6 ARC for youth.

[David Milisock]

So basically because you didn't use silencers to introduce your kids to firearms there's no benefit to anyone else to do so? Cool story.

How did you get to that? Where did you go to college?

In fact I did quite a bit of firearm training with my children using suppressors.

If you use a suppressor with supersonic ammunition then you have to use ear protection, which is greater? What you lose by not acclimating the shooter to dealing with concussion or what you gain by using a suppressor?

In your experience exactly what is the gain you get by using a suppressor when training.

 

[DHD]

Anyway, good on you CJ6 on wanting a suppressor for your 6ARC. Just in case you are unaware, many 223/5.56 suppressors are also 6mm.

My Polonium is an example, and when my RA LS-5TI came in some months back, I measured the front hole and said hmmmm. I emailed Radical and they asked for my serial # and said yes, mine was also good for 6mm.

My DA Nomad 30 also works well on my multiple 6ARC's, if not quite as quiet as the Polonium or RA LS-5TI.

None of my suppressors are "user serviceable" but when I feel like it, they will go in some Breakthrough. I wouldn't worry about cleaning a suppressor too much as it can be done on a sealed one and they don't have multiple threads that can loosen. Loose threads would be more of a concern for me than carbon inside of my cans.

Like Rob01 said, when January comes around, the lines will be long and the manufacturers will be trying to keep up.

 

[JaoeyP]

How did you get to that? Where did you go to college?

In fact I did quite a bit of firearm training with my children using suppressors.

If you use a suppressor with supersonic ammunition then you have to use ear protection, which is greater? What you lose by not acclimating the shooter to dealing with concussion or what you gain by using a suppressor?

In your experience exactly what is the gain you get by using a suppressor when training.

Missouri State University, School of Business, cum laude , class of 05.

I got there because you are arguing against the use of suppressors for introducing new shooters to the sport.

Why does it have to be either ear pro OR suppressors? The answer here is BOTH. I've said this already on this thread. Did you not read? Do you not comprehend?

You acclimate the shooter by basically doing what you did. Start with rimfire. Shorter sessions. Work to a center fire cartridge. Again shorter sessions. Move on from there. But you do all of it suppressed.

If a shooter has access to a suppressor why must they acclimate to a blast? Can't they just shoot suppressed all the time?

What is gained with a suppressor? Noise and recoil reduction. Again, can you read? It's a more enjoyable way to shoot.

 

[David Milisock]

Missouri State University, School of Business, cum laude , class of 05.

I got there because you are arguing against the use of suppressors for introducing new shooters to the sport.

Why does it have to be either ear pro OR suppressors? The answer here is BOTH. I've said this already on this thread. Did you not read? Do you not comprehend?

You acclimate the shooter by basically doing what you did. Start with rimfire. Shorter sessions. Work to a center fire cartridge. Again shorter sessions. Move on from there. But you do all of it suppressed.

If a shooter has access to a suppressor why must they acclimate to a blast? Can't they just shoot suppressed all the time?

What is gained with a suppressor? Noise and recoil reduction. Again, can you read? It's a more enjoyable way to shoot.

Ok, some extremely sensitive individual who is not properly acclimated to the concussion of not only un suppressed firearms but a heavy concussion producing firearm. This person is on the line with a shooter shooting Barrett 50BMG with a 50 degree brake. How do you expect them to react when that thing touches off?

I never said it has to be ear pro or suppressors, it can be neither or both. My point is one needs to understand that training can determine good reactions and mitigate poor reactions. SAFETY FIRST!

Examine this, you train people with firearms. Is it your responsibility to evaluate the perspective shooter for stability? You bet it is! Are you are aware that a new shooter has very little to no chance of evaluating your value as a firearms trainer? Unfortunately a firearm training certification means very litte today, much like many other degrees and certifications.

So I can be confident that a shooter will be on line with unsuppressed firearms. So maybe being acclimated to concussion would be a reasonable idea to enhance the person's shooting experience.

I trained my children with hearing protection starting low and going big, then with using suppressors. Because, by not doing so I would be negligent as a father and a trainer. NOTE suppressors not silencers.

While I currently do not own a suppressor I have over 50 years of experience with them. If you got'em, smoke'em, just understand the safety parameters, I get it, shooting suppressed (on the range or in the field alone) you can shoot only using ear plugs.

Unfortunately just last week AGAIN I sat at the bench beside a shooter who was disappointed because his 6.5 PRC with a suppressor was to loud to shoot without hearing prprotectionI guess his certified training officer didn't explain that to him.

(You may want a bit of a refund the money spent on that MSU degree, you paid for cum laude)

 

[CJ6]

To try and get this thread back on track.
It's not just a hearing issue with my granddaughter. Her body (nerves) are sensitive throughout. This is why I picked the smaller cartridge 6 ARC to lesson the impact to her. The can is too work with all of this (my first can).
As to the self serviceable aspect, I was going on the advice of an old friend that had several.
Reading some of the posts and PMs I'm up in the air about which style as of yet.
I still would like to see more options as to make and models though.
TIA.

