I have a BRAND NEW 6mm Dasher. It is a 1-8 Twist, 28" long Krieger. It was reamed with a David Kiff reamer spec. for 105-108 bullets. I bought a set of Whidden F/L Dies and his Competition seater. I did A LOT of research before I decided on a 6 Dasher, so the "homework" was done pre-make.. I have started with Berger 105 Hybrids and Varget powder. I shot enough "fireformed" loads to work the barrel into a good "break-in" period. Then I started with 31.5, 31.7, 31.9, 32.1, 32.3, 32.5, 32.7 and 33.0grs of Varget, using CCI 450's.. I originally set the seating depth to 15K OFF the lands. I "settled" on 32.5 as it was the ONLY load that did not produce a "FLYER".. So I then took that load to 10K IN the lands, 5K IN the lands, 5K Off the lands, 10K, 15K (again) and 20K Off.. In each case the 15-20K OFF the lands produced EXCELLENT 3-4 shot groups>>>BUT in all but one, the groups produced some fairly BAD flyers. At the lower end of the spectrum, the groups were not good to begin with, til I hit the 32.1, then from there on up I got either 3 or 4 shots in a VERY tight group, generally at or under 3/4", with one or at the most 2 flyers! >>>all testing was done at 300 yards.<<< How does a rifle shoot TINY dots with 3 or 4 shots and end up with groups, including flyers, at or slightly above 1.5"!! QUESTION: Do y'all think it may be the powder and I need to try RL-15 or do you think the rifle is telling me it does NOT like the 105Hybrids? OR is there something else I need to look at?
6 Dasher Problems - Help Please>> UPDATE
- Thread starter ShootDots
- Start date
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
Didn't you give up on the 6x47 Lapua for the same reason? Maybe it's not the caliber but something wrong with your gun? Is it the same gun?
Didn't you give up on the 6x47 Lapua for the same reason? Maybe it's not the caliber but something wrong with your gun? Is it the same gun?
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
In my 6XC long-range rifle (Quadlite, Bartlein 1:8 5R 30", Master Class laminated stock, mostly iron sights) both Berger's 105 VLD and Hybrid (seated 0.020" off the lands and both home-coated with hBN powder) shoot virtually the same - excellent - but I'm not a BR shooter so my tolerance for 'flyers' is probably lower as long as they still land inside the 10-ring @ 600 or 1,000 yards.
You didn't mention what action you chose, what stock, or who did the 'putting together' either. Too, what brand of optics will have an efffect. There's been a lot of static about some NightForce models used at the recent F-Class Worlds & Nationals at Raton that didn't live up to expectations among this most discerning group of shooters.
Are the flyers just random or do you see a pattern where they tend to end up?
In my 6XC long-range rifle (Quadlite, Bartlein 1:8 5R 30", Master Class laminated stock, mostly iron sights) both Berger's 105 VLD and Hybrid (seated 0.020" off the lands and both home-coated with hBN powder) shoot virtually the same - excellent - but I'm not a BR shooter so my tolerance for 'flyers' is probably lower as long as they still land inside the 10-ring @ 600 or 1,000 yards.
You didn't mention what action you chose, what stock, or who did the 'putting together' either. Too, what brand of optics will have an efffect. There's been a lot of static about some NightForce models used at the recent F-Class Worlds & Nationals at Raton that didn't live up to expectations among this most discerning group of shooters.
Are the flyers just random or do you see a pattern where they tend to end up?
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
Hey Erik... I still have my 6 x 47... My 6mmBR was getting way on the rough side ( over 2K rounds thru it) and accuracy was diminished to a substantial degree... So I changed the barrel on it and had Omar make the dasher for me. I have been "working" with my 6 x 47 and have found a VERY, VERY good load... I almost gave up on it, BUT I kept working and now I got an awesome (repeatable) load. It is still shooting the 115DTAC's at 3015 with 38.1grs. of H4350 and Rem 7 1/2 primers. E.S.'s are 9-12 and groups at 600 (2 different days) were 5 shots just at 2".. I then shot a 10 shot group out there and the vertical was only a shade over an inch and horizontally it went to just under 3" in about a 5-6m.p.h. wind.. The 6 x 47 is now one of my best shooters>>>>to think I almost gave up on it! Now, mind you, I just started a week ago on the Dasher>>> I spoke with Donovan Moran who has given me some ideas to test, I wanted to see if anyone else has a brainstorm to help out..
