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7mm mauser? anyone??

skeetlee

Lee Gardner Precision
Silver $$ Contributor
Why dont we hear much about the 7mm mauser chambering? I am always thinking about different things and different chamberings and while i was cleaning out the safe i found a box of remington 7mm mauser ammo. Does anyone even make brass for these anymore? It looks a bit small for long range work, but what if someone was to improve the case by blowing it out and making a 40 degree shoulder? This probably is a big old waste of time, as i would assume getting quality brass for such a thing is non existent? Anyone here shoot the 7mm mauser, has anyone ever wildcat this cartridge? Just curious! I like that it has a long neck, i kinda think thats a good thing?? Lee

After doing some measuring isnt this mauser case the same a 6mm remington? I dont have a 6mm remington here to compare, but if memory serves me correctly they are very similar.
 
I played with it for a bit. Resized some 8mm Mauser brass and using RL-17 got decent results out of a VZ-24 with 162 amax. In a match rifle, it would perform great. I guess 7mm-08 won the market because of factory chamberings and brass availability.
 
8 X 57, 7 X 57, 6.5 X 57 (more commonly seen in europe), .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington (several names over the years as Remngton had made some poor marketing decisions including initially too slow a twist to stabilize the 100 gr hunting bullets). All based on the same parent case.

I have a 6mm AI that didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped, and know where I went wrong but have other projects in the works currently so that's on the back burner.

Nothing wrong with the X 57 family of cartridges, but to really make them work well a long action would be better suited. The current trend favoring short actions works against the X 57s.
 
I've had acouple even the 7x57AI.

What the old saying 7x57 too long for the short action and too short for the long action.
 
Yes, I'm a new convert to the 7X57!

I bought a really cheap Bubba version of a "sporterized" small ring Spanish Mauser. Well, it has problems, but I am tightening up the gun by new pillars and bedding the action.
In the mean time, I grew to like the extremely light gun and lack of recoil in a round that even in the American loads, will kill any North American game.

I also am building a VZ24 action, 7X57 military barrel laminated stock rifle. This gun will be way heavier than the small ring gun, but will be able to shoot hotter loads.

By all means, do your own research on the case limits for the 7X57. You will find it to not be the wimpy case most folks think it is. The american manufacturers build light loads due to fear that hevier loads will cause accidents and law suits. The data does not support that. No one has been able to destroy a small ring Mauser with over-loads. In any case, I will continue to use light loads in the small ring gun as it will easily do the job. And, for hevier loads, the VZ24 will handle them. And, the case will withstand more pressure than most folks think. Ironically, most negative comments about the 7X57 come from folks with no experience with it.

The 7mm-08 won out in the USA as it fits into a short action. Realisticly, the 7X57 is able to be loaded hotter than the 7mm-08.

You can buy expensive cases for the 7X57 or popular priced cases from Privi Partizan.

Go for it!
 
I have spent way too much money, and time on what started out as a Spanish 7X57 Model 1916 Short Rifle. I got it for $75 in a pawn shop. It is basically a short barreled Model 93 Mauser with a 22" barrel. After rebarreling with a mil surplus Model 98 barrel with the threads turner off and rethreaded for the smaller Model 93 receiver, a laminated Fajen stock from Midway, a Weaver type one piece scope mount, low Warne rings, and a Bushnell Banner Shotgun Scope, I have a very neat handy rifle for deer hunting and even the mighty elk at reasonable ranges with a Nosler 160 gr Acubond. I generally use Hornady 139 gr Spitzer for Deer and practice. My 16 year old grandson loves to shoot it as it has very tolerable recoil for such a light rifle. The barrel is cut back to 23". If I am on, it will shoot about 1.75" off the bench at 100 yds. I would not take a shot beyond 200 yds at a deer or elk, but where I hunt that isn't a problem.
 