 

[JaoeyP]

To try and get this thread back on track.
It's not just a hearing issue with my granddaughter. Her body (nerves) are sensitive throughout. This is why I picked the smaller cartridge 6 ARC to lesson the impact to her. The can is too work with all of this (my first can).
As to the self serviceable aspect, I was going on the advice of an old friend that had several.
Reading some of the posts and PMs I'm up in the air about which style as of yet.
I still would like to see more options as to make and models though.
TIA.

For this, I recommend a can specifically designed for bolt guns. The Nomad TiXC from Dead Air would be great. Lightweight, designed for bolt guns, great sound reduction. Full disclosure, I currently work indirectly for Dead Air so I am biased toward their product. Essentially you're looking for something with modified k-baffles. Titanium would be great for weight savings. Steel cans will also work great, they'll just be heavy. Whatever you end up with, this should be a great rig for getting her started. I'm a big fan of 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel for getting kids started whitetail hunting.

As far as disassembling, you really don't need to. Cans really don't need cleaned for several thousand rounds. The Breakthrough kits, although expensive work insanely well. We cleaned a can with over 20k rounds through it. Soaked it over night. Came out with the insides looking brand new.

 

[JaoeyP]

Ok, some extremely sensitive individual who is not properly acclimated to the concussion of not only un suppressed firearms but a heavy concussion producing firearm. This person is on the line with a shooter shooting Barrett 50BMG with a 50 degree brake. How do you expect them to react when that thing touches off?

I never said it has to be ear pro or suppressors, it can be neither or both. My point is one needs to understand that training can determine good reactions and mitigate poor reactions. SAFETY FIRST!

Examine this, you train people with firearms. Is it your responsibility to evaluate the perspective shooter for stability? You bet it is! Are you are aware that a new shooter has very little to no chance of evaluating your value as a firearms trainer? Unfortunately a firearm training certification means very litte today, much like many other degrees and certifications.

So I can be confident that a shooter will be on line with unsuppressed firearms. So maybe being acclimated to concussion would be a reasonable idea to enhance the person's shooting experience.

I trained my children with hearing protection starting low and going big, then with using suppressors. Because, by not doing so I would be negligent as a father and a trainer. NOTE suppressors not silencers.

While I currently do not own a suppressor I have over 50 years of experience with them. If you got'em, smoke'em, just understand the safety parameters, I get it, shooting suppressed (on the range or in the field alone) you can shoot only using ear plugs.

Unfortunately just last week AGAIN I sat at the bench beside a shooter who was disappointed because his 6.5 PRC with a suppressor was to loud to shoot without hearing prprotectionI guess his certified training officer didn't explain that to him.

(You may want a bit of a refund the money spent on that MSU degree, you paid for cum laude)

I did try to ask for some of that money back from MSU but when they asked if I was smart enough not to put my kids next to a 50 bmg with a brake and I told them I was they denied the refund.

 

[CJ6]

For this, I recommend a can specifically designed for bolt guns. The Nomad TiXC from Dead Air would be great. Lightweight, designed for bolt guns, great sound reduction. Full disclosure, I currently work indirectly for Dead Air so I am biased toward their product. Essentially you're looking for something with modified k-baffles. Titanium would be great for weight savings. Steel cans will also work great, they'll just be heavy. Whatever you end up with, this should be a great rig for getting her started. I'm a big fan of 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel for getting kids started whitetail hunting.

As far as disassembling, you really don't need to. Cans really don't need cleaned for several thousand rounds. The Breakthrough kits, although expensive work insanely well. We cleaned a can with over 20k rounds through it. Soaked it over night. Came out with the insides looking brand new.

Weight isn't as important as recoil/sound suppression.
I actually am going to order the weighted stock system from Ruger to help further reduce recoil for her, another plus for this particular platform.

 

[JaoeyP]

Weight isn't as important as recoil/sound suppression.
I actually am going to order the weighted stock system from Ruger to help further reduce recoil for her, another plus for this particular platform.

I can't say what makes a difference for the recoil aspect of cans (other than the brakes you can add that will increase the noise) but if you're going for maximum sound reduction out of a bolt can with k-baffles overall volume makes a difference. Adding length and circumference makes for a quieter can.

Edit to add, Nomad 30 is a steel can would work great. I've also heard good things about the Otter Creek Palonium.

 

[Rob01]

Weight isn't as important as recoil/sound suppression.
I actually am going to order the weighted stock system from Ruger to help further reduce recoil for her, another plus for this particular platform.

The can weight won’t help or hurt recoil. I would get the Nomad Ti XC as it will work great and is quiet. I have used it on my .308 on down and it works. No tax stamp either so saves you $200.

 

[SD guy]

Can vs no can, I would imagine most all of the suppressors you consider will do very well for the task at hand. You can weight the stock if you wish though I doubt this will offer any appreciable benefit in a system that is already very low recoil. I would give a 80 to 90 all copper projectile serious consideration though. Hammer likely offers a lighter bullet yet that would serve the purpose well.

