I don't think 5G is the panacea for rural broadband. Smaller cell sizes is definitely a limiting factor.
5G INFO
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I don't think 5G is the panacea for rural broadband. Smaller cell sizes is definitely a limiting factor.
5G works in 3 different frequency bands.
High band, sub-millimeter has the potential to interfere with sub-millimeter radar altimeters when used in close proximity to glide paths near an airport. The ground return from an altimeter is weak and in-band interference can desensitize the receiver and block the ground signal.
Mid band, with frequencies of a few gigahertz, 2.5Ghz, up to 4.2Ghz has a little better range.
I have a midband 5G phone with a range of a few miles. Sometimes drops back to low band 5G when between small towns. I get a good 5GUC signal a little over a mile inside a frame house with a metal roof. Lowband is usually the first fall back band when out of range of a mid-band tower.
Low band, common name Band-71, using frequencies robbed from the UHF Television band (663-698 UL / 617-652 MHz DL) are the easiest (cheapest) to deploy. Still not quite the range of 4G but usually because of lower powered radios and smaller antennas. The potential here is to overload TV receivers close to the little cells scattered around homes that try and receive over-the-air TV several miles away by overloading the TV receiver input. Signal strength of a 5G lowband cell a mile away will be stronger than a TV signal 20 miles away. This could impact TV reception for UHF TV signals on channels 30 to 36. I have a Band -71 filter installed to block any potential UHF TV interference from the towers in town.
I installed an upgraded TV antenna with gain but a small beamwidth to improve O-T-A reception. I scanned the digital signals with both an analog Signal Meter and a digital one. Pointed toward stations about 34 miles away, the TV signals were stronger than 5G Band-71 towers in my small town.
Pointed toward the cell towards the signals were stronger than the TV signals. With the antenna pointed toward the distant TV towers the Cell signals were lower.
So, radiation from 5G towers probably isn't any concern unless one if deployed on a pole outside your window, or in a hallway in your office building.
High band millimeter wave cells usually will communicate with High Band Modems that then convert the signals to normal WiFi frequencies (more later
).
Midband cells usually communicate with compatible cell phones, that usually also have 5G Lowband and for now, 4G fall back.
Low band 5G presents about the same hazard as living close to a TV station.
Midband 5G presents about the same hazard as having Wifi in your house.
Regardless of how you get your internet, 56k modem, DSL, Fiber, 5G modem, if you use WiFi in your home or FREE WiFi at McDonalds, the frequency of your Wifi is likely about the same as the 5G Midband frequencies. 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz, with signal strengths inside your house from your wireless router or phone are likely stronger than 5G signals.
Signal strength test of midband 5G at my location.
High band, sub-millimeter has the potential to interfere with sub-millimeter radar altimeters when used in close proximity to glide paths near an airport. The ground return from an altimeter is weak and in-band interference can desensitize the receiver and block the ground signal.
Mid band, with frequencies of a few gigahertz, 2.5Ghz, up to 4.2Ghz has a little better range.
I have a midband 5G phone with a range of a few miles. Sometimes drops back to low band 5G when between small towns. I get a good 5GUC signal a little over a mile inside a frame house with a metal roof. Lowband is usually the first fall back band when out of range of a mid-band tower.
Low band, common name Band-71, using frequencies robbed from the UHF Television band (663-698 UL / 617-652 MHz DL) are the easiest (cheapest) to deploy. Still not quite the range of 4G but usually because of lower powered radios and smaller antennas. The potential here is to overload TV receivers close to the little cells scattered around homes that try and receive over-the-air TV several miles away by overloading the TV receiver input. Signal strength of a 5G lowband cell a mile away will be stronger than a TV signal 20 miles away. This could impact TV reception for UHF TV signals on channels 30 to 36. I have a Band -71 filter installed to block any potential UHF TV interference from the towers in town.
