.338 Lapua not accurate enough?
- Thread starter Sling
- Start date
I agree with Hoier on the sub moa. I have shot three different 338's ,norma, lapua, and I have my own cartridge they will shoot for five but 20 for score plus spotters in 20 minutes f classing is a tough game.
We shoot big 338's with brakes all the time, never had an issue with muzzle blast from another shooter, maybe we'll get a light puff of air but never a concussion blast but we all shoot baffled side discharge brakes and it makes for easy shooting, heck my 8 year old daughter shoots her little 6Br next to me shooting my 338 RUM and she does't have an issues. The big 338's excel for cold bore ELR shooting, rarely would I put more than a couple down the pipe back to back. Cutting through mountain wind currents on it's way to an elk out past 1200 yards it's very, very hard to beat a big 338!!!
I have a 338 lapua and my 6.5x284 will do just as well to 1000 yards but beyond that it’s the 338 all the way
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
At the E2K match at Broadwater (Townsend, MT) the 338 Lapua Improved definitely shined. - Tom Mosel Won Unlimited Group Aggregate for 3 targets shooting a 338 Lapua Imp. 40 degree & 300 gr. Berger Bullets. And the Highest score was also shot with a .338 Lapua Improved. - There was a 28 Nosler and a 300 WSM on the line and they didn't hold up to the 338's, plain & simple. - I'm not saying the 338 Lapua Mag (standard or improved) are the 1000 yard Benchrest "solution" at all. - Fact of the matter is they've been tried years ago and I've conversed extensively with a long time 1000 yard shooter and a present 10 shot world record holder for heavy gun and he told me "they are just not normally accurate enough" along with the other less than desirable traits exhibited that prevent a "high speed run" to get all the rounds down-range quickly in a given condition.
- At this E2K match, I asked some of the long time 1000 yard shooters who were competing how 2000 yard BR (shooting paper targets for group & score) compared with 1000 yard competition. - "4 to 5 times more difficult" was the reply I received more than once.
- Until you have shot at a paper target at 2000 yards, I do not believe most shooters can begin to comprehend the difference & level of difficulty involved. - For starters, bullet time of flight is 3 times as long as what it is for 1000 yard Benchrest, and a miss-read of wind by 1.5 mph is going to cause a 300 gr. 338 caliber bullet moving at +2900 fps to be 33.5" OFF the mark where the shooter had anticipated it going.
- I personally don't think Any 6.5 caliber or hardly any 30 calibers are suitable for E2K type competition, the bullets are just not heavy enough in anything except "perfect" conditions to be competitive and the completion proved that in several cases. - E2K is not shooting steel plates or "objects" on the "berm" - It takes shooting to a different level that only the real live experience of doing so will show to the shooter(s). - The shooters who attended had all shot at the IBS 1000 yard Nationals at Deep Creek, MT the previous weekend so there was not a lack of talented shooters who were in attendance.
- Ron -
- At this E2K match, I asked some of the long time 1000 yard shooters who were competing how 2000 yard BR (shooting paper targets for group & score) compared with 1000 yard competition. - "4 to 5 times more difficult" was the reply I received more than once.
- Until you have shot at a paper target at 2000 yards, I do not believe most shooters can begin to comprehend the difference & level of difficulty involved. - For starters, bullet time of flight is 3 times as long as what it is for 1000 yard Benchrest, and a miss-read of wind by 1.5 mph is going to cause a 300 gr. 338 caliber bullet moving at +2900 fps to be 33.5" OFF the mark where the shooter had anticipated it going.
- I personally don't think Any 6.5 caliber or hardly any 30 calibers are suitable for E2K type competition, the bullets are just not heavy enough in anything except "perfect" conditions to be competitive and the completion proved that in several cases. - E2K is not shooting steel plates or "objects" on the "berm" - It takes shooting to a different level that only the real live experience of doing so will show to the shooter(s). - The shooters who attended had all shot at the IBS 1000 yard Nationals at Deep Creek, MT the previous weekend so there was not a lack of talented shooters who were in attendance.
- Ron -
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I've always based accuracy on distance between the bullet holes. Since my eyes can't behold what they used too, I think I'll stick to the tape measure for accuracy. I think you may be on to something with that 338 Norma thing. I'm building a 338 lapua imp right now and kinda wish I'd have looked at that Norma earlier. Pretty impressive being a shorter version of the 338 lapua.
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
I don't really believe that the Norma 338 will have ANY advantage what-so-ever, even with good brass. There will be less than 10% case capacity difference between either with the Lapua Version having more capacity. (standard versions versus each other & improved versions verses each other). The 338 Lapua will be able to push the 300 gr. bullets a little faster & when the new 330+ grain bullets come to market the Improved Lapua will be better positioned to push these heavier bullets. - There are a lot of folks making "keyboard prognosis'" without actual real world experience on here. - Accuracy is a direct result of a good cartridge design with proper case capacity for given bore ratio and then elimination of variables through meticulous reloading practices. - Also a very well designed & built rifle along with the best in marksmanship. - I personally do Not believe that the 338 Norma Mag. or an Improved design is going to "Trump" the Lapua Version - I'm already in the process of working with the Improved 300 Norma Mag for the 230 gr. Berger Hybrids. - Those of us who shot E2K want to explore other caliber options and see what kind of accuracy can be derived and the only way to tell will be to shoot the targets under real-world conditions. - There are a couple lines of thinking that need / we want to explore, One being a big 30 cal. with heavy high BC bullets and another is calibers larger than .338 & if they are capable of maintaining the desired level of accuracy under E2K shooting conditions. - One regret that I have is that I didn't test or shoot the 416 Barrett that I had with me at the time to see how it would fare from an accuracy stand-point at 2K yards shooting 5 shots on paper. - I had a decision to make & I went with the 338 Lapua Improved which also had not been tested at 2000 yds in the E2K environment. - The story is told down at the targets where the 5 shots were directed and there's still much to be learned at least from my personal prospective.
