6mm LSI
- Thread starter ktoney
- Start date
rcw3
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Most 40 degree shoulder cartridges are made by fire forming and it's typically hard to make them otherwise without some work. The 6mm SLR is a one die in and out and "done" re-form of the shoulder of 243 Win brass. The LSI is more complicated for sure. Good luck!
Robert Whitley
Robert Whitley
I've been shooting the 6CM for a few years now. Barrel life is longer then what Joe had expected at first. Accuracy is 1/4 moa. If your looking for speed it has it, or you can slow it down a little. I shoot nothing but 115 DTAC's in mine at 3153 fps. No this is not a dragrace because I slowed it down some. This cartridge is everything Joe say's it is. I just got one of my other 6CM barrels back from MMI Trutec, gonna run this one in Tactical and push it hard for fun.
highmaster82
competitive highpower for 45 years
spring of2002 march i think precision shooting had an article by bob greenleaf on the 6BG. 243 with the sholder push back to form 30 degree uses .300 savage headspace gage little longer neck than whitleys copy i use 6xc dies to form cases .you do know who bob greenleaf is don't you. Byron W . Davis
rcw3
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The reality is all the cartridges mentioned above (6mm SLR, 6CM, 6BG and probably the 6mm LSI) do just about the same thing (performance wise) and any debate that the performance of one being significantly better than the other is like debating that 12 is better than a dozen. I have a 6CM and I don't get any better performance out of it than I do my 6mm Super LR (despite postings suggesting that it is somehow a superman cartridge). The Super LR is easy to make, it has a long neck, it's real accurate, and you don't need to fire form it to make it, and dies are readily available for it and so are reamer drawings, so that's what many find appealing about it.
The link with the reamer drawing is below:
http://www.6mmar.com/Super_LR.html
Robert
The link with the reamer drawing is below:
http://www.6mmar.com/Super_LR.html
Robert
Here we go again. ;D The last time I fire formed brass at 100 yards, which was a first for me. The norm is 300 - 1000 yards. I shot 5 -5 shot groups with 115 Dtac's, the biggest group was a low .3, 2 were in the .0's. Kiff makes the reamers and the gauges and has all the prints and Redding makes the Die.
rcw3
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Well gee - I never need to fire form brass with the 6mm Super LR and all my groups are in the 0's and I can shoot the 115's at 3200 fps all day long and have 5000 round barrel life - so mine's better, ha!
And if people believe everything everything they read on these threads - I have a fish story too.
Robert
And if people believe everything everything they read on these threads - I have a fish story too.
Robert
rcw3
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The 6BG looks a lot like the 6mm Super LR. It's hard to tell, but it looks like the shoulder is back slightly more on the 6BG. The criteria I used for setting the head space of the 6mm Super LR cartridge was how far I could push 243 Win brass up into the 30 degree shoulder sizing die before the case body just below the shoulder started to deflect and I stopped there. I wanted it to be real easy to make brass (i.e. just wanted to be able to lube cases and run them quick through the 6mm Super LR sizing die in and out one time and be done). How others may have set their head space with similar cartridges was not my concern because I wanted to work off the actual brass and components I had. If you use brass that is softer up in the neck/shoulder area you could push the 6mm Super LR shoulder back more, but then if you use Winchester brand 243 Win brass (that's harder), you cannot do it without starting to collapse the metal right below the shoulder case wall junction.
6CM was really Dick Egolf's cartridge (taken and re-named the 6CM by Joe Hendricks - most think Joe developed it, but that's not quite the whole story) and in reality, it's essentially a 243 Win with the shoulder pivoted up to 31 degrees.
In truth, they're all great 6mm cartridges, but like I said, performance wise if someone wants to debate how much better one is than the other, it's like debating that 12 is better than a dozen - pick the one you like and run with it - you can win competitions with any of them.
Robert Whitley
6CM was really Dick Egolf's cartridge (taken and re-named the 6CM by Joe Hendricks - most think Joe developed it, but that's not quite the whole story) and in reality, it's essentially a 243 Win with the shoulder pivoted up to 31 degrees.
In truth, they're all great 6mm cartridges, but like I said, performance wise if someone wants to debate how much better one is than the other, it's like debating that 12 is better than a dozen - pick the one you like and run with it - you can win competitions with any of them.