Skeetlee, Federal and Hornady 139gr 7 x 57 ammo is listed in the Cabela's shooters catalog. Not too long ago Sellier & Bellot and Privi Partisan were also available. I didn't check Midway, but brass is probably available too. The 7 x 57 is a fine old cartridge. Very accurate with a wide range of bullet weights at moderate pressures. I think the 7-08 probably sent it to the showers. I also think the Yugo 24's or 48's are good choices for an action to put one in. I have a short barrel full military Mauser of some vintage (Yugo 24?) that shoots moa at 100 yds with a 3X scout type scope and the S & B stepped ogive 173gr load. Looks weird in a target. Very clean cut hole, like a wadcutter. Haven't shot any game with it, but it should be effective. I hog hunted with it twice, but good thing for the hogs, I think, that they didn't show up either time.

It's a fine cartridge for deer sized game. However, William Dalrymple Maitland (Karamojo) Bell was very successful with it on African Elephant. I believe he killed hundreds by shooting them in the ear canal. Doing that for the first time must be like being the first guy to eat a mushroom.

Good luck, Tom
 
The 6mm Rem case was derived from the 7x57, same as the .257 Roberts.

Teddy Roosevelt found out how effective the 7mm Spanish cartridge was in his charge up San Juan Hill.

P.O Ackley said the 7x57AI is one of the better of his "improved" cartridges (page 389, "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders", P.O. Ackley, 1962).

Sinclair sells bulk Rem 7x57 brass, page 95, and Norma 7x57 brass, page 94. Fits all price ranges.

Sinclair sells Redding 7x57AI dies, page 53.

Skeetlee, go for it!
 
1000yardstare said:
The 6mm Rem case was derived from the 7x57, same as the .257 Roberts.

Teddy Roosevelt found out how effective the 7mm Spanish cartridge was in his charge up San Juan Hill.

I think the Boars showed the Brits how effective the little Mauser was as well. The 7x57 came before the 8x57 in the 1898. My CZ in 7x57 will push a 140 at 2800 with handloads, coming very close to .280 rem numbers. The 7 mm will drop deer DRT. Nothing wrong with the 7x57 except it will kill all the deer you want, accurate, many excellent bullets in 7mm, and it won't beat you up. The 7-08 does have better factory loads, but the Mauser will do better if you handload, and with proper bullet selection, cover all the non-dangerous game on North America
 
A guy at my Club has a 7X57 AI on a Ruger. It's a hammer for him. He uses it on elk, deer, whatever. He told me he thinks it is as fast as a Rem 280, but I don't think he has crono data to back that up.
 
Boltman, the 7 x 57 AI can't quite match the .280 Rem. The .280 has slightly more case capacity than the .30-06 parent case. The shoulder is pushed forward about .050" more than the '06. However, Ackley gives the 7 x 57 AI an average 5 grains more powder than the 7 x 57, and a 150 - 200 fps edge in velocity. That's probably getting within 100 fps of the .280

I like both calibers, but the .280 will outrun the 7 x 57 AI.

Tom
 
I also didn't think it could, not without serous pressure issues at least. Just stand the two cases beside each other and anyone can see which one has the most case capacity.
 
A club member many moons ago complained that his .280 Rem was short throated. He said this cut him down to "almost" 7x57 velocities. Can`t remember the make of the rifle.

But a current club member has a custom .280 Rem that he asked to be long throated. He says this gives him "almost" 7mm Mag velocities.

Both shooters were/are probably erring on the side of their disappointment/enthusiasm.
 
I had a 7X57mm Boer (OVS - Orange Free State) Mauser M1895 service rifle many years ago, a German (DWM) made copy of the original mass-produced 7X57, the Spanish M1893 rifle. It was this rifle and cartridge, the M1893 / 95 and carbine versions that gave the US so much trouble in the Spanish-American War, and us in the South African War. These wars and the souvenir rifles brought back from them - which mine almost certainly was originally - created a lot of interest in Mauser system rifles and 7mm cartridges in both the USA and British Empire. Hence the US M1903 Springfield even if you guys went for a .30 cartridge, and the British Pattern 1913 that used a high performance 7mm based on the .280 Ross and that almost certainly would have been adopted here to replace the .303" Lee-Enfield if WW1 hadn't got in the way. (The P'13 went into production of course as the P'14 .303" and M1917 in .30-06 both made under contract / licence by Remington and Winchester.)

