6.5 Creedmoor Reloading Issues

[IowaGeologist]

Have you tried 200 yard groups? Some of the long bullets dont settle down right away.

Can someone explain the logic here? It's not the first time I've seen this statement made regarding group size.

Assuming you have a rifle that in 100 groups will not shoot under 0.5 MOA, what physical property of the bullet can make the trajectory bend itself back in to the zero spot to start shooting under 0.5 MOA at 200?

 

[Rob01]

Some people think that but the bullet is stable right out of the barrel and if it is it’s accurate at 100 and on. I see that posted other places too and just laugh.

 

[IowaGeologist]

Some people think that but the bullet is stable right out of the barrel and if it is it’s accurate at 100 and on. I see that posted other places too and just laugh.

Agreed. I could see incorrect parallax issues at 100 yards causing some problems for people that 200+ might solve.

 

[wkdickinson]

Here is an interesting read on the "going to sleep" concept, from a guy who really is a "rocket scientist":

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/2019/11/08/epicyclic-swerve/

 

[Hohn]

I don't put much stock if any in 3 shot groups, but if it will repeat that's definitely a workable load for almost all instances. Can you provide context for the 242-6x? Like what was the course of fire? Distance? F-face or regular? In our F-practical division in our club we shoot F-class faces with rifles mostly PRS-oriented (harris style bipod and squeeze bag), F-open caliber range but F TR weight limit. Most shooters in this division are running about 550/600 aggs, but that's because most of the shooters are newer types like me while the serious folks continue along in F/open and F/TR. Standard midrange COF: 20ea at 300/500/600 or 3x600.

My personal goal is getting my cheap 6.5 Savage to clean an F face at any midrange distance. But I'm a long way from that as I'm dropping 8-15 points per relay. I've cleaned a sling face with my AR, but that F face is a bugger.

 

[Texas10]

I don't put much stock if any in 3 shot groups, but if it will repeat that's definitely a workable load for almost all instances. Can you provide context for the 242-6x? Like what was the course of fire? Distance? F-face or regular? In our F-practical division in our club we shoot F-class faces with rifles mostly PRS-oriented (harris style bipod and squeeze bag), F-open caliber range but F TR weight limit. Most shooters in this division are running about 550/600 aggs, but that's because most of the shooters are newer types like me while the serious folks continue along in F/open and F/TR. Standard midrange COF: 20ea at 300/500/600 or 3x600.

My personal goal is getting my cheap 6.5 Savage to clean an F face at any midrange distance. But I'm a long way from that as I'm dropping 8-15 points per relay. I've cleaned a sling face with my AR, but that F face is a bugger.

I'm new to this so bear with me. Club shoot in Hunter Varmint Benchrest class. 100 yds, for score. Reference the target I posted. One shot per target, 5 targets per match, 5 matches per meet. Max score would be 250 and 25 X-s. I'd be happy just to clean the targets. No fantasies of out-shooting guys with full custom builds when using my Savage, just having fun and improving my skills. Last time out with 6BR Savage scored 246-5x, so beginning to get my stuff together.
The three shot group was the 6.5 CM at 300 yds, and was followed by another 3 shot group only slightly bigger.

AS I wrote, not even in the same league as many here, but much better for me.

 

[Old Tanker]

Hello, if anyone knows of a newer thread I can move my question.


New to the forum but have been on accurate shooter for years. I wanted to check for any shared experiences. I am running a 28" Criterion 1 in 8 twist and H4350 in my new 6.5CM. Brass is Lapua. My new Criterion barrel is very fast after 250 rounds and I can run H140 ELDMs at 2850 with zero pressure signs at 41 grains. Full length sizing with both Redding type S and Hornady full length.


Finding a repeatable sub 1/2 inch group has been a challenge. I expect more I have experimented with seating from lands to .020 jump. I'm running between .400 and .800 on group size with the avg being about .600 inches at 100yds.


Have several rifles that I have tuned to shoot 1/4 inch 5 shot groups. I use, OCW, Satterly..I've reloaded a fair amount which means I know enough to not blow myself up now


Is there some secret to finding optimal seating depth with high BC bullets? They seem really fussy...Berger 144, Sierra 142, Hornady 140. So far the H140 has been the best shooter but I'm still averaging about .6 inch 5 shot groups at 2850fps-ish. I can take the barrel off this rifle, slap on my 20 practical barrel and shoot in the .2s - .3s all day. Same everything except barrel, bolt head and caliber.


Again, I have worked up my H4350/H140ELDM loads from 40 grains through 41.7 grains with different seating depths. I am not finding the 5 shot groups I want. 3 shot groups are fine, but we all know the flyer or wacky shot happens on shot 4 or 5. Murphy's Law. And that is the strange thing. Even tried factory ammo in H140 and H147 and got similar results. One or two .5 - .6 inch groups and then the next will be 1.2 inches. I've had several ask if its my shooting. No. Too much bench time. I don't routinely pull shots over a 1/2 inch.


Maybe I should just step down into the 39 grain range with the H4350 and drop the velocity and see if I can find a node that is both wide and consistent in the 2700 fps range.


Criterion makes good stuff - I figured by now I would be shooting in the mid .3s for five shots groups.


Any opinions/thoughts out there? Seems hard to tune compared to other rifles. Geez, I have 4 ARs that shoot tighter groups than my 6.5CM.



