6mm 115grain Berger & Dtac, any good?
- Thread starter TresMon
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jghoghunter
Gold $$ Contributor
I used the 115 bergers all last yr. in a broughton 1/7 5c barrel and the 2nd load I tried shot .126 for 10 shots at 100yds. My girlfriend who I built the gun for shot it for the first time and shot a .43 for 25 shots at 100 yds. This was the first time she had ever shot a rifle like this. This is my experience with these bullets. So far so good.
jghoghunter
Gold $$ Contributor
I have shot 1" 5 shot groups at 500 yds and 6" 5 shot groups at 1k.
I've shot both Berger & DTAC 115s through a couple of 6x47Ls - one with an 8-twist, the other with a 7.5-twist bbl. They both handle the DTACs very well, but oddly enough, the 8-tw. shoots the Bergers better than the 7.5-tw. bbl. does. Also somewhat contrary to the norm, I got best results with the Berger 115s in that bbl. with them seated to jump at least .010". While I'll stick with 105-107s in my Dashers, the 115s rule at 1000yds. in the 6x47s.
gaintwist
Silver $$ Contributor
I have shot both Berger VLD and DTAC 115's about 3050 out of my 243AI/Lilja 1-8 with equal success in Raton but lost 2 VLD's in the Sunday 1000 match at BASF. Tested the DTAC's yesterday in practice and they stayed together. Talking to F-class shooters that use the Berger say Moly coating help...as do shorter barrels than my 30". I think I will follow David Tubb's example of using shorter barrels with his extention tube.
-lige
-lige
Mudcat
Gold $$ Contributor
Try the new Berger 115s that have the thick jacket. I have been testing them and have them running 3200fps and have went thru a little over a box of them with NO poofs. During my testing I have been trying to see IF they will go poof...big charge of Re17, high speed, shooting 25-40 rounds within 10 minutes, etc. Not one has blown up yet. I believe the thick jackets have now put the Bergers on par with Sierra in terms of holding up. And, just so you know, I have poofed at least a couple Sierras over the years.
John
John
I had one Berger 115 blow up a few months ago, but that was the only one in about 500 fired so far. It was moly coated, in a 30" long 1:7.5" twist barrel with under 500 rounds fired through it at about 2930 fps. That's not enough of a problem to give me a lot of concern, but I am trying the thick jacket versions now. Last Sunday I shot the thin and thick jacket versions back to back and found that the elevation setting on my sights required no adjustment at all; same with the seating die, the bullets were identical.
Mudcat
Gold $$ Contributor
Found the same on elevation too. And, I dont think they are as finicky over seating depth either. I loaded up 4 groups of 25, 10 off, at lands, 10 in and 20 in the lands. The at lands shot the tightest group but the other 3 were right there too. I shot them at 300yards in pretty strong and variable winds too...wish I had a calm day but its been cold around here and it was the first day I felt warm and comfortable enough to spend an afternoon shooting! And, as I was more concerned with trying to get one to fail, the wind was a lesser concern as groups were a secondary consideration, especially considering the age on the bbl!
I am also going to wager that if I back them down off the 3200fps mark that i am going to see some better accuracy...but, I havent gotten that far in my testing yet! But I need to, as I plan on shooting these at 600 and LR this year, so I have to get on the ball!
John
I am also going to wager that if I back them down off the 3200fps mark that i am going to see some better accuracy...but, I havent gotten that far in my testing yet! But I need to, as I plan on shooting these at 600 and LR this year, so I have to get on the ball!
John
We've had two or three weeks of unbelievably good weather,81 today) and now the forecast for the weekend is windy, cloudy and maybe some rain,what's that?). Of course, this weekend is the long-range state championship... Well, we'll get to see the 115's in some heavy wind. last year in relatively calm conditions I scored 797-42X with them in this match; I don't think that's going to happen again with this forecast.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
I see the postings with high velocity numbers,over 3000 fps) for the 115's,DTAC or Berger) and I always wonder about that. In the past two years I have done a lot of testing and shot prone matches with the 115 DTAC's and the 115 Bergers, but I honestly have never found a reliable and consistent accurate 'sweet spot",i.e. one that will hold tight for 22+ shots in a row) for the 6mm 115's at much more than about 2950 fps.
At first I thought it was just a particular barrel I had, but I now have done testing on 5+ barrels and always the same thing, if I push the 115's up to 3000+ fps, the groups hold for a little while when I start out with a cold bore but then after 10-15 shots the group falls apart. If I back down the load to around 2950 fps, the group will hold for 22+ shots in a row.
This 2950 fps with the 6mm 115's threshold does not seem to be powder or cartridge specific either,i.e. RL17 allows me to run them 3100-3200 fps in some of the cartridges I shoot but that's of no value because the consistent tight accuracy never seems to be up there anyway).
Is there anyone else out there that has the same experience with the 115's?
Robert Whitley
At first I thought it was just a particular barrel I had, but I now have done testing on 5+ barrels and always the same thing, if I push the 115's up to 3000+ fps, the groups hold for a little while when I start out with a cold bore but then after 10-15 shots the group falls apart. If I back down the load to around 2950 fps, the group will hold for 22+ shots in a row.
This 2950 fps with the 6mm 115's threshold does not seem to be powder or cartridge specific either,i.e. RL17 allows me to run them 3100-3200 fps in some of the cartridges I shoot but that's of no value because the consistent tight accuracy never seems to be up there anyway).
Is there anyone else out there that has the same experience with the 115's?