I installed an upgraded TV antenna with gain but a small beamwidth to improve O-T-A reception. I scanned the digital signals with both an analog Signal Meter and a digital one. Pointed toward stations about 34 miles away, the TV signals were stronger than 5G Band-71 towers in my small town.
Pointed toward the cell towards the signals were stronger than the TV signals. With the antenna pointed toward the distant TV towers the Cell signals were lower.
So, radiation from 5G towers probably isn't any concern unless one if deployed on a pole outside your window, or in a hallway in your office building.
High band millimeter wave cells usually will communicate with High Band Modems that then convert the signals to normal WiFi frequencies (more later
).Midband cells usually communicate with compatible cell phones, that usually also have 5G Lowband and for now, 4G fall back.
Low band 5G presents about the same hazard as living close to a TV station.
Midband 5G presents about the same hazard as having Wifi in your house.
Regardless of how you get your internet, 56k modem, DSL, Fiber, 5G modem, if you use WiFi in your home or FREE WiFi at McDonalds, the frequency of your Wifi is likely about the same as the 5G Midband frequencies. 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz, with signal strengths inside your house from your wireless router or phone are likely stronger than 5G signals.
Signal strength test of midband 5G at my location.
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Short Youtube video of an antenna test, 8 bay bowtie, before installing on mast.
UHF TV channels plus Midband Cell signals at my house.
UHF TV channels plus Midband Cell signals at my house.
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SteveOak
Gold $$ Contributor
Do you realize none of those apply to 5G?Happy Reading..... (Left out the CDC and WHO references as there is some resent disagreements on their credibility).
American National Standards Institute (ANSI)
American National Standards Institute (ANSI). Publishes consensus standards on radio frequency (RF) exposures and measurements. The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), Standards Coordinating Committee 28 is the secretariat for ANSI for developing radio frequency (RF) standards. It is also the parent organization for the IEEE Committee on Man and Radiation (COMAR) that publishes position papers on human exposure to electromagnetic fields.
American Conference of Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH)
- C95.6, Safety Levels with Respect to Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields, 0-3 kHz. Defines exposure levels to protect against adverse effects in humans from exposure to electric and magnetic fields at frequencies from 0 to 3 kHz.
- EPRI Comments on the IEEE Standard for Safety Levels with Respect to Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields, 0 to 3 kHz. Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), (January 2003). EPRI comments that the IEEE Standard represents a clear advancement in the development and documentation of exposure guidelines in the designated frequency range.
International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) Guidelines
- Documentation of the Threshold Limit Values for Physical Agents, 7th Ed. Provides consensus exposure limits from the Organization of Governmental Industrial Hygienists for Sub-Radio frequency (30kHz and below) and Static Electric and Magnetic Fields.
- Guidelines for Limiting Exposure to Electric Fields Induced by Movement of the Human Body in a Static Magnetic Field and by Time-Varying Magnetic Fields Below 1 Hz. (2014). Establishes guidelines for the protection of workers moving in static magnetic fields or being exposed to magnetic fields with frequencies below 1 Hz. The ICNIRP is an affiliate of the World Health Organization (WHO).
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If you are worried about the body absorbing cell phone RF energy, think about;
Drones that use your cell phone with power boosters for longer range,
Giving your kids remote controlled cars, with a transmitter/antenna in their young hands,
Using a tablet with WiFi instead of a cell phone,
Various 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz devices in your home,
Operating a cell phone with signals bouncing around in a metal automobile,
Or complaining about poor cell performance in an aircraft.
Look around, what is the frequency/radiation pattern/power level of the antennas you sit closest to?
Drones that use your cell phone with power boosters for longer range,
Giving your kids remote controlled cars, with a transmitter/antenna in their young hands,
Using a tablet with WiFi instead of a cell phone,
Various 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz devices in your home,
Operating a cell phone with signals bouncing around in a metal automobile,
Or complaining about poor cell performance in an aircraft.
Look around, what is the frequency/radiation pattern/power level of the antennas you sit closest to?
