6.5 savage barrel issue

[Lkwebb]

I was having issue with my latest range day last week. When the RO called the line cold I extracted the live round and noticed marring on the bullet itself.
In double checked the seating depth on the 147 grain eld, 2.80 was the measurement. So I tried another and yet still marring the bullet.
So I bought a bore cam upon someone's suggestion and this is what I found.
At first I thought it could be reamer marks, then someone mention carbon( 130 rounds through the barrel)

 

[GenePoole]

What do the bullets look like?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The famous carbon ring. With 130rds it should have been cleaned a couple times at least. Thats going to take some paste and a bronze brush in the future

 

[tobnpr]

What 6.5 chambering, and what powder?

The only rifle I've ever had carbon ring with was an AR in 6.5 Grendel with 8208.

With little over 100 rounds down the tube, that's crazy.

 

[Bill K]

If you have only 130 round fired, how often did you clean the barrel prior to shooting and during shooting or after ?

 

[Lkwebb]

I cleaned it after 30 rounds and then after I got it back from the gunsmith after having short another 70 rounds through it

What do the bullets look like?

 

[Lkwebb]

The famous carbon ring. With 130rds it should have been cleaned a couple times at least. Thats going to take some paste and a bronze brush in the future

Well, I've tried Butches and Hoppes 9 in it and got it down to this point. Nobody in town has jb bore compound.

 

[Lkwebb]

What 6.5 chambering, and what powder?

The only rifle I've ever had carbon ring with was an AR in 6.5 Grendel with 8208.

With little over 100 rounds down the tube, that's crazy.

6.5 creedmoor with h4350

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Well, I've tried Butches and Hoppes 9 in it and got it down to this point. Nobody in town has jb bore compound.

Hoppes 9 wont do much. Did you use a bronze brush? What kind of boreguide are you using? As close as that is to the neck it may not be letting the brush get that spot

 

[Lkwebb]

Yes a bronze brush with the dewey rod bore guide...

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I cleaned it after 30 rounds and then after I got it back from the gunsmith after having short another 70 rounds through it

What did your gunsmith tell you about the problem?

 

[golong]

The cracking you see is NORMAL. It is where the first part of the barrel that gets flamed - there is a gap (depending on how much you trim) between the case mouth and that part of the barrel. It is also the part that the bullet is not touching when the round it chambered, although it may drag on it ever so slightly under the right circumstanced (large chamber, long seating depth). The carbon shown is not that bad and is going to impact the brass when the cartridge expands during firing if anything, but to me it does not look that severe. Even if it was, it would limit the ability to properly release the bullet and not do any damage during chambering.

I suspect you may have carbon farther up on the lands than you show in the photos, or you are running a light neck tension and throwing the bolt hard thus inertia is moving the bullet out of the case and jamming the lands, or the marks are from rubbing around in your ammo case and you just did not notice them before.

As for removing the carbon ring in the lands, I have used just about everything on and off the shelf. Some work but require a fair amount of working at it. Two weeks ago I ran across a post on primarrights.com - it is about cleaning, but most if it talks about using CLR. Others have posted in this forum and others about it, but mostly 'should I use it' type stuff. It is an interesting read given who told him to try it. Well, I tried it in the exact fashion instructed and it worked as he said it would. FWIW, my sticks are anything but off the shelf so for me it was not an easy decision to try it.

Edit: Another question would be is this a new rifle, or new barrel, or new to you rifle? It is possible the headspace is tighter than spec which would cause normal length ammo to get seated in to the lands.

 

[Lkwebb]

Here is a link to my youtube channel I have a video on there showing the lans etc.

I'm not anywhere near the Lans with my bullet depth, everything I have reloaded are at 2.80.
Secondly my bullets aren't rubbing in the ammo box.
This rifle I bought new in October of 2018 and round count is about 130

 

[Lkwebb]

What did your gunsmith tell you about the problem?

Didn't know I had a issue until afterwards, he only threaded and added a kdf muzzle brake

 

[Dgd6mm]

Good video. There are plenty of threads on here in the archives for going after carbon rings. The best way that I have found for myself, to keep a carbon ring at bay, is to pay a particular amount of TLC to that area everytime you clean. No matter if it's a heavy cleaning or a light one. There is not a cartridge that I shoot in any of my barrels that doesn't get polished with Iosso and Kroil every 250-300 rounds.

 

[golong]

Didn't know I had a issue until afterwards, he only threaded and added a kdf muzzle brake

If he threaded the barrel then it was taken off and put back on. Unless he created a witness mark it was not put back at the exact same headspace as it was when you dropped it off. You need to recheck your OGIVE dimensions as they have certainly moved. May or may not be the issue, but you do need to find out where it currently sits. You may have a situation where your headspace is too tight.

 

[rogina]

If he threaded the barrel then it was taken off and put back on. Unless he created a witness mark it was not put back at the exact same headspace as it was when you dropped it off. You need to recheck your OGIVE dimensions as they have certainly moved. May or may not be the issue, but you do need to find out where it currently sits. You may have a situation where your headspace is too tight.

I think he means the gunsmith threaded the muzzle.

 

[GenePoole]

He still would likely have removed the barrel to thread the muzzle--especially on a savage--but I doubt ogive change would leave marks that low on the bullet.

 

[golong]

He still would likely have removed the barrel to thread the muzzle--especially on a savage--but I doubt ogive change would leave marks that low on the bullet.

They are pretty low.

 

[golong]

Looked at this thread again and I keep coming back to headspace. There is no way you should have copper at the start of the lands like you have in the video, and the firecracking at the breach seems a bit excessive for 130 rounds. How is it to close the bolt - getting resistance as it is chambered?

You may want to go buy a box of factory ammo and see if they leave marks like that just by chambering and removing the rounds, and/or take it back to the smith and have him double check with a Go gauge. Also measure the OAL before and after they are chambered for both your loads and the factory rounds. Another thing is I hope you are not shooting that with oil/solvent in the chamber - guessing not, but a wet chamber creates excessive pressure.