Robert Whitley
Seems i was not clear
My objective here is 40' degree shoulder not 30
longer neck .350
That is the 6mm LSI i think
If i wanted a 30' shoulder i wud just run brass thru 6.5x47 body which i have done in past
No fire forming, idea here is to push shoulder back in similar way as on 6SLR
I,m thinking i can grind bottom off 243AI die n be good, i see no reason you cant push back to 40' if ya can do 30'...maybe 30' then 40' kinda 2 step it
Lots of input but i,m looking for 40' shoulder so any 30' info no help
Dgd6mm
Are you saying redding has 6.5x47AI dies???
RCW3
Any ideas on what i can use for push die to get 40' shoulder
Not saying it has not been done before or its an original idea just wanna know info 6mm LSI which appears to be exactly what i,m after
Now looking photo i would suggest the shoulder has been pushed back hence the long neck, blowing forward ala AI wud reduce neck
So once agin any info on th 6mm LSI wud be most helpful
My objective here is 40' degree shoulder not 30
longer neck .350
That is the 6mm LSI i think
If i wanted a 30' shoulder i wud just run brass thru 6.5x47 body which i have done in past
No fire forming, idea here is to push shoulder back in similar way as on 6SLR
I,m thinking i can grind bottom off 243AI die n be good, i see no reason you cant push back to 40' if ya can do 30'...maybe 30' then 40' kinda 2 step it
Lots of input but i,m looking for 40' shoulder so any 30' info no help
Dgd6mm
Are you saying redding has 6.5x47AI dies???
RCW3
Any ideas on what i can use for push die to get 40' shoulder
Not saying it has not been done before or its an original idea just wanna know info 6mm LSI which appears to be exactly what i,m after
Now looking photo i would suggest the shoulder has been pushed back hence the long neck, blowing forward ala AI wud reduce neck
So once agin any info on th 6mm LSI wud be most helpful
rcw3
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Toney
I think you are going to have trouble re-forming and pushing a 40 degree shoulder with consistency without some special forming dies. The same reason that makes it so the 40 degree cases don't grow much when you shoot them (i.e. 6mm Dasher, 6mm Turbo 40, 243 AI) is the same reason why a simple reforming the shoulder with a die is a problem (i.e. brass flow for re-forming at 40 degrees becomes much harder). Best I can say is try it and see. I suspect the 6mm LSI case was made with multiple dies and/or possibly fire forming as well. Good luck - let us know what you find works.
Robert Whitley
I think you are going to have trouble re-forming and pushing a 40 degree shoulder with consistency without some special forming dies. The same reason that makes it so the 40 degree cases don't grow much when you shoot them (i.e. 6mm Dasher, 6mm Turbo 40, 243 AI) is the same reason why a simple reforming the shoulder with a die is a problem (i.e. brass flow for re-forming at 40 degrees becomes much harder). Best I can say is try it and see. I suspect the 6mm LSI case was made with multiple dies and/or possibly fire forming as well. Good luck - let us know what you find works.
Robert Whitley
rcw3
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Toney
An alternative is to run with something like the Super LR for the base brass, but then fire form it to a 40 degree shoulder angle in a properly designed and dimensioned chamber so you have a long neck plus a 40 degree shoulder angle like the LSI.
That would be a neat project to do for sure and you could run with a 243AI die shortened off the bottom for day to day re-sizing. The reamer would need to be made to work off the shortened die.
I might try it myself for a long range prone gun.
Robert Whitley
An alternative is to run with something like the Super LR for the base brass, but then fire form it to a 40 degree shoulder angle in a properly designed and dimensioned chamber so you have a long neck plus a 40 degree shoulder angle like the LSI.
That would be a neat project to do for sure and you could run with a 243AI die shortened off the bottom for day to day re-sizing. The reamer would need to be made to work off the shortened die.
I might try it myself for a long range prone gun.
Robert Whitley
Just gotta fig out how to get from a - b
Not sure if blowing forward 6SLR will work as that would shorten neck, maybe not thou
If you pushed neck @ 30' back to .350 then as u said with correct chamber blow it back forward to 40'
Gotta b an easier way, i still think ya might get away with pushing it back if done in two steps 30' then 40'
Not sure if blowing forward 6SLR will work as that would shorten neck, maybe not thou
If you pushed neck @ 30' back to .350 then as u said with correct chamber blow it back forward to 40'
Gotta b an easier way, i still think ya might get away with pushing it back if done in two steps 30' then 40'
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