Robert Whitley
Mudcat
Gold $$ Contributor
Unfortunately, I wasnt shooting for accuracy, per se, with the latest test. I was actually trying to get them to come apart under somewhat realistic match conditions. Of course, the test was "successful" in those terms...ie, no lost bullets. And I was running them about as fast as I could out of that bbl/cartridge combo.
I will say, however, that I didnt see a pattern of great for 10 shots, then opening up. I do plan on slowing them down when I test for accuracy for developing my load to use this year and I highly doubt they are going to be running 3200fps becuase unless I plan to run Re17 at 600 and H4350 at 2/300, I will be running H4350 at 600 and I dont think i will get that kind of velocity. And, I dont like being on the ragged edge of the pressure curve with match ammo, especially when the load was developed during the colder off season.
My guess is that my actual match load is going to be in the 3000fps region, as thats where I ran the 115thins and they liked it, a lot, and I could shoot more than 22 shots in row with that load.
So, no, Robert, I am not saying 3200 is going to work, but I am not so sure its a rule that you cant get 22 shots at a high velocity to group consistently. Sometimes I think it can, sometimes it cant. Just depends on what you are shooting.
John
I will say, however, that I didnt see a pattern of great for 10 shots, then opening up. I do plan on slowing them down when I test for accuracy for developing my load to use this year and I highly doubt they are going to be running 3200fps becuase unless I plan to run Re17 at 600 and H4350 at 2/300, I will be running H4350 at 600 and I dont think i will get that kind of velocity. And, I dont like being on the ragged edge of the pressure curve with match ammo, especially when the load was developed during the colder off season.
My guess is that my actual match load is going to be in the 3000fps region, as thats where I ran the 115thins and they liked it, a lot, and I could shoot more than 22 shots in row with that load.
So, no, Robert, I am not saying 3200 is going to work, but I am not so sure its a rule that you cant get 22 shots at a high velocity to group consistently. Sometimes I think it can, sometimes it cant. Just depends on what you are shooting.
John
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
John
As a high power XTC shooter as well as a Mid Range and Long Range prone shooter, I always do full 22 shot load testing now because I have found so many high velocity loads that look great for two sighters plus the first 10 shots, only to see them fall apart on the back 10 shots.
By the way, no question in my mind that running a 6mm 115 Berger VLD,.595 b.c.) at 2950 fps with exceptional accuracy equates to a lot of down range performance. At 600 yards shooting prone, even on windy days where I have totally misjudged wind calls, I have still shot cleans and the bullets have stayed in the 10 ring when other shooters were out for a 1 or 2 point loss on their similar shot in time,like when three of you let a shot go all about at the same time, the shots all show up at 3:00 o'clock but yours is the only shot hanging in the 10 ring - been there, done that a number of times).
Because of this, these days, I only go to a velocity where the groups are the tightest, mainly because I feel the tightest shooting loads also ride in the winds the best too.
Robert Whitley
As a high power XTC shooter as well as a Mid Range and Long Range prone shooter, I always do full 22 shot load testing now because I have found so many high velocity loads that look great for two sighters plus the first 10 shots, only to see them fall apart on the back 10 shots.
By the way, no question in my mind that running a 6mm 115 Berger VLD,.595 b.c.) at 2950 fps with exceptional accuracy equates to a lot of down range performance. At 600 yards shooting prone, even on windy days where I have totally misjudged wind calls, I have still shot cleans and the bullets have stayed in the 10 ring when other shooters were out for a 1 or 2 point loss on their similar shot in time,like when three of you let a shot go all about at the same time, the shots all show up at 3:00 o'clock but yours is the only shot hanging in the 10 ring - been there, done that a number of times).
Because of this, these days, I only go to a velocity where the groups are the tightest, mainly because I feel the tightest shooting loads also ride in the winds the best too.
Robert Whitley
Mudcat
Gold $$ Contributor
I dont disagree and I too will test out a load to make sure it runs the full 22 shot criteria cause I too, cannot afford to lose a point, let along an X with the crowd I have to shoot against here in NC...especially LR!!
I tend to do LD by running rounds over the chrono until I find the max velocity at a safe pressure then go shoot groups backing down till I think I have found a accuracy sweet spot, then work from there with seating depth. For me, it tends to work pretty well without wasting a lot of bbl life. I then use that load until I toast the bbl. Once I develop loads for a bbl, I stick with them till I notice an issue or wear out the bbl. The less variables I have, the better.
And, for XTC use, my only hot loads are for 600. 2/300 loads are usually really whimpy. The 600 loads will be as hot as I can get where I still maintain that covetted "22 shot string accuracy".
But, simply put, I will run 600/LR loads as fast as I can as long as the accuracy is there. No accuracy, no load. Doesnt matter if they are running 3400fps and miss the center, does it!?
John
I tend to do LD by running rounds over the chrono until I find the max velocity at a safe pressure then go shoot groups backing down till I think I have found a accuracy sweet spot, then work from there with seating depth. For me, it tends to work pretty well without wasting a lot of bbl life. I then use that load until I toast the bbl. Once I develop loads for a bbl, I stick with them till I notice an issue or wear out the bbl. The less variables I have, the better.
And, for XTC use, my only hot loads are for 600. 2/300 loads are usually really whimpy. The 600 loads will be as hot as I can get where I still maintain that covetted "22 shot string accuracy".
But, simply put, I will run 600/LR loads as fast as I can as long as the accuracy is there. No accuracy, no load. Doesnt matter if they are running 3400fps and miss the center, does it!?
John
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