6.5PRC N560 Berger 156 EOL

[Nimbus73]

I shot an initial work up a few weeks back in my Bergara HMR Pro 26", and began to question my results. The group wasn't as good as I expected. My ladder was N560 @51.5-56.0 in .5gr increments yielding a velocity range from 2749 to 2955 fps. I did not see any pressure signs at the higher charge weights, but the grouping got better despite not seeing a velocity node on my chart. So I ask, for the 156 Berger is N560 too fast of a powder? And what velocities should I expect from a 156gr Berger in a 26" pipe?

I also have Ramshot Grand, H1000 and H4831sc to try, but I initially bought the N560 for the 156. I am seeing good results with the H1000 and H4831sc in my 140gr Accubonds, and I tried the Ramshot Grand with the 143gr ELDx and will post another thread asking feedback on that as well.

I'll try to post my spreadsheet data when I can get back on my PC.

 

[Wally270]

I shot an initial work up a few weeks back in my Bergara HMR Pro 26", and began to question my results. The group wasn't as good as I expected. My ladder was N560 @51.5-56.0 in .5gr increments yielding a velocity range from 2749 to 2955 fps. I did not see any pressure signs at the higher charge weights, but the grouping got better despite not seeing a velocity node on my chart. So I ask, for the 156 Berger is N560 too fast of a powder? And what velocities should I expect from a 156gr Berger in a 26" pipe?

I also have Ramshot Grand, H1000 and H4831sc to try, but I initially bought the N560 for it the 156. I am seeing good results with the H1000 and H4831sc in my 140gr Accubonds, and I tried the Ramshot Grand with the 143gr ELDx and will post another thread asking feedback on that as well.

I'll try to post my spreadsheet data when I can get back on my PC.

I got the best results with my 6.5 PRC using N565. My rifle shot H1000 ok, but N565 really made it come alive. Good luck.
Steve

 

[FeMan]

You say you didnt find a velocity node on your chart. IMO, looking for a velocity node anywhere but on the target is a mistake. The target trumps all. There is so much going on in a rifle that affect tuning that are far more important to accuracy and tuning that completely trump ES/SD.

I also use the standard of 1/2% in powder charge increments. You are twice that. Its possible you skipped over some too.

The groups below were shot from my 6.5 PRC (153.5s and H1000). The 100 yard groups were fantastic and the ES/SDs amazing as well. This rifle however was in an anti-node and shot 1 moa of vertical at 800 yards. My 284 has an ES in the 40 fps range and shoots 0.2 moa or less of vertical out to 1400 yards.

 

[Relic]

I initially started my 6.5 prc loads with h1000 and it was OK. But moved to N565 and the groups got smaller. Sd & es also came down. I've been shooting 147 & 150's .25 moa @ 3000sh from a 26" tube. Try it!

 

[Nimbus73]

FeMan, you're probably right. Nice shot groups you have. I'm not sure I can see well enough to achieve that but that is my goal. Tight groups. I'm probably not using the right terminology and for my interpretation of a true ladder test or ocw for that matter I should be testing at further ranges than what I had available. I do look at target data 1st, but I try to correlate bullet impacts with said velocity for each respective shot. I'm not a seasoned loader by any means of the imagination so that's why I'm posting for feedback. I inserted my sheet in the 1st post for review. Maybe I did pass through one or more nodes and based on my target and the Chrono numbers I am going to look at a tighter charge weight say .2gr or . 3gr increments from 54.5 to 56 and probably up to 57 or pressure signs, whichever comes first. I seated at 2.261" from ogive, 2.952 coal because of magazine restrictions. I also will move down to a .290 bushing because on some of my Accubond tests on twice fired Norma brass, I did not have enough neck tension. I posted another thread about that. What is a realistic velocity for the 156 in a 26" barrel. I think 3000 is possible before I reach pressure, but I'm plenty satisfied with 2950-2975.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I shot an initial work up a few weeks back in my Bergara HMR Pro 26", and began to question my results. The group wasn't as good as I expected. My ladder was N560 @51.5-56.0 in .5gr increments yielding a velocity range from 2749 to 2955 fps. I did not see any pressure signs at the higher charge weights, but the grouping got better despite not seeing a velocity node on my chart. So I ask, for the 156 Berger is N560 too fast of a powder? And what velocities should I expect from a 156gr Berger in a 26" pipe?

