6 Dasher, BRX, 6CM,6SLR

[Tim Singleton]

I really appreciate all the feed back.

I believe I'm going to go straight 6br 8 twist. I will never be shooting past 600 yards and that will be on a rare occasion.

Thanks again

 

[fdshuster]

bob3700: I absolutely agree with you as it relates to the 6BRX versus the 6BR. At 500 rounds fired I saw the beginning of some serious firecracking in the throat (with my Hawkeye borescope), with the BRX, but with my 8 twist BR's the same firecracking was not an issue until a little over 1000 rounds. I've had to retire, or setback several 6BR barrels at slightly over 2000 rounds, but by 1500 the BRX was done.

Not mentioned was my experience with primer pockets. At between 12 to 15 loadings with the BRX the primer pockets had opened up enough that the brass went into the scrap can. That really hurt after all the fire-forming work (including a few splits in the case shoulders) that went into making the BRX brass.
On the other hand, my plain old 6BR Lapua brass has 40+ loadings & the primer pockets are tight as new.
The price you pay for the higher pressures of the "improved" cases.

Compared side-by-side, short range group sizes were always smaller with the 6BR, and never saw any measurable improvement in group sizes at longer distances in the wind, with the BRX. Also do not like the 1/10" shorter case neck lenght's.

For 600 yards and less, the plain old, time proven 6BR will meet my needs. For longer distances, yes the "improved" cartridges, like the Dasher, can be an advantage as proven by their records. But there is also the choice of going with a larger case powder capacity like the 6.5x47L.

 

[johara1]

Bob, I was a master in the 60's, I done it for a long time so i know about the sling shooting. I can and do read the wind and it may take a lot of time to get them down there or maybe a min. depending on the condition.I think its easy with some one showing me the hit under that condition. As far as heat i saw so much heat in the barrel the cleaning rod burnt your hands, so how hot is the barrel. I shoot heavy with my light gun and it may get 20 rds in 6-7 min. so you may want to rethink your statement about hot. I shot on my belly with a M 14 and shot a lot of cleans so i know the game, a 1/4 min. gun is completive in that maybe a 1/2 will let you win. It's a different game. Put the guns you use on a bench and do you think they would be equal against a BR gun. 15-25 seconds between shots? I pulled more targets than i care to remember and it better be around 12- 15 seconds. I guess i learned and shot in the USMC. and they were very competitive, and only a few i shot with are still alive so i have to shoot BR.because i can't get down in the dirt anymore. I still enjoy the competition at a less physical degree.......jim

 

[Bob3700]

Jim,

If you shot back in the 60, guess you never shot at Buntner with the automatic target system. You wish that you got 12-15 second target service. Takes that long for the electric motor to just lower the target.

Ever shoot three to the mound or pair fire and have to wait minutes for your turn to shoot. Different games my man, different games.

Your the man, I tip my hat to your superior experience.

Bob

 

[Bob3700]

Donovan,

Like the borescope picture. What do you do on a regular basis to keep the throats on your bbls smooth?

I believe that is the key to extending the bbl life on any of these hotter cartridges.

Bob

 

[Rtheurer]

Donovan

I see a little toolling marks in that groove. The Lands on each side look nice and smooth with a nicely finish lapping. I find that barrel's like this collect a fair amount of carbon and copper in the corners of the land and groove. Keeping this clean can be a challange some times, I like to give it a few strokes of JB or Flitz ~ 500 rounds ish.
Back around 2007 or 2008 The Team's rifle builder asked me what I was doing to keep my Service Rilfes barrels clean. It turned out that my barrels showed less throat errosion than every other team members rifles. We shot the exact same loads so it had to be the cleaning technique. I detailed the cleaning regiment and we came to the conclusion that keeping that Carbon build up out of the throat area helped reduce errosion for some reason.
Same thing with the 6.5X284, have never had a barrel let loose less than 1200 rounds and will still shoot 200/200 cleans at 1000 yrds when I yank them off. I only pull them off so I can start a new season with a fresh barrel and hit Camp Perry with a rifle that has 800 to 900 rounds on it.

Nice picture of your borescope, Mcgowen.
RussT

 

[fdshuster]

dmoran: Not one barrel, but two, both Kriegers. One was a sub performer when chambered in 6BRX, was used for fire-forming. When the other barrel was pulled off & I got out of the 6BRX "business", the fire-forming barrel was setback & rechambered to 6BR. It now shoots right alongside my other 6BR's & I would not hesitate to use it in a match, so at least with that barrel, nothing wrong with it.

I have and use my borescope all the time & closely monitor the throat (and the entire bore) for copper & more importantly, carbon buildup. It is kept under control with applications of JB, as required.

