A different perspective on the F-class National Match

[kyreloader]

Being a long time reader and poster to this site, I wanted to give my perspective and experience at the F-class National matches at Lodi, WI this past week. So as not to make this post too long, I will just give my pros and cons of my experience.

Pros:
1. the range was nice, the line was smooth and the target frames were easy to score/mark/pull
2. ability to shoot right beside the best shooters in the country/world
3. the other shooters were all nice and cordial, nice telling stories in the pits and hearing about their lives

Cons:
1. No signage for the range-one small sign at entrance to club but otherwise-nada, no signs stating F-class National Championship
2. Lack of organization to sign in. There were no signs upon arrival on Monday as to weigh-in, where to register, anything. There was a sign on the stat office door saying registration, but nothing upon entrance of building as to where to go or how to proceed. Luckily, we just fell in line and asked people and some knew the drill. Most people that I asked, knew no more than I did and were as lost as to the process.
3. Practice day- no announcements were made regarding if/when we were going to try to get in the practice shoot. I left thinking it wasnt going to happen. I luckily called the range back and was told that they were going to try to get the shoot in at 11:30 for those interested.
4. Roll call- I guess I should say lack of roll-call on Tuesday morning. 7:30 was supposed to be roll-call. It was 8:30 and we had not decided what was going on and had not began shooting. This may be par for the course, but I expected the shoot to be a fine oiled machine at the "National" championship. I spoke with a couple shooters from England and they too were disappointed with the organization of the shoot.
5. Paid target pullers- I personally believe that every shooter should have had a target puller or no shooters should have had a target puller. I believe that pulling targets gives an unfair advantage to persons not pulling targets. The people pulling had the ability to sit and watch the wind all day and see what differing winds were doing to shooters in real time. Also, the fact is, pulling targets is a physical endeavor. Again, the physicality of pulling targets gives the advantage to the non-pullers. People will argue that all you had to do was pay someone to pull for you, but again, not every line had a puller, so people not affiliated with the range or part of the club were unable to get pullers. One shooter had to get moved from his squadded position due to a target puller needing to be on a different target. He had already set up all his equipment for his squadded line, but was switched from line, but also relay and had to shoot first. I think each shooter should pay more for registration and have paid pullers, or every shooter should have to pull targets. I personally feel like pulling targets is part of the deal, so would like to see everyone have to pull, but I would not be opposed to watching everyone shoot.
6. The pits- I am a man and I expect to be talked to like a man. The person running the pits for the week is an azzhole. He speaks to all shooters as if they have never pulled targets before and speaks down to everyone. Why does he need to speak to grown men/women as if they are children? I didn't get any of his crap, but man did he make the pits a miserable couple hours. I pulled one day with an Englishman would could not believe his rudeness. I felt as if he was a black eye for our "National Championship".
7. When to bring rifles to the line. That seemed to change from time to time, there was no consistency on when rifles were allowed to be brought forward. Multiple shooter that I talked to shared my frustration on when rifles were allowed.

I was pleased with the experience of shooting at our national match and plan to shoot again next year I hope. I was just disappointed with the experience of the other aspects of our Championship. I was hoping to see vendors at the championship and was disappointed that few were present. I expected the National Championship to have run much smoother. The club matches that I shoot in actually run much smoother than our championship. The volume of shooters makes this fluidity much harder, but not that bad.

Again, my experience was positive for the week and I plan to shoot again in our national championship.

Flame suit is on.

 

[Heavies]

I agree with what you have said. Our club F-class matches are very similar to the experience you have encountered. Our club caters to mostly High power competitors and F-class as a second thought (even though the bulk of shooters in the club have been shooting f-class ). Folks running the club don't seem to care much for us f-classers, and don't care to learn the rules for matches, correct targets to erect, etc. Paid pullers are rarely brought out for the f-class comps, but many for HP comps. Constant BS talking about using scopes and how 'easy' it is. ???(even though they have never tried it, to realize hitting that 1MOA 10;1/2MOA X isn't as easy as it looks) It is kind of irritating, but it is the only place for us F-classers to shoot out here, so I just have to grin and bear it. ;D

 

[effendude]

I have never been to a match with paid pit service, but I would liken it to some golfers riding in a cart while others walked the course. I don't golf, but I understand this is why the PGA requires all to walk the course. It should be the same for all competitors.
Scott

 

[Erik Cortina]

If paid pullers provide an advantage, I bet the top 10 all had paid pullers. ;D

 

[morpheus]

Given the physical infirmities of some of the older shooters, should they no longer be invited to participate in the National matches since they can't pull targets? I for one was impressed with the shooting ability of many of those who overcame physical challenges, some as a result of military service to our nation.