Hey Erik... I still have my 6 x 47... My 6mmBR was getting way on the rough side ( over 2K rounds thru it) and accuracy was diminished to a substantial degree... So I changed the barrel on it and had Omar make the dasher for me. I have been "working" with my 6 x 47 and have found a VERY, VERY good load... I almost gave up on it, BUT I kept working and now I got an awesome (repeatable) load. It is still shooting the 115DTAC's at 3015 with 38.1grs. of H4350 and Rem 7 1/2 primers. E.S.'s are 9-12 and groups at 600 (2 different days) were 5 shots just at 2".. I then shot a 10 shot group out there and the vertical was only a shade over an inch and horizontally it went to just under 3" in about a 5-6m.p.h. wind.. The 6 x 47 is now one of my best shooters>>>>to think I almost gave up on it! Now, mind you, I just started a week ago on the Dasher>>> I spoke with Donovan Moran who has given me some ideas to test, I wanted to see if anyone else has a brainstorm to help out..
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
Phil, the cases are freshly annealed and the neck tension is 1.5K and the bullets enter and seat like smooth butter. The "nuts and bolts" have been taken care of.. Cases trimmed, annealed, bullets "tested" base to ogive, etc..etc.. All the "normal" stuff has been done.. That's why this is baffling to me..
Phil, the cases are freshly annealed and the neck tension is 1.5K and the bullets enter and seat like smooth butter. The "nuts and bolts" have been taken care of.. Cases trimmed, annealed, bullets "tested" base to ogive, etc..etc.. All the "normal" stuff has been done.. That's why this is baffling to me..
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
Well, I used to shoot Varget too, at least for Palma.
Then I 'discovered' how consistent a load I could get using IMR's then-new 8208XBR in the 6XC. I'd bought some to try in Palma loads but it took awhile for me to get around to actually using it for that.
Works great there too as it turned out.
You have a set of quality hardware that should work well in practice, given your prior results in a similar caliber cartridge.
Were I in your position I'd try a different propellant first, or a different brand / lot of primers. (My preference is Wolf KVB-223REM for both Palma and 6XC but keep in mind I made up 100 6XC cases out of Lapua Palma brass. It's worth the trouble IMHO.)
Well, I used to shoot Varget too, at least for Palma.
Then I 'discovered' how consistent a load I could get using IMR's then-new 8208XBR in the 6XC. I'd bought some to try in Palma loads but it took awhile for me to get around to actually using it for that.
Works great there too as it turned out.
You have a set of quality hardware that should work well in practice, given your prior results in a similar caliber cartridge.
Were I in your position I'd try a different propellant first, or a different brand / lot of primers. (My preference is Wolf KVB-223REM for both Palma and 6XC but keep in mind I made up 100 6XC cases out of Lapua Palma brass. It's worth the trouble IMHO.)
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
SP, at this point, other than changing powders and possibly bullets, I am at a loss.. However, experience in other cartridges has led me to believe that powder(s) are the single most important "leg" of the accuracy table>>>with bullets running a VERY close second.. I have had "sticky" issues in rifles before and have overcome them. I will here too>>>just trying to find a REALLY good place to start to save time and $$$'s with components..
SP, at this point, other than changing powders and possibly bullets, I am at a loss.. However, experience in other cartridges has led me to believe that powder(s) are the single most important "leg" of the accuracy table>>>with bullets running a VERY close second.. I have had "sticky" issues in rifles before and have overcome them. I will here too>>>just trying to find a REALLY good place to start to save time and $$$'s with components..
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
I agree in part but where you include bullets I'd be more inclined to put primers.
In your case both bullets ought to be well-proven choices. They work for me, they should for you too as they do for others.
Testing for accuracy can get really frustrating & I know you might not like having to "try something different" at this point but that may be your only option.
Question is: what to try?
I'd have to say whatever's easiest for you. Can you get / do you have another suitable powder on hand? Maybe a few hundred BR-4's on the shelf?
If you lived anywhere within 75-100 miles of me I'd offer you some of my stash of stuff to mess with, just to 'see what happens' & maybe help you over a rough patch....
I agree in part but where you include bullets I'd be more inclined to put primers.
