6x47 SM vs 6-6.5x47 Lapua

[STamulinas]

Hi:
Longtime lurker first time poster. I'm in the process of
building a 6x47 rifle for long range HP competition. I
initially wanted to build the rifle on 6x47 Swiss Match
primarily due to the posts I found raving about the quality
of the Ruag 6x47 Swiss Match brass. I've done several
Google and searches on this web site and I have found very
few posts on people who have actually purchased and used
the Ruag brass and used it for long range competition. Through
emails and PM's I've found that people who have purchased
once fired Ruag brass have found it too hard to seal the necks
and primer pockets that leak.
Has anyone found a source for virgin Ruag brass,if so
where) and have you tried shooting 115 gr bullets. I've
seen the posts of people necking down 6.5x47 Lapua brass
but unless the Ruag brass is as crummy as the two individuals
I've contacted say it is, I really don't want to have to start
necking down brass.
I've read lots of posts about how wonderful the Ruag brass
"looks". I would like to know if it performs at 600 to 1000 yds. Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Stacey

 

[Forum Boss]

Some other options:

1. The Tubb 6XC brass is very good by all reports. It is made by Norma. It is large primer pocket however, and the Lapua brass may hold up a little longer under max loads with its small primer pocket/small flash hole.

2. We've been told that Lapua will probably be making 6mm-6.5x47 brass sometime this year. Same brass, just a 6mm version out of the box. We don't have a delivery date on this.

FYI, for the guys who have tried it, necking down the brass doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

 

[STamulinas]

Thanks for the response. Have you seen any feedback from
the Ruag users? I've seen lots of posts for 105 & 107 bullets
but nothing specific on the 115 gr bullets. What bullets are people using at 1000 yards?
Stacey

 

[STamulinas]

Well this thread didn't generate as much interest as I thought
it would. Anyway, I really tried to buy some 6x47 Swiss Match.
I tried to run down every lead I got. After several calls
to Germany & Switzerland there was only one positive responce.
Contact: Markus Hurni
Sales Manager Special Ammo
Phone: 011 41 33 228 2632
email: markus.hurni@ruag.com
He did not respond to my email but I talked to him by phone.
Cost is .90 euro for each piece of brass. That's about $1.19
for each piece of brass,depending on the exchange rate) plus shipping. You've got to really, really want this stuff. I'm getting some once fired brass from a friend in Switzerland.
Good luck,
Stacey

 

[DTubb]

the next batch of 6XC Norma is due in a couple of weeks. I will hopefully test the 117 DTAC BN coated,MJPT) at around 3100 fps. The spec on the thickness of the boatail/base area on the 117 indicates it will stand the increase in pressure along with the head hardness of the Norma brass.

The Reverend is on the list to get some of each in order to get some unbiased feedback.

DTubb

 

[sparker]

D. Tubb

Will the new 117s shoot in an 8" twist? I certainly welcome the addition of the polymer tip. It beats the heck out of using a broken pencil sharpener.

Scott Parker

 

[DTubb]

Scott, This past October, I shot the 117gr DTAC's out of a true 8 twist 26" Schneider barrel,conventional rifleing) at 2200 fps at 2500 ft elevation and about 60 degrees,approx 4000 Density altitude on my Kestrel)
It took 30 minutes of extra elevation to hit the target at 1000 yd,over my regular 2950+fps loading) but all 10 impacts were round holes in the target. I figure at sea level it will certainly be stabilized when fired at 2800fps at a 1000 yard target.
DTubb

 

[457ciSBC]

Well this thread didn't generate as much interest as I thought
it would. Anyway, I really tried to buy some 6x47 Swiss Match.
I tried to run down every lead I got. After several calls
to Germany & Switzerland there was only one positive responce.
Contact: Markus Hurni
Sales Manager Special Ammo
Phone: 011 41 33 228 2632
email: markus.hurni@ruag.com
He did not respond to my email but I talked to him by phone.
Cost is .90 euro for each piece of brass. That's about $1.19
for each piece of brass,depending on the exchange rate) plus shipping. You've got to really, really want this stuff. I'm getting some once fired brass from a friend in Switzerland.
Good luck,
Stacey

Before the Lapua case came out, I was lucky enough to score some new RUAG brass from overseas. Once the Lapua case appeared I began to form 6x47SM brass from the Lapua 6.5x47 case.

First, I run it into a 6BR body die to knock the neck down to around .280, then I just run it into my RCBS 6x47SM die,swapped with PPC decapping pin) which bumps the shoulder back .036 and takes the neck down to around .2705. The whole process is pretty painless.

Mike

 

[STamulinas]

Hi Mike:
I've heard some negative comments on the Ruag brass
being too "stiff" for the necks to seal or maybe not
annealed. I'm very familiar with the quality of Lapua
brass,I use it exclusively in 3 of the calibers I shoot).
What was the quality of the Ruag brass? Also have you
shot any 115's in the 6x47? Were the dies for 6x47 SM
compatable with the 6x47 Lapua? Were the 6x47 SM dies
custom of a stock item?
Thanks for any information you could provide,
Stacey

 

[sparker]

D. Tubb

Does the polymer tip change the length of the bullet?

Scott Parker

 

[DTubb]

Scott,
This 117 gr DTAC is a completely different bullet from the 115 DTAC. The plastic tip is aproximately .130" long. The overall length of the 117 DTAC is about .070" longer than the 115. It will require,for optimum accuracy) that the throat of the 6mm bore be about .040" longer,than the 115 throating) in order to keep the full diameter of the base of the bullet in front of the neck shoulder junction of the case,donut area). The 117 DTAC has a heavier jacket thickness at the base so as to be able to stand more pressure without losing accuracy. As stated in a previous post the 117's are going 3100 fps,max load)out of my 26.5" barrel, which is properly throated for the 117).
The 117 BC is at least 50+ points better than any 105/7 6mm according to my oehler 43 testing.
DTubb

 

[sparker]

D. Tubb

Did you change the boat tail angle? I remember the 115 DTACs having a steep 9 or 10 degree boat tail. Acording to McCoy. The lowest drag form occurs at 7 degrees.