Also, I was there and for reference, not all of the top 10 shooters in either category had paid target pullers.

 

[BobLor]

I would agree some signs would have helped "first timers" to find the range and the registration and weigh in location.

On Monday morning I heard the Match Director tell us to be back and they would try to run the practice at 11:30 am.

I thought the pit boss and helper did fine, he only chastised the target pullers who deserved it. It is all too easy when down in the pits to start telling stories and not pay attention to pulling. Using a bus to take us to the pits is a great idea too. Wish we would have had that available at Butner back in 2009.

paid pit pullers, guess I don't care one way or the other, and yep I did do two days of six straight pulls in the pits.

Bringing your rifle to the line, during my shooting relays I only remember one time that there was some confusion. I always had more than enough time to get all may gear and rifle set up. Then again I shoot F tr, I have a feeling you shoot F open and I assume setting up the rest and rifle takes a bit more time than using a bipod equiped rifle.

Maybe everything was not perfect but I was very satisified with the 2011 F Nationals and look forward to when they will be back to Wisconsin.


Bob L.

 

[Ringostar]

People have different perspective on things. There was a large lighted sign marking the entrance to the club. Maybe arrows pointing the direction from there might have helped. There are signs to, and where the stat office is located. Most people understand thats where to check in. With all the people and vehicles anyone could miss them with the excitement and bad weather. I think that the weather was a factor. So many shooters packed into the building, staying out of the rain. The radar and weather weren't good, they couldn't tell for hours whether there would be a chance for practice. Roll call was late the first day because they waited for shooters coming late, or not showing at all. If you preregistered and can't make it, then let the staff know ahead. There were shooters on a waiting list that could have filled the openings. I dont have a problem with paid pullers. If senior shooters want to pay someone thats fine. Sitting back and watching others shoot doesn't help everything. You have know idea where they might hold off to. Rifles to the line was easy for most. You could bring your gear, except rifle. When your shooting position opened. Once the previous line was complete, you could bring your rifle up. Unless there was a pit change happening. Then no rifles were allowed at the line.

 

[Jim See]

Johnny was running the pits and Johnny can be abrasive, but he usually runs the line and when he is on the line it runs his way, which can give you the impression that he is a serious hard ass. Which he can be when people don't listen or do something unsafe or stupid.

When Johnny runs the line there are NO rifles brought to the line until prep period, regardless of pit changes, if you do it once and listen you just get a scolding. If you do it twice in the same day your gone.

I fully appreciate what this man does, his job is thankless and sucks, no one likes to be the hard ass.

I feel 100% safe with him running the line or the pits, I have been to other ranges where you walk in and out of the pits, I have arrived at the line to have a half dozen rifles pointing directly down range at the pullers walking down the range, that feeling kinda sucks, regardless of chamber flags, there are too many new guys coming to matches who don't know all the safety aspects, or are nervous/forgetful. Preventing a problem before it happens is #1.

I do sympathize with a new shooter coming to Lodi, It can be a rude awakening. I hope you decide to shoot there again.

 

[RDavies]

From an Australian perspective, it seems strange that shooters have to pull targets at a National Championship. Over here, we have plenty of older or disabled shooters who can keep shooting well for a few more years, but are physicly unable to pull targets. Every prize shoot here from small regional shoots, to the Nationals have paid markers (unless they are using electronic targets). The benefits are that the small amount of money goes to boy scouts, girl guides and various other childrens groups to help them raise funds (or just pocket money for kids themselves). A side benefit, is that having a bunch of kids in the pits, exposes them to shooting sports. Where else would most of these kids seen anything to do with guns apart from crime shows on TV.

 

[Ont0001]

RE: #5 Target pullers.....
Here in Canada we run F Class matches with paid markers.It makes my competing possible.
Thankfully there were paid markers available at the Nats, as I am one of those disabled shooters who would not be able to compete had a paid marker not been available.
Since the target marker was already pulling on my target ,it made sense for the other shooters (non disabled) on my target to support the target puller by paying him as well.
I'm sorry if you feel slighted or disadvantaged that there were not enough target pullers for you to hire or that you were unfortunate not to have a disabled shooter on your squad.
Perhaps the next revisit to the Nationals, you might consider asking for a target puller in advance if warranted.
Thanks
Gord O
and generally I would think "suggestions for improvement" be directed to the
Match Organizers for future reference and consideration.Hopefully you will write them directly .

 

[Steve Blair]

All competitors pull at our club matches but everyone had paid pullers for the August 20-21 Regional Mid-Range. The young Marines that pulled for us did a great job and it made the two days much easier for everyone, including two competitors with special needs. The pullers were paid from entry fees and no additional charge was necessary. It seems to me that a national championship match should arrange pullers as part of the fee and level the field for all shooters.

