7x61 S&H Loads with Modern Powders

[South Pender]

Can anyone point me to some loading data for the 7x61 S&H with modern powders? I have older data from several sources, but the powders included are the oldies--IMR4350, H4831, etc. Are there some more recent sources that would include the Alliant and Vihtavuori powders and possibly other newer ones?

 

[Ramblerman]

Can anyone point me to some loading data for the 7x61 S&H with modern powders? I have older data from several sources, but the powders included are the oldies--IMR4350, H4831, etc. Are there some more recent sources that would include the Alliant and Vihtavuori powders and possibly other newer ones?

Compare 7 Rem Mag data with the newer powders vs old as a reference as they compare to your S&H...then correlate that and work up. That's what I do, just...work up!

 

[watercam]

I believe the Hornady Manual has data for that cartridge.

 

[Kurz]

South Pender,

I have an original Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL in 7x61 Super S&H. The cartridge is capable of excellent performance and was not difficult to tune. My preferred powders are:

Norma MRP
Reloder 25 (now Re-26 is a better choice)
VVN-560

The bullet I was using the most was the 162 AMAX but now I'm setting up for the 166 A-TIP for testing. The Hammer Hunter 143 gr. solids will work with these same powders although you need to check your twist rate to be sure it will stabilize these bullets.

I had this article stashed away from another go-'round with the 7x61 Super S&H:

https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-44 Thomas.pdf

The loading data is at the end of the article in table form.

Enjoy!

 

[South Pender]

Thanks, guys. And Kurz, that's a good source. Let me ask you about your S&L M65DL. Does it have freebore? Or can you seat the bullets out just kissing the lands?

 

[Kurz]

The chambers in these rifles have no freebore at all. The twist rate is 1:10" so watch as you approach the longer bullets. This cartridge is an early '50s design so slightly shorter and therefore lighter cup and core bullets were in favor.

If you're planning a new build using this style reamer, you should consider a slightly faster twist in order accommodate our newer, longer VLD and solid bullets. The standard 1:9" will work for the 1.400" Hammer Hunter 143 gr. solid. Longer and heavier 175 class VLDs really need a 1:8.5" twist rate. If you're ordering a reamer consider adding some freebore by creating a dummy cartridge to send along to your reamer maker. Discuss this with him before ordering.

This is a fun cartridge to work with especially when you show up at deer or elk camp. No more mundanity from all the 7mm Rem Mags. Now you have something special!

 

[lotech]

Kurz- I have not seen that article in a while, but I prepared it for Wolfe Pub. several years ago. I still shoot and hunt with the rifle regularly. I'm about a hundred rounds into the third barrel.

The data in the article, of course was not pressure tested. After trying many loads, I've settled on those using either of two Hodgdon Extreme powders, H4350 or H4831. These may give slightly less velocity than other newer powders, but they are considerably more temperature insensitive, something to consider when elk hunting in sub-zero conditions or evaluating a handload on a hot Texas summer day.

 

[Kurz]

lotech,

Excellent! I'm glad you saw this post and thank you for your assessment.

I test all of my loads nowadays based on the area and season of use, leaving nothing to chance since my hunting covers waist deep snow to the desert Southwest. Benchrest and F-Class I develop separately and sometimes tune onsite.

I currently do not use any Hodgden powders but through testing have found that the newest versions of most powders show a significant improvement in the area of temperature sensitivity. Testing runs the gamut of about 30,000 shots a year spread between the North Florida area and Northern Arizona. It's a nice size sample set.

Thank you for finding and responding!

 

[South Pender]

Kurz, let me ask you another question since you have a Schultz & Larsen rifle. Your M65DL (like the earlier M54J and M60, and later M68DL) has rear locking lugs. I've read that some owners have had brass-stretching problems with their S&L rifles--leading to incipient case-head separations after very few reloads. What has your experience been in this regard?

 

[Kurz]

I've read that some owners have had brass-stretching problems with their S&L rifles--leading to incipient case-head separations after very few reloads. What has your experience been in this regard?

I've been reading about bolt flexing and case stretching for a long time. I have several actions which utilize rear locking lugs because I like the actions and they prove to be very accurate. The Remington M788 was the most prominent for the general public but rarely suffered from these reports.

My load development is usually held back some, avoiding the very top end loads. In this manner I find that case separation can be postponed at the least and avoided in many situations. Proper resizing and annealing procedure are necessary. Every rifle has its own set of cases kept segregated from all others. Each case is checked after every firing. If anything questionable is found, the case is set aside and I section it later. One variable I can't control is the quality and consistency of the cases. This has happened with one manufacturer in particular, repeatedly when they are (were) a sole source supplier. Now I avoid them at all cost and pay through the nose to another manufacturer. I have to go on reduced rations for a period of time but I can always stand to lose a few pounds...