Although a scruffy looking beast, my M1895 was very accurate despite being hampered by simple, crude sights. The only service rifles I owned over many years that grouped as tightly were a 6.5mm M1895 Swedish Mauser, and a Swiss Schmidt IG1911 7.5X55mm long rifle.

The original 7X57mm loading used a very long flat-base 173gn round-nose bullet in either FMJ or SP form depending on purpose. Loads were modest by today's standards somewhere around 2,295 fps MV - and that only in long rifles with their 29.3" barrels. Ex service examples became a near standard farmer's rifle in parts of Southern Africa and took every form of plains game going and many leopards and lions too. The cartridge was a real killer despite the low MVs, or more likely because of them as bullets held together well. With their high SDs they penetrated enormous distances - valuable with the size and toughness of many African species. Col. Craig Boddington, a man who never knowingly goes anywhere undergunned, is a fan which tells you a lot.

In the early 20th century, there was a lot of interest in the 7X57mm in the USA and Britain. John Rigby & Son adopted it under their company name as the .275 Rigby and loaded it with 150 (Spitzer) and 173gn (RN) bullets. You could still get Eley-Kynoch 173gn "7mm Mauser" sporting cartridges in the UK as late as the 1960s or 70s in the company's red/yellow 10-round cartons. Canadian Industries Limited loaded Dominion brand 7X57mm also with 173gn RNSP bullets until even later, probably the 1980s. This was my first ammo and source of cases for my Boer Mauser - it was loaded much hotter than the European norm and had quite a nasty kick in the DWM rifle with its straight shotgun style buttstock.

You see the occasional very German looking pre-WW2 7mm sporter in Britain built on Mauser 98 or more often small ring actions and with skimpy wood. Some will have been bought from European firms by wealthy British shooters or imported by immigrants, but I imagine 90% + were confiscated from German civilians at the end of WW2 when the country was occupied and the rifles then 'liberated' and sneaked home by enterprising Allied soldiers. In more recent times, Ruger briefly chambered it in the early 77 and for quite a while in its No. 1 single shot rifle. A friend has one of the latter and has taken all sorts of European and North american game with it including a large Canadian black bear. Remington made at least a few 700s in it - I imagine its one-year limited production 'Classic' model - I've seen one of those too in regular use.

There was a small surge of ineterest in the 1960s-80s in the USA thanks to the large number of South American military contract Mausers that were sold cheap. The best and most common was the Brazilian model (M1907?) based on the '98 action. The Brazilians had upped their service load considerably for the stronger action and moved to a 139gn FMJ Spitzer at around 2,800 fps. We never saw any of these rifles in the UK which was a shame as they looked very good.

However, by the end of the last century, the cartridge had been largely forgotten outside of continental Europe or amongst historic arms shooters. It is a very effective deer number. You often hear it said that it gives light recoil, but that depends on the rifle weight and the load - a full-house load in a deer rifle kicks a lot harder than a .308. Loading manual data is usually very weak as it's limited to around 45,000 psi PMax in M1893 era rifles, but can run at the same pressures as any modern cartridge in a good modern action. It needs a long action and lost out in the USA to .30-06 and its necked down versions - .270W and .280R that are larger cased and higher performers in the heyday of long action rifles. The final nail in the coffin in the USA was the 7mm-08R that gives the same factory ammo performance in a short action with 139-150gn bullets - but 7mm-08 won't match 7X57mm loaded up with heavy bullets in a properly (long-throated) chamber.

I've seen it used in AI form in long-range competition - but why use this? .284 Win or 6.5-284 in long actions and properly chambered barrels give better ballistics, as does 6.5X55mm for long-range shooting.