We also shoot under some restrictions as our two ranges are on Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton. Our RSOs must complete Marine range safety training and the matches are run fairly tight. While there are sometimes a few grumbles, it does not seem to inhibit our ability to compete. Better a bit of discipline than a tragedy.

 

[effendude]

Let me clarify my position. If pit service is available to all competitors, and some choose not to pay for the service, that is their decision. I never want to discourage participation in an event. One of the shooters in my league is a former National Match national champion who just turned 87 a couple weeks ago. He never does pit service, when some whine about it, I simply say he has earned the right to not do pits.

As for volunteers being hard a**es, range safety comes first, despite peoples sensitive feelings. They have volunteered to work a match so you can shoot. Oh, I don't alow any rifles to the line until prep starts and the pits are sealed. Safety first.
Scott

 

[Taildrag15X]

I have been on only one end of this stick for the past 34+ years and it's been the end in the pits pulling Targets, just how I grew up doing it shooting High Power, if you couldn't do pit service you couldn't shoot, period!

Now that I'm up in years, broken, bent and have special needs I still pull, even at a State Match I pulled for 3 Targets at once because the competitors on each side wouldn't/couldn't do it and the CRSO catered to them. I wasn't alone on this as down the line in the pits most of the Targets were doubled up with 2 of us doing triple duty, and each year it seems to be getting worse for this.

Was my performance hindered, I'll never know as I have never not pulled to do my part in a Tournament as a Competitor, BTW the US F-Open Team Captain Brian O. was squaded on the same Target as I and he also managed to get the job done in the pits!

I would support for all to have paid pullers supplied by the Range/Club for all, covered in the Match Fees, that's each and every Competitor, if not then there should be none so that we can get back to the fundamentals of the Game in which we all share Pit Duty.

For those of you that are going to whine, see your Doctors and start writting your letters to the NRA per the HP Rule Book:

"Disabled competitors may apply to the NRA Protest Committee for appropriate dispensation."

 

[rpierce]

#2. No signs pointing where to sign in. The building is not very big. 20x30 maybe. There is one office in it with the rest of the space occupied by barrels and other stuff, and a scale by the way. I dont see how you couldnt figure out where to sign in and weigh your stuff. I do agree with you on that their should of been some bigger signs telling where the range is for people that have never been there.
#3 I think you forgot to mention that the weather was crappy. I think weather played a huge factor in how smoothly the match was run and how the practice day played out. We had rain delays almost everyday. The wind blew a target off the frame. You must of left before they said be back at 11:30. How is it their fault. Should they call up everybody that left early to tell them to be their at 11:30? ;D

 

[Ont0001]

Taildrag15X
Mike,
Just to clarify your position, you are suggesting that for F Class shooting events, if a shooter cannot pull targets/ do butt duty, regardless of disability, they should be banned from competitions??
Gord

 

[Taildrag15X]

Taildrag15X
Mike,
Just to clarify your position, you are suggesting that for F Class shooting events, if a shooter cannot pull targets/ do butt duty, regardless of disability, they should be banned from competitions??
Gord

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BANNING ANYONE, if you are physical unable or willing to do pit duty, get a letter from the NRA Disability Office.

I'd support, as I said in my post, "I would support for all to have paid pullers supplied by the Range/Club, covered in the Match Fees, that's each and every Competitor, if not then there should be none so that we can get back to the fundamentals of the Game in which we all share Pit Duty" for any NRA Approved, Registered, Regional, State, National, or World Competition.......make it fair accross the board.

If a bent/broken guy with a cain like me can handly double/triple target duty in the pits then all should try instead of only wanting to show up, shoot and leave.

 

[FTRinTexas]

It appears to be a real simple question: does not pulling targets, give you an advantage over a person who pulls targets?

I was at Lodi, pulled targets and had an enjoyable time for the most part. The negatives were the rain and the pit king.

 

[TonyR]

A half dozen or more people gave up about a week of their time so that the rest of us could shoot. Many thanks to every one of them.

 

[Erik Cortina]

If we all had target pullers someone would complain that their puller was slower than the rest, or too fast, or too tall, or too skinny! You get the point.

You never hear the guy that wins complain about anything, do you? ;D

 

[Taildrag15X]

If we all had target pullers someone would complain that their puller was slower than the rest, or too fast, or too tall, or too skinny! You get the point.

You never hear the guy that wins complain about anything, do you? ;D

The ugly truth about bringing your own puller is he's there for you, and could pad the score in your favor, I've seen it first hand.