Thank you

I’m shooting Sierra 140s w/41 grains of H4350 with good results @100. Bullet seated at .010 of the lands. I wasn’t satisfied at 300 and think 41 is a little slow for 300 - @2650. Until I polish my shooting skills, I won’t make drastic changes. Sierra says 2800 fps exceeds max for H4350 and since I consider myself an amateur, I don’t take chances.

 

[Rob01]

I’m shooting Sierra 140s w/41 grains of H4350 with good results @100. Bullet seated at .010 of the lands. I wasn’t satisfied at 300 and think 41 is a little slow for 300 - @2650. Until I polish my shooting skills, I won’t make drastic changes. Sierra says 2800 fps exceeds max for H4350 and since I consider myself an amateur, I don’t take chances.

And when you do polish those skills swap out for a better bullet for long range and you will be happier.

 

[Old Tanker]

And when you do polish those skills swap out for a better bullet for long range and you will be happier.

Any suggestions on bullet? It is a factory barreled, RPR and the throat is a little short, right on SAAMI minimum.

 

[Rob01]

Any suggestions on bullet? It is a factory barreled, RPR and the throat is a little short, right on SAAMI minimum.

If it’s saami then it’s a .199 freebore but it might be just short as sometimes they do that and also Savage does it too. If you can’t chamber factory oal ammo then you need to Contact Ruger.

As to bullets, if you wanted to stay Sierra then go to the 142 SMK. Or the 140 or 147 ELDs work great too. Then you can give Bergers a try if you wanted to spend some money. I have saami spec chambers and shoot the Factory 140 and 147 elds ammo and they are very accurate jumping .070 and .090” respectively. When I load them I load them at .020” off the lands.

 

[Old Tanker]

If it’s saami then it’s a .199 freebore but it might be just short as sometimes they do that and also Savage does it too. If you can’t chamber factory oal ammo then you need to Contact Ruger.

As to bullets, if you wanted to stay Sierra then go to the 142 SMK. Or the 140 or 147 ELDs work great too. Then you can give Bergers a try if you wanted to spend some money. I have saami spec chambers and shoot the Factory 140 and 147 elds ammo and they are very accurate jumping .070 and .090” respectively. When I load them I load them at .020” off the lands.

I’ve shot factory Hornady in 120 and 140 with no pressure signs on the primer. There was a lot of brass smear on the bolt face. Good advice, I’ll get some factory and double check whether or not they are in the lands.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Try the carolina load with different bullets and primers. You need large primer brass- thats your first step. If these changes dont work replace the barrel. You may have reached its pinnacle (i suspect you have)

 

[Joeten]

Hello, if anyone knows of a newer thread I can move my question.


New to the forum but have been on accurate shooter for years. I wanted to check for any shared experiences. I am running a 28" Criterion 1 in 8 twist and H4350 in my new 6.5CM. Brass is Lapua. My new Criterion barrel is very fast after 250 rounds and I can run H140 ELDMs at 2850 with zero pressure signs at 41 grains. Full length sizing with both Redding type S and Hornady full length.


Finding a repeatable sub 1/2 inch group has been a challenge. I expect more I have experimented with seating from lands to .020 jump. I'm running between .400 and .800 on group size with the avg being about .600 inches at 100yds.


Have several rifles that I have tuned to shoot 1/4 inch 5 shot groups. I use, OCW, Satterly..I've reloaded a fair amount which means I know enough to not blow myself up now


Is there some secret to finding optimal seating depth with high BC bullets? They seem really fussy...Berger 144, Sierra 142, Hornady 140. So far the H140 has been the best shooter but I'm still averaging about .6 inch 5 shot groups at 2850fps-ish. I can take the barrel off this rifle, slap on my 20 practical barrel and shoot in the .2s - .3s all day. Same everything except barrel, bolt head and caliber.


Again, I have worked up my H4350/H140ELDM loads from 40 grains through 41.7 grains with different seating depths. I am not finding the 5 shot groups I want. 3 shot groups are fine, but we all know the flyer or wacky shot happens on shot 4 or 5. Murphy's Law. And that is the strange thing. Even tried factory ammo in H140 and H147 and got similar results. One or two .5 - .6 inch groups and then the next will be 1.2 inches. I've had several ask if its my shooting. No. Too much bench time. I don't routinely pull shots over a 1/2 inch.


Maybe I should just step down into the 39 grain range with the H4350 and drop the velocity and see if I can find a node that is both wide and consistent in the 2700 fps range.


Criterion makes good stuff - I figured by now I would be shooting in the mid .3s for five shots groups.


Any opinions/thoughts out there? Seems hard to tune compared to other rifles. Geez, I have 4 ARs that shoot tighter groups than my 6.5CM.



Thank you

My creedmoor has a 26” Criterion barrel that likes RDF140s & ELD147s. Groups average in the .3s using 39 gr H4350.

 

[WEL]

You need to jump them more. I’m at about .060 off. Lately I’ve been finding a charge weight that gives good velocity and more importantly es. Es is the killer at long range. I dont care how good your groups are at 100 if your es is 20-30 it’s going to suck at long range. Find that good flat spot in velocity with the powder then work on seating depth for groups. Go from where you are now our now to .100 off in .010 increments then fine tune from there.

 

[ranger3]

I find my 6.5 CM stock Savage easy to tune. 42 gr. H4350 with 142 SMK, 140 ELDM, and it shoots in the .3's.

 

[DHuffman]

I have only used the CCi450s. Have had really good results for years with them. Do you think a primer would make the difference between a .6 and 1 or 1.2" group?

Absolutely, another thing many times there is a very good node just over 2800 fps