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To put it briefly, it's not that there MAY be health concerns, but that there ARE health concerns. 5G is tied in with the military and has potential dual use as a weapons systems, so that should tell you something, not to mention the harmful effects from the particular frequencies it is able to operate at, as well as the harmful electromagnetic aspects on the human brain and body along with 5G's ability to manipulate and affect cell/organ functions through those frequencies it operates at. Combine 5G with the SMART meters they intend to install on every home/business means we will be constantly surrounded by these more harmful frequencies. Many experts in these various fields of science have spoken out, provided test data, reports and interviews concerning the harm from 5G radiation and the frequencies utilized, only to be silenced, ignored and censored. Let them have an open debate if there's nothing to hide. The info is out there, it's just not easy to find unbiased mainstream sources. I would keep it away as much as you can.
Active (for harm) 5g type systems operating at up to 95Ghz transmit at power levels of 10 to 20 kilowatts of directed, narrow beam energy from directional antennas. Military comm signals used by the military use much less power.
Typical 5G cell transmitters operate at much lower power, like 10 to 20 watts of wide beam energy from sector type antennas (normally 30 degree beam width per element). When distance to the closest human is calculated to be below safe limits 5G power can be higher, up to a hundred watts or so.
"Typically two safety distances are calculated, softer limits for skilled workers, who know how to behave close to antennas, and harder limits for all other people, for “public access,” that may even not be aware of the antenna system presence".
If you have a 5G modem point it toward the nearest tower. Not toward your face
The frequency of SMART meters can be in the 900hz or 2.4ghz band for industrial telemetry at power levels about twice the normal cell phone, but at a distance fro the human many times the distance of the cell phone from the body when using Facetime (constant upload). I doubt we will be seeing Highband high power SMART meters capable of being used as a weapon any time soon.
Granted, we are being bombarded with RF radiation. Most of the damaging rays come from mainstream media.
You can read about 5G and get scared, or know how RF energy propagates.
A RF source that has been around for a while is recreational boating radar systems.
Don't climb up into the beam while transmitting. Or navigate your small craft into the beam of another radar unit.
"Outputs for traditional pulse style recreational boating radars range from 4kW to 25kW. Although you can still buy a 2kW or 2.2kW radar, you’ll probably regret choosing a radar with a 24 nautical mile range. The typical range for a 4kW radar is 48 nautical miles (nm), so you get what you pay for."
Note that a radar unit is transmitting a constantly rotating (in azimuth) pulse. The closer to the antena the more pulses you can absorb per second.
Typical 5G cell transmitters operate at much lower power, like 10 to 20 watts of wide beam energy from sector type antennas (normally 30 degree beam width per element). When distance to the closest human is calculated to be below safe limits 5G power can be higher, up to a hundred watts or so.
"Typically two safety distances are calculated, softer limits for skilled workers, who know how to behave close to antennas, and harder limits for all other people, for “public access,” that may even not be aware of the antenna system presence".
If you have a 5G modem point it toward the nearest tower. Not toward your face
The frequency of SMART meters can be in the 900hz or 2.4ghz band for industrial telemetry at power levels about twice the normal cell phone, but at a distance fro the human many times the distance of the cell phone from the body when using Facetime (constant upload). I doubt we will be seeing Highband high power SMART meters capable of being used as a weapon any time soon.
Granted, we are being bombarded with RF radiation. Most of the damaging rays come from mainstream media.
You can read about 5G and get scared, or know how RF energy propagates.
A RF source that has been around for a while is recreational boating radar systems.
Don't climb up into the beam while transmitting. Or navigate your small craft into the beam of another radar unit.
"Outputs for traditional pulse style recreational boating radars range from 4kW to 25kW. Although you can still buy a 2kW or 2.2kW radar, you’ll probably regret choosing a radar with a 24 nautical mile range. The typical range for a 4kW radar is 48 nautical miles (nm), so you get what you pay for."
