be cut using an existing chamber reamer ( non-custom ), to also help control project costs.
Case forming was much easier when I started out by first annealing the
( already fired several times ) .35 Rem cases. I placed the brass on a perch made from a .308 shellholder, a 1/4-20 flat head w/ head diam
< .452”; and a 1/4-20 lock nut. Brass to be formed is placed atop the perch, and press handle operated to advance the .35 Rem brass up into the form die. After a tap to remove cases from the die, they are cut to final case oal desired, inside neck reamed and outside neck turned to final 6mm calibre and neck wall thickness desired.
The new wildcat I provisionally called “ 6PAC “, and it has the same long neck a 6mm Rem has. Yeas it is LR primed, but that is not in itself a death sentence on obtainable accuracy. Heck...... my first .22BR cases were LR primed, until the SR primed cases eventually showed up.
With regards,
357Mag
6mm TCU, .25 TCU & or 6.5 TCU (can you tell I'm a contender fan?). .375 JDJ too.
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