I also have Ramshot Grand, H1000 and H4831sc to try, but I initially bought the N560 for the 156. I am seeing good results with the H1000 and H4831sc in my 140gr Accubonds, and I tried the Ramshot Grand with the 143gr ELDx and will post another thread asking feedback on that as well.

I'll try to post my spreadsheet data when I can get back on my PC.

Though I haven't used N560 in my 6.5 PRC, I'm pretty sure it NOT a "too fast" powder for you 156 Bergers. I've heard many others use the N560 with a lot of success for their 6.5 PRC. I've been using N565, which has worked very well with the heavy .264 bullets. H4831sc has also worked well for me for bullets from 140 grs to 153.5 grs, but it might be a little too hot for the 156 Bergers depending on what you're trying to achieve (e.g. higher velocities without pressure issues).

I agree with FeMan in that .5 gr increments can make it hard to find a good load by skipping over one. I still use .3 gr increments and this seems to work very well for me with this cartridge volume.

I do think you can reach 3,000 fps with the N560. Doing so, you're going to be right at the pressure threshold. Be careful there as warmers temperatures can push you well over.

 

[wasskeet]

I had same Bergara HMR Pro in 6.5 PRC. With N565 & 156 Berger's I maxed out at about 56.5gr, best accuracy at 55.5 - but I didn't have nearly the speed as many. I put 350-400 rounds down it and 2800-2825 was max. with good accuracy- about 3/8 to 1/2 MOA at 100, roughly 3/4 at 1000.

 

[Nimbus73]

I do think you can reach 3,000 fps with the N560. Doing so, you're going to be right at the pressure threshold. Be careful there as warmers temperatures can push you well over.

For sure. I started loading about a year ago now and was able to work up loads for two other cartridges and test them during the hot months here in SW Louisiana knowing that if I'm not over pressure then when fall rolls around (since we don't get real winters here, even though there is a slight chance frozen precipitation Monday or Tuesday) I would be good. I should have lots of stuff worked by the time it gets hot.

Besides, I can't say I'm a Berger fan or hater, but I'm just really curious as to how the heavy will perform. I've read great things about the accuracy potential of it and mixed reviews of them on game. I'm partial to Accubond. I'm about to load some TTSX for my 243 and my son's 308, and I have some TTSX shooting 1/2-3/4moa from my 6.8spc, just haven't seen how it performed on deer or hogs yet.

 

[Nimbus73]

I had same Bergara HMR Pro in 6.5 PRC. With N565 & 156 Berger's I maxed out at about 56.5gr, best accuracy at 55.5 - but I didn't have nearly the speed as many. I put 350-400 rounds down it and 2800-2825 was max. with good accuracy- about 3/8 to 1/2 MOA at 100, roughly 3/4 at 1000.

Good to know, I don't care very much about max speed. I just want to know for comparison to know if I'm in the ball park of getting the most out of it without pushing it to extremes. I don't have custom rifles with special machining on chambers, barrels, and such. I don't shoot completion, although I would like to shoot just for fun. I've only started loading because I've had an interest in it for proba

bly 20 years or more and finally decided to jump into the deep end and learn as much as I can.

Besides, I do believe my shooting has improved since I started loading. I definitely can tell when I finally find a load the gun really likes. What I can't tell is if the gun is doing the best it can do and that's just as good as it's gonna be.

 

[JB10]

I have 2 6.5 prcs both im using N565. One is with 156 bergers and other is 140 vld bergers. Small groups and good speeds

 

[Fast14riot]

Looking at your target in the spreadsheet, with velocities, loads 4,5,6 are where you should explore more. Very little vertical dispersion on target. 4 & 5 were very close in velocity, however with 6 printing very close vertically, that leaves you some room to allow temperature variation in the summer.

 

[FeMan]

I agree with Fast14riot. If there is a place to look, its in the range of 4 to 6.