Scott Parker

 

[sparker]

D. Tubb

Have you thought about offering tailor made shooting coats for prone shooting? I had a recent experience with a coat maker that was less than I expected. If interested, please email me privately. I do not wish to air the experience in a public forum.

Scott Parker

 

[457ciSBC]

Hi Mike:
I've heard some negative comments on the Ruag brass
being too "stiff" for the necks to seal or maybe not
annealed. I'm very familiar with the quality of Lapua
brass,I use it exclusively in 3 of the calibers I shoot).
What was the quality of the Ruag brass? Also have you
shot any 115's in the 6x47? Were the dies for 6x47 SM
compatable with the 6x47 Lapua? Were the 6x47 SM dies
custom of a stock item?
Thanks for any information you could provide,
Stacey

The 100 cases that I received were of excellent quality. However, personally I would use the 6.5 Lapua as parent case and forget about obtaining RUAG cases.

No, it's a slower twist varmint setup.

Yes, the RCBS 6x47SM FL die works great with the Lapua brass. The one caveat, either replace the decapping pin or turn it one down to be compatible with the Lapua small flash hole. As for a seater dies, I've used a 6XC Redding comp and a Wilson.

The 6x47SM FL die was a cataloged item from Midway.

Mike

 

[DesertLefty]

Stacey,

I have 95 pieces of once-fired 6x47 SM brass that I'd sell for $30 shipped anywhere in CONUS. If you're interested, click the email button and send a private message.

Lefty

 

[STamulinas]

Thanks Lefty:
Email sent.
Stacey

 

[GLC]

Hi:
Longtime lurker first time poster. I'm in the process of
building a 6x47 rifle for long range HP competition. I
initially wanted to build the rifle on 6x47 Swiss Match
primarily due to the posts I found raving about the quality
of the Ruag 6x47 Swiss Match brass. I've done several
Google and searches on this web site and I have found very
few posts on people who have actually purchased and used
the Ruag brass and used it for long range competition. Through
emails and PM's I've found that people who have purchased
once fired Ruag brass have found it too hard to seal the necks
and primer pockets that leak.
Has anyone found a source for virgin Ruag brass,if so
where) and have you tried shooting 115 gr bullets. I've
seen the posts of people necking down 6.5x47 Lapua brass
but unless the Ruag brass is as crummy as the two individuals
I've contacted say it is, I really don't want to have to start
necking down brass.
I've read lots of posts about how wonderful the Ruag brass
"looks". I would like to know if it performs at 600 to 1000 yds. Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Stacey

Hi Stacey,

I have been running a F-Class rifle 6x47 Ruag on a BAT action and Kreiger 1:8 twist barrel,28" throated for heavy VLD's, I exclusively use 115DTAC's, from start up load development the rifle grouped in the 1/4" and I just increased the load to the velocity I wanted.
I ran it near to 3100,N560) hot day approx 75 degree,hot in the UK!) no pressure signs or extraction marks BUT after de-capping and sizing I found very loose primer pockets, I have re-used this brass since but I doubt it I will use it again.
So I dropped the load to around 3000FPS and it still shoots brilliantly, at 300yrds best 3 shot group,witnessed .022") every group under .75" and at 600yrds,witnessed) 1.17" best and 2.07" worst ,reasonable conditions 5-7mph wind,shot a Bisley last summer) this was done with a 24power scope, I am sure with a 32 I could have done better.

I have no experience with the Lapua brass and we can get the Ruag brass relatively easily, but I can say the quality of it is Superb, it comes out of the box with the the neck inside and outside chamfered and when I first got it I ran a batch through the spinner all less than 1 thou runout most a small blip on the needle.
I do not do any brass prep at all,just neck turn) just load and shoot.
This rifle is my most accurate and favorite, it will run alongside a 6.5x284 all day without any of the nastiness!
I have used the 41 grain loaded brass 3 times now without annealing or neck tension problems, I will probably anneal them after the 4th firing.

I have not shot it at 1000yrds yet but at 600yrds it is as good if not better than my 6.5x284, I will be using this rifle for all 3-600yrd comps this year and will try it at 1000yrds next month.

Bullets are loaded into the lands, and my load is 40-41 grains N560,depending on season) spreads are very good and it is a stable load, I started at 38 grains which achieved approx 2790fps.
This is what I used in My rifle, if you try it please start low and work up gradually!

If you need anything else let me know, Also I know a very reputble gunsmith in the U.S that I sent a dummy round,based on my chambering) to and he has had a reamer ground to this spec,A friend of min is having a 6x47Ruag smithed in the U.S)
E-mail me and I will send you the info gcostello@pbs-int.co.uk

Regards

Gary
,GB F Class)

 

[DTubb]

Sparker,
The boattail angle on all the the DTAC bullets is 9 degrees.
I shot some 7 degree boatails when working with a couple of other heavier 6mm bullet weights,exact same bullets with 7 and 9 degree boattails). I could not tell any difference between the either one for wind drift or BC change but I sure could when it came to accuracy.
DTubb

 

[STamulinas]

Hi Gary:
Thanks for the informative post. Email is on its way.
Stacey

 

[msb6]

D.Tubb
What twist would you use for the DTAC 117's assuming a barrel length of 30"?