None of this detracts from the merits of the cartridge, only says that it doesn't make much sense to have one specially built other than as a deer rifle. if you find an original rifle in good condition it's a great cartridge and should be used as such.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Laurie, you have a wealth of knowledge and always write some really good information. I often feel like I am reading an article in Guns and Ammo when reading your posts. It sometimes seems like you spend a week researching the subject matter and send a copy to an editor before you post it here. It's just incredible. Keep it up as I love reading it!

I have read Craig Boddington's stories of people taking large game with the old "Karamoja Bell" load from Kynoch in 7x57 with a steel jacketed 175gr solid, and always thought it was an amazing feat to take a such large dangerous game with such a small bullet.

Thanks for all the info
Kenny
 
Kenny,

you're too kind. I've always been fond of this cartridge and sometimes regret selling the Boer Mauser, but I'd be able do little with it now thanks to the sights. One of these days, I might have a go again with the cartridge in a good modern rifle to see what it can really do in terms of groups.

Laurie
 
The 7x57 is a great round. I traded a Rem 700 adl 270W for a brand new in the box Rem 700 mountaun rifle in 7x57. I love this rifle, it is the perfect combination of weight and balance. You have to keep shot strings short at the range to keep the barrel cool though. Other than that it is a great platform for the hunter that knows how to hunt from his/her two feet.
The best shot I ever pulled off was with this rifle was a running coyote durung deer season in PA. I shot him through the head running, the 140g BT hit him between the ears and came out between the eyes. One eye was blasted out and the other had to be pushed back in for the photo. The worst thing about this is I had no witness. Oh well.


Mike
 
One of the finest game cartridges ever designed. My currret rifle one a small ring is capable, with all planets aligned and good loads on board, of the occasional 1/2" 5 shot group at 200 yd. Imessed around a lot in younger days and developed many loads and learned a lot about bedding, with this rifle. Did a long trepidous work up on 139gr "H" bullets and an "H" powder eventually stopping 5 grains over the manuals maximum loads at the time. Using all the standard parameters for DIY ballistic research(OK didnt blow up), no case head expansion, no primer embarassment, easy extraction, long case life, ETC. This load chrono'ed close to3000 fps. The only reason I didnt push it furthr was theres no physical way to get ather kernel in a case. But my sson has proven that hte biggest white tail of his lfe never took a step after a 150gr SP was applied @ 2600fps. He sid he didnt ned to get hotter since all the bullet touched at 100. What more can I say, Extremely versatile useful cartridge,!!!
 
That was much better written than "Guns + Ammo" magazine .


Look for the old CIL 139 grain soft point bullet for deer and sheep.
The Shah of Iran used this Dominion 7x57 load before the revolution for sheephunting .

Don't load this bullet to 3400 fps and shoot a deer though.
A friend did that years ago and it kills them dead but ruins the whole front quarter !!

Stonewall
 
Laurie said:
There was a small surge of ineterest in the 1960s-80s in the USA thanks to the large number of South American military contract Mausers that were sold cheap. The best and most common was the Brazilian model (M1907?) based on the '98 action. The Brazilians had upped their service load considerably for the stronger action and moved to a 139gn FMJ Spitzer at around 2,800 fps. We never saw any of these rifles in the UK which was a shame as they looked very good.

I think our Mausers were 1908. And they can handle a lot of pressure (there are some rechambered as 7mmRemMag and other magnuns).

In fact, almost anyone in Brazil that shots centerfire rifles had, in a point of his life, a 7X57mm Brazilian Mauser rifle. I did and after changed and profiled the barrel, it would print less than 1,0 MOA groups (of 5 shots) at 100 meters easily with long and heavy bullets (necessary to stabilize the .286 barrel of the military contract brazilian mausers).

Another point is that american reloading manuals are very underpowered on 7mm Mauser loads, specially the ones newer than 10 years. If you look at older reloading manuals, specially the european ones, you will notice that you can push bullets a lot faster, very near .280 Rem velocities.

Recently, on an African Safari, I saw first hand 7x57 Mauser one shot killing on Elands. The South African just loves the 7x57 Mauser on hunting almost anything!
 

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