In your case both bullets ought to be well-proven choices. They work for me, they should for you too as they do for others.
Testing for accuracy can get really frustrating & I know you might not like having to "try something different" at this point but that may be your only option.
Question is: what to try?
I'd have to say whatever's easiest for you. Can you get / do you have another suitable powder on hand? Maybe a few hundred BR-4's on the shelf?
If you lived anywhere within 75-100 miles of me I'd offer you some of my stash of stuff to mess with, just to 'see what happens' & maybe help you over a rough patch....
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
SP, I have every conceivable primer except Tulas... The CCI 450's are getting me E.S.'s in the 6-9f.p.s. range... Those numbers are going to be very hard to beat. At one point, I DID try Fed 205GM's on 2 loads, the 450's outperformed them in both accuracy AND e.s.'s... I did not mention it because it was inconsequential.. On the various "forums / sites" it appears that the VAST majority of Dasher users, use either RL-15 OR Varget and almost all use CCI 450's also>>>which proved to be the case in my efforts too.
SP, I have every conceivable primer except Tulas... The CCI 450's are getting me E.S.'s in the 6-9f.p.s. range... Those numbers are going to be very hard to beat. At one point, I DID try Fed 205GM's on 2 loads, the 450's outperformed them in both accuracy AND e.s.'s... I did not mention it because it was inconsequential.. On the various "forums / sites" it appears that the VAST majority of Dasher users, use either RL-15 OR Varget and almost all use CCI 450's also>>>which proved to be the case in my efforts too.
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
22BRGUY, I shoot 5 shots, wait til the barrel is "cooler"...It WON"T get cool down here in Houston, unless you wait 30-45 mins or more between shooting those groups. So I try and keep the barrel only slightly "warm".. I shot 25 shots today (5/ 5 shot groups) and it took almost 2 hours. That's the best info I can provide you..
22BRGUY, I shoot 5 shots, wait til the barrel is "cooler"...It WON"T get cool down here in Houston, unless you wait 30-45 mins or more between shooting those groups. So I try and keep the barrel only slightly "warm".. I shot 25 shots today (5/ 5 shot groups) and it took almost 2 hours. That's the best info I can provide you..
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
Kreiger is a well-deserved 'top notch' supplier of match-quality barrels.
That being said, they (and other brands) suffer a 'bad one' once in awhile.
If you feel you've fired enough rounds for this barrel to have 'settled in' as desired, maybe it's time to have a look at the inside? By somebody (you, your gunsmith, somebody at Kreiger) who can tell from what they see if there's a flaw that could be responsible?
Some barrels shoot great after ten rounds. Others can take a couple hundred, sometimes more.
Kreiger is a well-deserved 'top notch' supplier of match-quality barrels.
That being said, they (and other brands) suffer a 'bad one' once in awhile.
If you feel you've fired enough rounds for this barrel to have 'settled in' as desired, maybe it's time to have a look at the inside? By somebody (you, your gunsmith, somebody at Kreiger) who can tell from what they see if there's a flaw that could be responsible?
Some barrels shoot great after ten rounds. Others can take a couple hundred, sometimes more.
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
No Sir... It is T-Totally random.. I have had it (the flyers) the 1st and everything between it and the last. They are not just "minor" flyers... They go anywhere from 3/4" to 1.5" away from the tight groups.. They also can be anywhere around the clock, no special "landing" place for them..
No Sir... It is T-Totally random.. I have had it (the flyers) the 1st and everything between it and the last. They are not just "minor" flyers... They go anywhere from 3/4" to 1.5" away from the tight groups.. They also can be anywhere around the clock, no special "landing" place for them..
Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please
I had my 'Smith look at it already>>>it is like clean glass on the inside>>slick, slick... No problems... I have thought about using S-L-O-W-E-R powders, and I may in time>>> But virtually every Benchrest shooter, shoots either RL-15 or Varget.. I will "wear out their welcome" before I go on to "something out of the norm">> BUT not out of the question!
I had my 'Smith look at it already>>>it is like clean glass on the inside>>slick, slick... No problems... I have thought about using S-L-O-W-E-R powders, and I may in time>>> But virtually every Benchrest shooter, shoots either RL-15 or Varget.. I will "wear out their welcome" before I go on to "something out of the norm">> BUT not out of the question!
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