Note that a radar unit is transmitting a constantly rotating (in azimuth) pulse. The closer to the antena the more pulses you can absorb per second.
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c3d4b2
Silver $$ Contributor
That is correct. They do point out the lack of consensus on the EMF issues.
Anyone worried about EMF radiation should have a means of measuring your exposure.
There are several meters available for the consumer.
techwellness.com
If you spent a lot of time in front of your 5G cell phone , maybe even consider this product,
combined with a Tin Foil Hat should protect you from 5G.
speroprotectionclothing.com
I use ARRL safety guidelines and a field strength meter for my Ham Radio Station.
There are several meters available for the consumer.
Is There A Safe Level Of Wireless EMF? Levels Chart Shows Expert Recommendations Based on Health Effects
Electromagnetic energy and how it affects our body's energy is a complicated subject. Some people are sensitive to the EMF radiation like me. I feel it. My body tells me when we've passed the tolerable level with ringing in my ears, tingling, and eventually a big headache. My kids and my husband...
techwellness.com
If you spent a lot of time in front of your 5G cell phone , maybe even consider this product,
combined with a Tin Foil Hat should protect you from 5G.
Spero Protection Clothing – Spero Protection Clothing
EMF protection clothing and accessories All products are lined with silver metal to provide shielding from EMF radiation.
speroprotectionclothing.com
I use ARRL safety guidelines and a field strength meter for my Ham Radio Station.
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I really appreciate all of your replies.
About tin foil hats, count me in. I was 15 when JFK got his "haircut". The term
"conspiracy theorist" was first coined, if my information is correct, by a guy named
Alan Dulles, who hated JFK for firing him from the CIA, and yet he ended up and
for all intents and purposes, leading the Warren Commission.
Mr. Dulles stated that the way to deal with any doubters that LH Oswald was the
lone assassin, was to call them a "conspiracy theorist".
To create a "label" like that is an old mind control trick that has worked for centuries.
I know that in my lifetime, when I look back, I can easily count up at least 50 times that
the media and the government have deceived the American people.
Am I skeptical about 5G and this whole technological revolution?? Yes indeed!!
About tin foil hats, count me in. I was 15 when JFK got his "haircut". The term
"conspiracy theorist" was first coined, if my information is correct, by a guy named
Alan Dulles, who hated JFK for firing him from the CIA, and yet he ended up and
for all intents and purposes, leading the Warren Commission.
Mr. Dulles stated that the way to deal with any doubters that LH Oswald was the
lone assassin, was to call them a "conspiracy theorist".
To create a "label" like that is an old mind control trick that has worked for centuries.
I know that in my lifetime, when I look back, I can easily count up at least 50 times that
the media and the government have deceived the American people.
Am I skeptical about 5G and this whole technological revolution?? Yes indeed!!
I enjoy talking about radio stuff almost as much as gun stuff
With my DSL connection which I use for about everrything I get about 5.5mb download and about 700k upload. I guess I could mirror my 5g phone to the TV and stream movies but my DSL does the job for now. ATT says I'm too far from the road for them to run fiber to the house but I suspect it would work at less than advertised speeds.
We each have a Samsung 22+ 5G capable phone. I don't think I am getting highband 5g in my home. The 5GUC icon when displayed can be midband or highband. The phone can and does at times drop back to lowband 5G and could drop back to 4G but haven't noticed that.
I was concerned about lowband because of the potential to interfere with my OTA TV antenna system.
5G is a type of modulation that can compress more data into higher RF frequencies.
I doubt that this 'Modulation' is of any health concerns as it actually has less power in each transmitted bit of info.
The frequencies used by low and mid band 5G have been used for years.
Old 2g and 3G used 800 and 900 analog signals. The kind you could monitor with a scanner and listen in. 4G uses very similar frequencies to 5G low and mid.