One thing though is your combined group is wider than it is tall. That is a red flag and might suggest that your seating depth is not near optimal or probably more likely, that your rifle does not like the powder. Below is a powder ladder I shot with a 300 Norma at 800 yards. It illustrates the shape you want to see (tall and narrow).

There are several good suggestions above for other powders to try. I have had good enough luck with H1000 that I haven't tried the others.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

My grandson's 6.5 PRC, ( Savage Lite Hunter W / Factory 24" Proof Barrel, Now in, a Folding Chassis ) is getting group's in, the 3's to, 4's with,. N-565 powder, ADG Brass, F-210 M's and Berg. 140 gr., Elite Hunters at, 3,100+ FPS.
He couldn't get enough, StaBall HD in the Case to, exceed, 3,000 FPS ( Sadly, as we LIKE to, "Throw" Charges ).

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I have 2 6.5 prcs both im using N565. One is with 156 bergers and other is 140 vld bergers. Small groups and good speeds

Yup,. This,.. ^^^ A Great Powder for, the 6.5 PRC !

 

[barefooter56]

I shot an initial work up a few weeks back in my Bergara HMR Pro 26", and began to question my results. The group wasn't as good as I expected. My ladder was N560 @51.5-56.0 in .5gr increments yielding a velocity range from 2749 to 2955 fps. I did not see any pressure signs at the higher charge weights, but the grouping got better despite not seeing a velocity node on my chart. So I ask, for the 156 Berger is N560 too fast of a powder? And what velocities should I expect from a 156gr Berger in a 26" pipe?

I also have Ramshot Grand, H1000 and H4831sc to try, but I initially bought the N560 for the 156. I am seeing good results with the H1000 and H4831sc in my 140gr Accubonds, and I tried the Ramshot Grand with the 143gr ELDx and will post another thread asking feedback on that as well.

I'll try to post my spreadsheet data when I can get back on my PC.

Send an email to us at Support@capstonepg.com AND WE CAN HELP YOU WITH LOAD DATA and DEVELOPMENT INFO.

 

[DirtySteve]

I got this from Capstone a couple weeks ago..

 

[Nimbus73]

I got this from Capstone a couple weeks ago..

I have their book and if I remember correctly, that charge is what I saw for the N560 and 156 Berger also.

 

[Nimbus73]

One thing though is your combined group is wider than it is tall. That is a red flag and might suggest that your seating depth is not near optimal or probably more likely, that your rifle does not like the powder.

That could be me, too, lol. So, when I loaded these, I was leaving my farm to come home the next day and was on a time crunch. I just dropped a quick ladder and stuffed them to 2.95". I just loaded 10 more today but at a .2gr increment from 54.2gr-56.0gr and seated as long as I felt would be reliably feed from my magazine at 2.98" overall length. I could load them longer, but I would have to chamber them by hand so I won't even see how those would shoot. I also went down in size on my neck sizing bushing from a .292" to a .290" because I seemed to have some inconsistent neck tension on some Accubond loads I shot that day from the same brass. Looking at pressure tattletales, I may not make the last shots since I changed the seating depth, but I'll see. Also looking at my 6,7,8, and 9 shots, I got a .63moa 4 shot group and it is in a velocity range I want. When I test these out again, I'll revisit with my results

 

[Nimbus73]

Well I finally had a chance to shoot this load yesterday. Considering I was shooting in 15-20 mph winds I'm impressed with the results but I started getting ejector marks on the last 3 or 4 shots. I'm pretty sure 55.0gr will be my load. I'll do another verification test and post when I get a chance.Well

 

[mic2377]

I think velocities in the 2950-3000 range are a bit too high for 150+ gr class bullets in the PRC. 2850-2900 is more reasonable and will give you more breathing room at high temps.

You are seeing velocities that I would typically see with the 143 ELDX.

N560 should work fine, and it isn't too far off of burn rate compared to N565, the usual powder recommended. It is more temperature sensitive though. I have found N565 to be 100% equivalent to H1000 in my rifle on all terms.

Funny thing is despite how close N560 and N565 are, I have found there are applications were one is superior. N560 was a much better performer in my 22 Creed under the 80 ELDX than anything else, whereas N565/H1000 was the clear winner in the 6.5 PRC.