- Ron -
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
A couple of us discussed using a "big 30 cal." as well as other cartridges. - This is something that I believe needs to be "Tested" to get a concrete answer of how well a heavy 30 cal. will hold up. And if it has better accuracy and can withstand the "conditions" during the 3 seconds of bullet time of flight. - Possible upside to a big 30 cal. could be greater accuracy IF the shooter was able to make a fast run IF in fact a 30 cal. is more accurate at a shorter distance (in comparison to a 338 caliber or other) and all 5 shots could be "ran" quickly under the same conditions. - And with the larger calibers there's the dilemma of shooting monolithic solid bullets and IF they are able to group well enough at 2K. - I personally would like to test the 300 Norma Mag. Improved, 30-378 Weatherby for 30 caliber, and in larger calibers, 375 CheyTac Improved, 416 Barrett, and the 50 BMG & Improved with what bullets that are available. - Right now, it's not clear where the advantage sits in the E2K environment, that's why more testing is surely needed and by several different shooters. - I personally look forward to the future opportunities and challenges that E2K style shooting presents.
- Ron -
How did you do out there ? I looked a little at the results and looked like everyone had a ball. Look forward to getting out to shoot at one. Tough to beat that comradery with shooters.
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
I was second in Unlimited Group and I have the highest score aggregate (a 96) so far for 3 targets shot in E2k competition. - In ELR & Hunter I finished up right in the middle in both of those classes.
On Friday (practice day) I'd shot 3 groups off the bench (for Unlimited) all 5 shots on paper for all 3 targets, 2 of the 3 targets had approx. 8" 4 shot groups with one flyer down about 10-14 inches on both. Things looked pretty promising right then on Friday afternoon. - Hind-Sight being 20/20 I should have not cleaned on Friday after the practice, and also I believe the conditions on Saturday & Sunday when we shot were tougher to deal with. (More wind & greater mirage) - Also, I pre-loaded all my ammo prior to coming to the match which is another "lesson-learned" - I believe that tuning things a bit could have helped (Both seating depth and powder charge) which I didn't try. - Everyone pretty much shot what they brought, and I feel that there are some opportunities for all of us to improve if we can take the opportunity to do this as well.
They've already announced that for 2019 there's good chance we'll have 2 matches to shoot for E2K, so that will be another opportunity for new & past shooters to gain additional experience & participate. - Details are still under development at this time, my hopes are that my work schedule can allow me to attend as I'm willing to travel pretty much however far that is necessary to partake in the events.
And Yes, an Outstanding group of folks were in attendance.
On Friday (practice day) I'd shot 3 groups off the bench (for Unlimited) all 5 shots on paper for all 3 targets, 2 of the 3 targets had approx. 8" 4 shot groups with one flyer down about 10-14 inches on both. Things looked pretty promising right then on Friday afternoon. - Hind-Sight being 20/20 I should have not cleaned on Friday after the practice, and also I believe the conditions on Saturday & Sunday when we shot were tougher to deal with. (More wind & greater mirage) - Also, I pre-loaded all my ammo prior to coming to the match which is another "lesson-learned" - I believe that tuning things a bit could have helped (Both seating depth and powder charge) which I didn't try. - Everyone pretty much shot what they brought, and I feel that there are some opportunities for all of us to improve if we can take the opportunity to do this as well.
They've already announced that for 2019 there's good chance we'll have 2 matches to shoot for E2K, so that will be another opportunity for new & past shooters to gain additional experience & participate. - Details are still under development at this time, my hopes are that my work schedule can allow me to attend as I'm willing to travel pretty much however far that is necessary to partake in the events.
And Yes, an Outstanding group of folks were in attendance.
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Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Two of us will be trying 300 Norma improvs soon. I personally dont think they will beat the 338 imp until we get the new 245 berger
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
I can attest that some A500 plates don't appreciate getting hit by the Lapua. Took an ear right off 1 and broke the 2 straps holding it up.
I also shoot a 50 BMG regularly, as well as a 338 LM. You might not want to believe this but the actual recoil of the Lapua feels harder.
WOW. I never considered ground hogs so important that I would waste that kind of money on them
It’s not about money. I shoot rabbits with my 458 win mag bc I can and I own Saiga 12 shotguns bc no one has the right to tell me I can’t
To a hunter or long range shooter, it's no different than punching paper or steel with a 338. Same waste of money. IMO... Alot more fun.WOW. I never considered ground hogs so important that I would waste that kind of money on them
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