One problem is 5G is used as a generic 'death ray' term when it's the millimeter frequencies that are somewhat unknown as far as health risks. Being very close to a 5G upper band TRANSMITTER for long periods is likely not a good thing. Since it is limited in penetration power, line of sight, it seems best suited for inner city applications. Obviously a 5G millimeter cell is continuously transmitting signals to many many users at the same time. But a phone receives more than it transmits unless you are live feed uploading videos, or using Facetime like apps. The phone will transmit logistic signals to the tower to keep the connection alive but most of the time it is only receiving signals when you stay up all night watching Youtube videos.
What's good is not too many people hold their phones up to their ears for long conversations any more. Instead of the phone antenna being an inch from your brain, it's usually a foot or so.
Distance from a transmitting antenna is your friend. Don't sit next to your modem either.
So, in general, I think only 5G highband would be a concern, if the cell tower is close to you for long periods.
Obviously a third ear on a new born would be a concern. I do agree that 5G upper should not be allowed in aircraft glidepaths or helipads (500 ft altitude) as that is when the radar altimeter is necessary for safety.
As an Extra Class Amateur Operator I have some pretty high field strengths around.
Antennas are a distance from people, and I monitor nearby field strengths for equipment and cabling leakage.
A DIY 5g Death Ray does sound like a worthy project though
With my DSL connection which I use for about everrything I get about 5.5mb download and about 700k upload. I guess I could mirror my 5g phone to the TV and stream movies but my DSL does the job for now. ATT says I'm too far from the road for them to run fiber to the house but I suspect it would work at less than advertised speeds.
We each have a Samsung 22+ 5G capable phone. I don't think I am getting highband 5g in my home. The 5GUC icon when displayed can be midband or highband. The phone can and does at times drop back to lowband 5G and could drop back to 4G but haven't noticed that.
I was concerned about lowband because of the potential to interfere with my OTA TV antenna system.
5G is a type of modulation that can compress more data into higher RF frequencies.
I doubt that this 'Modulation' is of any health concerns as it actually has less power in each transmitted bit of info.
The frequencies used by low and mid band 5G have been used for years.
Old 2g and 3G used 800 and 900 analog signals. The kind you could monitor with a scanner and listen in. 4G uses very similar frequencies to 5G low and mid.
One problem is 5G is used as a generic 'death ray' term when it's the millimeter frequencies that are somewhat unknown as far as health risks. Being very close to a 5G upper band TRANSMITTER for long periods is likely not a good thing. Since it is limited in penetration power, line of sight, it seems best suited for inner city applications. Obviously a 5G millimeter cell is continuously transmitting signals to many many users at the same time. But a phone receives more than it transmits unless you are live feed uploading videos, or using Facetime like apps. The phone will transmit logistic signals to the tower to keep the connection alive but most of the time it is only receiving signals when you stay up all night watching Youtube videos.
What's good is not too many people hold their phones up to their ears for long conversations any more. Instead of the phone antenna being an inch from your brain, it's usually a foot or so.
Distance from a transmitting antenna is your friend. Don't sit next to your modem either.
So, in general, I think only 5G highband would be a concern, if the cell tower is close to you for long periods.
Obviously a third ear on a new born would be a concern. I do agree that 5G upper should not be allowed in aircraft glidepaths or helipads (500 ft altitude) as that is when the radar altimeter is necessary for safety.
As an Extra Class Amateur Operator I have some pretty high field strengths around.
Antennas are a distance from people, and I monitor nearby field strengths for equipment and cabling leakage.
A DIY 5g Death Ray does sound like a worthy project though
SteveOak
Gold $$ Contributor
At these frequencies of the studies cited the H (magnetic) field would be the consideration. At 5G frequencies the E (electric) field would be the consideration. Any attempt at extrapolation, even of lack of consensus, would be tenuious at best. The coupling mechanisms are different.
On the left is an E field antenna, Voltage. The one on the right is an H field antenna, current.