 

[Zero333]

Kurz, let me ask you another question since you have a Schultz & Larsen rifle. Your M65DL (like the earlier M54J and M60, and later M68DL) has rear locking lugs. I've read that some owners have had brass-stretching problems with their S&L rifles--leading to incipient case-head separations after very few reloads. What has your experience been in this regard?

My opinion in general for belted cases...

Headspacing of off the belt on the first firing is the only downfall of the cartridge. After first firing, neck size only, until after a handful of resizing cycles the brass gives resistance when chambering. Then bump the shoulders back a couple thousands like any other bottleneck beltless cartridge.

Headcase separation with this cartridge would be more likely if you full length sized every cycle, thus relying on the belt to control the headspace.

 

[lotech]

Aside form a New Ultra Light Arms 7x61, I've worked with one Schultz & Larsen Model 60 in 7x61. I found no indication of incipient case head separation even after using brass multiple times. As has already been mentioned, proper case sizing should alleviate any problem.

With all belted cases, I size just enough for very slight bolt resistance when chambering an empty case (or cartridge). After somewhere between four and six sizings, a full-length sizing will be required for ease of chambering. We all know that very stout loads will shorten brass life considerably and these are to be avoided. I would stay away from some of the old 7x61 data. I've seen published data that I'm sure would be too hot for regular use in the two 7x61 rifles I've worked with.

I haven't annealed any brass in many years, but if done properly, annealing may prove advantageous.

 

[Kurz]

Headspacing of off the belt on the first firing is the only downfall of the cartridge. After first firing, neck size only, until after a handful of resizing cycles the brass gives resistance when chambering. Then bump the shoulders back a couple thousands like any other bottleneck beltless cartridge.

Zero333,

It is getting to be one of my habits here when posting, to describe much of the information I post in general terms rather than my usual pedantic, overly descriptive narrative. Much of this type of information has been posted multiple times and I save myself a bunch of keyboarding by not repeating.

The second part is that generalities saves a lot of contentiousness from others who have opinions just as strong as mine but differing. I'm not here to argue with members unless there is a really good reason.

So I reduce the amount of details to what I feel covers the question and save myself some work and the members some possibly superfluous reading.

In point of fact, I rarely contend with incipient case separation under any circumstances. The last one I documented in my notes was while working with a wildcat 25 years ago. But stating that baldly in some subject discussions leads to all sorts of arguments which distracts from the real question. There is still quite a bit of bad internet information floating around which makes it difficult to pass along the proper information. Maybe not here so much as on another forum which has been overrun by others lacking in the experience and the knowledge which is found here.

With all belted cases, I size just enough for very slight bolt resistance when chambering an empty case (or cartridge). After somewhere between four and six sizings, a full-length sizing will be required for ease of chambering. We all know that very stout loads will shorten brass life considerably and these are to be avoided.

lotech,

I wish we had crossed paths years ago (decades?) when I embarked on some of the more intense struggles with exotics, wildcats and reloading. Mine was search, test, try and sometimes gain a margin of success. I'll bet we could have had some stimulating conversations!

Thank you for your time and experience!

 

[riverside jeep]

I have inherited my dads 7x61 s/h in a S-L rifle and it's outfitted in its original 1950's? scope and sling. Dad reloaded for the rifle but by the time I was of age he had got out of shooting much so it ended up being his deer rifle.I was surprised that someone else had one!

 

[Papa T]

Can anyone point me to some loading data for the 7x61 S&H with modern powders? I have older data from several sources, but the powders included are the oldies--IMR4350, H4831, etc. Are there some more recent sources that would include the Alliant and Vihtavuori powders and possibly other newer ones?

This is my first post, but have been reloading for 54 years at this point. I have been shooting 7x61 for about 30 years and with powder availability scarce I have been trying newer powders to me anyway. My current loads are with H-4831 SC and Mag Pro. Reloader 22 when I can find it. I consult my reloading books for 7 mm Rem mag and consider 3% below max load as the max for 7x61. I start my test loads at 10% below that and work up. I have several hundred rounds of factory brass but I currently fireform 300 Win mag brass saving the good stuff. So far results with 139—-145 grain bullets has been great. I lean more towards the Mag Pro with Speer 145 Grand Slams, a compressed load. If anyone is interested in my case forming routine for 300 win mag brass give a shout out.

 

[FNSafari]

I believe the Hornady Manual has data for that cartridge.

11th edition does not.

 

[FNSafari]

Get a copy of Pet Loads by Ken Waters.