6.5-06 or 280 AI

[JarheadAZ]

I would suggest the .280 with a 1:9" (or even 1:8") twist. The 1:9" should handle up to 160-ish weight bullets, and the 1:8" should serve for heavier. But I seriously doubt anything more than a Nosler 7mm 150gr bullet would be needed for out to the 800yd of which you speak.

My own experiments with Nos 120, 140, and 150gr Ballistic tips strongly suggest that accuracy should be relatively easy to achieve with H-4831SC or H-4350 propellants. I got to around 55gr of H-4831SC with the 150BT's and found good accuracy, but had to desist further refined load development due to various health issues under my roof.

Nothing more sophisticated should be needed.

Greg

 

[prologr]

I would suggest the .280 with a 1:9" (or even 1:8") twist. The 1:9" should handle up to 160-ish weight bullets, and the 1:8" should serve for heavier. But I seriously doubt anything more than a Nosler 7mm 150gr bullet would be needed for out to the 800yd of which you speak.

My own experiments with Nos 120, 140, and 150gr Ballistic tips strongly suggest that accuracy should be relatively easy to achieve with H-4831SC or H-4350 propellants. I got to around 55gr of H-4831SC with the 150BT's and found good accuracy, but had to desist further refined load development due to various health issues under my roof.

Nothing more sophisticated should be needed.

Greg

I've shot a 280AI for years it is my go to round. I've. Found Winchester 270 brass the best way to go cheaper lasts forever. I know it can be hard to find Viht. N_560 is the powderto use yields 3000 fps. In my 25 inch hart 9 twist with 168 Berger's hunting vlds

 

[Cold Bore]

Unless you just have to have the 280-AI try the standard 280 Remington.

That was my first thought as well.

280 over 6.5-06, and skip the A.I. stuff.

 

[Patton243]

I ordered a 7mm barrel from Brux last week actually. I'm going 280 or 280 AI at this point. I'll narrow it down to one of them within a few months. No hurry at this point. Thanks for the responses feel free to chime in anyone else.

 

[Sheldon N]

280AI, of course. Free extra case capacity, little to no case trimming due to the 40 degree shoulder, and 100 extra fps if you want them.

Prefer to shoot regular 280? You still get to do that... the first time.

 

[Patton243]

The 280 has some advantages over the 280 AI as well after researching both extensively. First, it’s going to be cheaper to shoot. The 280 takes less powder, the dies are cheaper, and the brass is less than the Nosler 280 AI, or fire forming in general. Secondly, the gun is going to have less recoil than the 280 AI, marginally, and the barrel life will be better too. These are all important things to take into consideration as well for the 280.

With that said, I am still leaning towards the 280 AI due to the better shoulder/less trimming and the availability of Nosler 280 AI brass instead of fire forming. The real question is 100 FPS worth the additional cost from a 280 to 280 AI? I'm going with a 26' barrel for either one. As I stated above I have a few months to make a final decision because the barrel won’t be in til April. The 6.5-06 is out of question as of now. I did not care for the poor barrel life and how the OAL is so long compared to other cartridges.

Chris

 

[JabaliHunter]

I would re-barrel to 6.5-284 and use the Lapua brass;
or .284 with necked up Lapua brass.

 

[Cold Bore]

The real question is 100 FPS worth the additional cost from a 280 to 280 AI?

In my opinion, no.

 

[dkhunt14]

I would re-barrel to 6.5-284 and use the Lapua brass;
or .284 with necked up Lapua brass.

I would never build a 6.5-284. Bad barrel life. Less the a 1000 rounds. Hard to tune and keep tuned. Built 3 for 1000 yard BR and will never build another one. In fact everybody else quit using them in 1000 yard BR. I have seen barrels with no throat left in 500 rounds. Matt

 

[tclaunch]

I have had 2 Borden barreled 280 AI, a 6.5/06, and 6.5/06 AI, 264 WM. I would build another 280 AI. In fact I ordered a reamer based off the 30/06 case length so I can use Lapua brass, and have 280 AI capacity, only small neck length loss. 280 AI/06.

RL19, IMR4831, AA3100, N165 all shoot extremely well with 140 grain weights. I personally focused on N165. 3206 FPS and forever brass life.

 

[Sheldon N]

The 280 has some advantages over the 280 AI as well after researching both extensively. First, it’s going to be cheaper to shoot. The 280 takes less powder, the dies are cheaper, and the brass is less than the Nosler 280 AI, or fire forming in general. Secondly, the gun is going to have less recoil than the 280 AI, marginally, and the barrel life will be better too. These are all important things to take into consideration as well for the 280.

Redding Type S dies are the same price for either 280 Rem or 280AI.

Load the 280AI down to the same velocity as the standard 280 (ie down 100fps) and you'll be running a lower pressure cartridge. Powder usage will be roughly 3 grains more than the standard 280 (Just over $0.01 per round in powder cost) but the barrel life advantage of running a lower pressure cartridge would likely offset that.

Standard 280 Remington brass is easy to come by. Just search for "280 Brass" on armslist and you can find hundreds of cases for sale at any time, usually around $0.35 or $0.40 per case.

Fireforming isn't a bother. I shot 162 amax's as fireforming loads, cost of around $.50/rd in materials. They were accurate and it was a nice day at the range. I'm on the 8-9th firing of the same AI brass now. When this barrel's shot out, I'm on the fence about whether I'll do the "cream of wheat" fireforming for the next lot of brass on the old barrel, or if I'll use the first hundred fireforming rounds on the new barrel as break in before I start load development. I think either option would work fine.


Ultimately I think either cartridge is going to shoot well and you can't go wrong.