It would be like saying "We have studied blond women and found them confusing. Since blond women and brunette women are both women, brunette women must also be confusing."
Then again.... LOL
My directional 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz antennas for my little drone
Xerothermic
Silver $$ Contributor
I have T-Mobile for Internet, phone and watch at $25 ea. per month. So, for a grand total of $75 bucks I have eliminated Comcast at $120 per month and whatever Verizon was charging me for phone service and the watch. The tower is 1/4 mile from my house and service is mostly excellent. As said, it does slow down, sometimes, when all the unemployed and cheap (me) retired people wake up.
As an aside, I do think being bombarded with wireless signals has impacted the general population in an adverse way. How else can you explain the stupidity running rampant, in this country on a daily basis.
As an aside, I do think being bombarded with wireless signals has impacted the general population in an adverse way. How else can you explain the stupidity running rampant, in this country on a daily basis.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
What should it tell you?
The idea of a bullet that you send downrange to the target is also tied to the military, and is used in military weapons systems, but I doubt you'll get much traction here saying that's a hazard (despite all the research institutes saying it is.) GPS is used in smart bombs, yet you probably have one in your car (and your cell phone if you're walking.)
Bet you and most people would think that a bullet sent downrange is surely a hazard if you were in it's path within lethal range!
Point is that 5G has inherent dangers that aren't talked about in the public square; plus the capability is there within the (5G, GPS, etc) system to use in a hazardous way towards people, technology much like the Directed Energy Weapons at there disposal. This is all well documented in various scientific and military papers, projects and presentations, unless if they're making it up.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
And my point was that there's all kinds of crap that can be used maliciously, if the desire to do so is there. Cars and trucks, microwave ovens, lasers, propane bottles; all of it is potentially lethal.
To insist that 5G is inherently dangerous simply because it could be used that way is nothing more than fear-mongering.
I assume we are only concerned about the millimeter band of 5G transmitters (20 to 90 GHZ).
The lower 5G bands have comparable field strengths from TV stations or home modems, remote control cars, or even microwave oven leakage.
Beam width, power density at range is function of the antenna and beam divergence.
Initial aperture size, wavelength, and bandwidth determine how the beam spreads with distance.
This applies to microwave RF and optical LASERS.
Very directional microwave antennas are LARGE. Very large.
Your little LASER pointers employ weapons technology.
With power levels generally much less than a watt, beam diameter of a millimeter or 2, not much use except to cause a visual disturbance. Laser weapons use an expanded initial aperture to reduce divergence and increase power density at range. Power levels in the 1000's of watts,
Wide beam width (each degree is 60 MOA) from RF microwave sources would make it difficult to direct a small highly concentrated beam due to beam divergence. Energy density across the beam is going to low.
Even the millimeter antenna in your phone has a very wide beam width. You won't need a scope to point your phone to the transmitter.
If you notice Verizon putting up a 20 ft diameter antenna on a power pole pointed toward your window, then be concerned
The lower 5G bands have comparable field strengths from TV stations or home modems, remote control cars, or even microwave oven leakage.
Beam width, power density at range is function of the antenna and beam divergence.
Initial aperture size, wavelength, and bandwidth determine how the beam spreads with distance.
This applies to microwave RF and optical LASERS.
Very directional microwave antennas are LARGE. Very large.
Your little LASER pointers employ weapons technology.
With power levels generally much less than a watt, beam diameter of a millimeter or 2, not much use except to cause a visual disturbance. Laser weapons use an expanded initial aperture to reduce divergence and increase power density at range. Power levels in the 1000's of watts,
Wide beam width (each degree is 60 MOA) from RF microwave sources would make it difficult to direct a small highly concentrated beam due to beam divergence. Energy density across the beam is going to low.
Even the millimeter antenna in your phone has a very wide beam width. You won't need a scope to point your phone to the transmitter.
If you notice Verizon putting up a 20 ft diameter antenna on a power pole pointed toward your window, then be concerned
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