Have you looked at the Banish 30-V2 If this were my choice I think this is where I would be leaning. Hope to hear from some here that have actual experience.

 

[Clancy]

@CJ6 one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is bullet weight. I don’t know where you hunt but depending on the size of the deer you may or may not need a heavy.

I’m bringing this up because I would most definitely have her practice with a light load with a 68 class bullet. There’s a substantial difference in recoil between that and a 108 elite hunter or similar. Much more difference than you’ll see by going to a steel can vs titanium.

 

[SD guy]

I would agree regarding bullet weight. one of these 75 gr Hammer HHT at 3000 fps to 3300 FPS would be outstanding I would expect. my only experience on game with the Hammer offerings, was the 87 gr absolute Hammer. No disappointment's on 2 white tail does.

6mm ARC

docs.google.com

 

[CJ6]

@CJ6 one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is bullet weight. I don’t know where you hunt but depending on the size of the deer you may or may not need a heavy.

I’m bringing this up because I would most definitely have her practice with a light load with a 68 class bullet. There’s a substantial difference in recoil between that and a 108 elite hunter or similar. Much more difference than you’ll see by going to a steel can vs titanium.

Looking at 85 gr. Sierras (1530s) or Noslers.
A big deer around here would go 225-240 average would be 150-170. I don't see her taking much more than 200-250 yds at most.

 

[Oso]

CJ6

Putting aside everyone’s bias and preferences, the benefits of a suppressor are indisputable. Your granddaughter will benefit from reduced recoil, reduced noise, and less concussive force. Buy the best suppressor that your budget can afford. DeadAir and Thunderbeast are the gold standard. User serviceable suppressors are only critical for rimfire calibers because these small cartridges are dirty (primer compound, powder and exposed lead bullet) and their low pressure isn’t enough force to blow out most of the crap from building up inside the suppressor. Centerfire rifle cartridges burn much cleaner and have enough pressure to blowout the majority of carbon, unburnt powder and other “shmutz” from inside the can.

If you’re really concerned about keeping it pristine then buy a small ultrasonic cleaner (Amazon $65) and some of new suppressor cleaner. This will put all of you concerns to rest.

Enjoy spending time with your family making memories!

 

[David Milisock]

I did try to ask for some of that money back from MSU but when they asked if I was smart enough not to put my kids next to a 50 bmg with a brake and I told them I was they denied the refund.

I thought you were one of those, there is a large part of the next generation that's doomed! I'm afraid because I'm untrained. I'm untrained because those responsible for me didn't have any skills.

 

[David Milisock]

CJ6

Putting aside everyone’s bias and preferences, the benefits of a suppressor are indisputable. Your granddaughter will benefit from reduced recoil, reduced noise, and less concussive force. Buy the best suppressor that your budget can afford. DeadAir and Thunderbeast are the gold standard. User serviceable suppressors are only critical for rimfire calibers because these small cartridges are dirty (primer compound, powder and exposed lead bullet) and their low pressure isn’t enough force to blow out most of the crap from building up inside the suppressor. Centerfire rifle cartridges burn much cleaner and have enough pressure to blowout the majority of carbon, unburnt powder and other “shmutz” from inside the can.

If you’re really concerned about keeping it pristine then buy a small ultrasonic cleaner (Amazon $65) and some of new suppressor cleaner. This will put all of you concerns to rest.

Enjoy spending time with your family making memories!

I agree shoot suppressors all you want. Train them to use hearing protection with the can and hopefully when they will find no one else on the range wheen they shoot.

 

[David Milisock]

Looking at 85 gr. Sierras (1530s) or Noslers.
A big deer around here would go 225-240 average would be 150-170. I don't see her taking much more than 200-250 yds at most.

You do know that there is a $520 solution, a Howa Varmint in 223, light in noise, 20" heavy threaded barrel, 8 lbs (so near zero recoil) all you need is a scope and a can if you want.
My granddaughter shoots one that's about 25 years old, she doesn't need a can she wears ear plugs and muffs.

 

[CJ6]

You do know that there is a $520 solution, a Howa Varmint in 223, light in noise, 20" heavy threaded barrel, 8 lbs (so near zero recoil) all you need is a scope and a can if you want.
My granddaughter shoots one that's about 25 years old, she doesn't need a can she wears ear plugs and muffs.

I looked into this one also. The Ruger has a more adjustable stock system which is the reason I chose it.
Cartridge/Caliber wise 6mm was as small as I wanted to go and with the 6 ARC being small cased with a decent ballistic profile I chose it.
I realize that there are some compromises being made but I think for her it's the better choice, not much recoil, enough energy on target to give the performance on game and good accuracy all while keeping her comfortable and enjoying shooting and hunting.

edit to add: The price of the Ruger was $549 so not much difference and no shipping.

 

[CJ6]

I agree shoot suppressors all you want. Train them to use hearing protection with the can and hopefully when they will find no one else on the range wheen they shoot.

She's a farm girl so no worries about company around when shooting.