For me the combination of (1) less accuracy than my 6BR's, (2) earlier fire-cracking than the 6BR's, (3) very short case life compared to the 6BR's, (4), the work involved in fire-forming, (5) the 1/10" shorter case neck length, (6) and finally, the fact that I just do not "need" the added performance of an "improved" cartridge for my range availability limitations of 600 yards maximum, all came together to put an end to my 6BRX chamberings. The time proven 6BR's do everything I need them to do.

Forgot to mention: Used one of my switch-barrels, pulled off the 6BR barrel & had the first 6BRX installed. Immediately began blanking primers. There seems to be some question on the proper term, but the primers (CCIBR4 & 450's) had clean holes punched out of the center of the primers. Never had that problem when the rifle was a 6BR. Had to send the bolt to Gre-Tan to have the firing pin bushed. Solved that problem. Then the primer pockets started opening up. All signs of high pressure. Guess I could have reduced the powder charge (33 grs. of Varget w/ 105 Bergers was the standard load), but what's the point of a BRX if the ballistics are the same or close to a 6BR?

Just my experience with an "improved" cartridge, for me, not a good one.

A long winded, rambling posting, I know, so will be quiet now. Sorry. :-[

 

[johara1]

Frank, i have new Kreiger barrels that were never any good,i use them to FF. the Brux barrels 5 of them are a different story.
Bob, I shot into the 70's xc, i never new Butner was there, only small matches was Oak Ridge. I think Butner is a N.G. base.
I wish i could do that stuff now, i even had to go left handed with the loss of my right eye, that makes it a little more of a challenge......... jim

 

[fdshuster]

Jim: Krieger is my number 1 choice, have bought well over a dozen & never had a bad one yet. If the problem with the fire-forming barrel was the barrel (Krieger) itself, why was it mediocre when a 6BRX, but excellent when re-chambered to a 6BR? The other Krieger 6BRX was "good", but with all the other pressure related problems, the cartridge was not for me, so it had to go.

Krieger, Bartlein & Harts (one on order "as we speak") have all been trouble-free when chambered in 6ppc's and 6BR's.

I've often thought that a cartridge (6BR for example) is designed by engineers (at Remington for the original 6BR Remington) to withstand "X" amount of pressure, with case head & web thickness to withstand those pressures, with a safety margin. Then someone comes along & designs an "improved" round by blowing out the shoulder to hold more powder & give higher velocities. And it works, but at the cost of operating closer to the red line of maximum pressures, and sometimes (?) going over that red line limitation. My congratulations to all those who have success, as witnessed by the excellent showings with the 6Dashers. I envy their results.

 

[treeman]

I for one would go with one of the 6brs for any kind of slow fire . if rapid fire of any kind was expected I'd go with 6mm slr for better feeding/ ejection...just my thoughts,
Darrell

 

[lloydx2]

WOW. 3200 rounds and no visible firecracking. What kind of steel is that. You can still see the lap finish.

 

[johara1]

Frank, I anneal every time and i'm still using brass with over 30 firings on them, i see no reason not to keep using them. The only loose primer pockets are the one that were loose when new. The oldest Brux still shoots in a tenth and i see no reason to stop using it, i try to stay ahead of the fire cracking. The barrel like the wind is the main reason ...... jim

 

[birdog]

The BR Improveds are OK up to one mile.
Not sure if the plain 6 BR would be up to the task
at 1,000 PLUS

 

[birdog]

view from one mile

 

[fdshuster]

birdog: "Not sure if the plain 6BR would be up to the task at 1000 plus". Of course it's not. Never designed or intended to be used at those distances. To expect a cartridge with an average of 30 grains of case powder capacity to be usable at those distances is not realistic.

And, for those of us who do not have the availability of distances much beyond 600 yards, (many not even that far), it's all a moot point.

What the "plain 6BR" is, is an excellent, proven accuracy round for distances up to around 600 yards. Want to go out further, get a bigger cartridge, if not an "improved", then there are many 6.5, 7mm, and 30 cals. to choose from, some superior to the "improved" 6mm's.

 

[DukeDuke]

Good shooting birdog!!!

 

[Gman]

This has been a very interesting read. With that being said, if shooting at 600 yards and closer, I still believe that the 6BR is an excellent choice.

 

[giuliano]

I owned a 6dasher, that I use in competition from 500 to 1000 meters. With this rifle my personal best

result was been of 6 rounds at 1000 meter in 75mm (roughly 3") .

I want to tell you that it's hard to believe that for only 3-4 grains more of powder

the barrel life it's reduced from 3000 rounds (6br) to 1000 rounds for a 6dasher/6brx.

it's very strange.

 

[johara1]

You will find that i just set one back with 3000+ rds. and it's last group was in the 4's for ten rds. the other barrel set back has 2000+ and set a record. My old ff. barrel can still win a match,so most of what you hear is BS. Dasher barrel life is strong.......... jim

 

[bozo699]

I think that the speed at which the rifle is being fired and the amount of shots fired on each match has a lot to do with barrel life.
Wayne.