 

[JarheadAZ]

I have managed to live my life so far (70 in May) without sipping from the AI ladle.

I think that folks who do AI do it specifically for the purpose of filling it to the full capacity and gaining the additional velocity.

Speed costs, and max speed costs maximally. My reason for avoiding AI is based on bore life. Bore life equates to the number of pounds of powder a bore consumes. More powder equals less life. Period.

Sure, one can download an AI. The result is non-AI performance with a lower load density percentage. That can (often) equate to more dispersion.

Greg

 

[Patton243]

The only reason I'm considering the 280 AI, and I stated this in the beginning, is because Nosler has brass made for it already. No other AI cartridge has this benefit on the market. I would never fire form brass to make an AI cartridge and that's my opinion. I would pursue another commercialized cartridge instead. Furthermore, the AI sell back is going to be tough if you want to trade it in. At least the 280 AI has some market support through Nosler. And as the guy above stated you can always load the 280 AI at moderate levels so you don't burn out the barrel as fast. The 280 AI seems to have more options over the 280.

 

[P72]

The 6.5-06 is a wonderful cartridge capable of great things and is a terrific performer.

100 Amax, 107 Sierra MK- H4350
120-123 - H4831, Re 19, Re23, Re23, 4000Mr
140 H1000

shoots like a magnum, cheap easy brass (.270, .30-06), no high cost brass or fire-forming - 1 step neck down, trim, turn to .288-.289

be sure to get a 1-8, 24 inch is nice but 26 is nicer.

I have made .280 brass from .270 but that involves making a secondary shoulder and fire-forming then turning & trimming.

Both rounds in a good strong rifle can be charged up to drive caliber optimum bullets at velocities fast enough for quick certain kills at long ranges.

 

[kev77]

The only reason I'm considering the 280 AI, and I stated this in the beginning, is because Nosler has brass made for it already. No other AI cartridge has this benefit on the market. I would never fire form brass to make an AI cartridge and that's my opinion. I would pursue another commercialized cartridge instead. Furthermore, the AI sell back is going to be tough if you want to trade it in. At least the 280 AI has some market support through Nosler. And as the guy above stated you can always load the 280 AI at moderate levels so you don't burn out the barrel as fast. The 280 AI seems to have more options over the 280.

You will get 1800 rounds on a 280Ai barrel. Buy the 280ai nosler brass and don't look back. !!!! If you need load data just message me

 

[P72]

When I decided I needed something that hit harder and shot flatter using 160 grain bullets than my 6.5-06 with 140's I went with a 7mm Rem mag. That Nosler brass at $80 per 50 for their version of the .280 AI would restrict my shooting to like ceremonial events even with 5 or so loadings per piece. At 5 loadings per piece and a barrel life of 1800 rounds some 360 pieces would be required and the brass costs would be about $575.

I can buy 7mm RM once fired brass real cheap @ $48 per 100 including shipping. It would appear that Nosler has made their version of the .280 AI into some sort of a boutique round.

In a dire emergency AI brass can be fire formed using cream of wheat or grits, any kind of the right size primer, TP (toilet paper), and medium rate burning pistol powder. Common ordinary .270 brass can be used to make .280 Nosler version AI brass in the event Nosler has other priorities than the production of their .280 AI brass causing unfortunate and sad shortages.

 

[rudysts]

I shoot 180 Bergers out of my 280 AI with Nosler brass and I am currently on my 12th loading on this batch of brass I don't push it to hard 2830 - 2850 fps. with the 160s I can get it past 3000 fps but the 180s is what my barrel prefers.

 

[kev77]

When I decided I needed something that hit harder and shot flatter using 160 grain bullets than my 6.5-06 with 140's I went with a 7mm Rem mag. That Nosler brass at $80 per 50 for their version of the .280 AI would restrict my shooting to like ceremonial events even with 5 or so loadings per piece. At 5 loadings per piece and a barrel life of 1800 rounds some 360 pieces would be required and the brass costs would be about $575.

I can buy 7mm RM once fired brass real cheap @ $48 per 100 including shipping. It would appear that Nosler has made their version of the .280 AI into some sort of a boutique round.

In a dire emergency AI brass can be fire formed using cream of wheat or grits, any kind of the right size primer, TP (toilet paper), and medium rate burning pistol powder. Common ordinary .270 brass can be used to make .280 Nosler version AI brass in the event Nosler has other priorities than the production of their .280 AI brass causing unfortunate and sad shortages.

You will get more than 10 firings from Nosler brass

 

[Cold Bore]

That Nosler brass at $80 per 50 for their version of the .280 AI .....

I can buy 7mm RM once fired brass real cheap @ $48 per 100 including shipping.

While Nosler *is* proud of their brass, it's not really fair to compare new Nosler brass to anything once-fired.

 

[oldroper]

Thanks all for the information. I'm definitely leaning towards the 280/280AI now after reading some of the replies here. I also want a cartridge that I don't have to spend 200+ rounds trying to figure out load development which in essence happened with this 6.5-06. The cartridge shot good early on, but it has faded recently. I'll do a little research on the 280 as well as the guy mentioned above. The 280AI still looks more appealing because I wont have to trim cases as much.

Chris

I shoot 280AI and 284 on long action and both used for hunting here in Co. I use Nosler data for the 280AI and I have no problems mid 3000fps with 160gr AB and Nosler brass is pretty good. I shot 7mm Express few years and my 280AI was factory 280 and Nosler does have data for 26" barrel 280 about 100fps slower than what I'm getting.

I never did hunt with 280, had others I liked better but I did enjoy shooting it.

I had 284 in the works and was leaning towards 7Wby but with Nosler brass coming out I decided to go with 280AI.