308 Winchester help

[DennisH]

I have several 308's. All of mine love 168's, 175's, 185's, and 190's,

My go to hunting bullet is Nosler Ballistic Tips! Any grain above.

I ended up posting several targets. I have 308's, most with 10 twist, 2 with 12 twist. it doesn't matter, these loads work in "ALL" of them. The 190's out of a 10 twist is unbelievable accurate, and "damaging". I have a hotter load I am not going to publish for the 190 that will print the same target as below. Between 42.0 and 43.5 grains of Varget seems to be very common.

Competition, I usually go for the 168's, sometimes the 175, mostly the 185's on windy days which is most of the time, 600 yards.

I have shot Federal Factory Ammo, FGMM NBT's with ease! Great ammo. One of my highest 600 F/TR scores ever was shooting this ammo, straight out of the box!

I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THESE LOADS TO "ANYONE", JUST SHOWING WHAT MY RIFLEs LIKE. I have Savage factory sporter rifles, Savage FCP Heavy rifles, and several custom built 308's. Bottom Line, they "ALL" shoot. And they are not picky at all, their very easy to dial in. I could post more pictures, just picked the ones I thought were relevant. All targets were shot @ 100 yards, these rifles are also "sub MOA" @ 600 with no problem.

My rifles will print the same target with NBT's.

NOTE: For some reason, I did try RL15 with all bullets. My 308's just didn't like the RL15. They love Varget and several more that are mentioned above.



Just for reference, target shooting 190's. I have had "NO" trouble finding a load using Varget.


5 shots using 4064 powder, 175 grain bullets




8 shots shooting Nosler Ballistic Tip 180 grain bullets, Varget Powder, I could have fine tuned it a little better, but this was great from my hunting area.
I can't describe the damage these NBT's cause, I use them in all calibers, my 243 absolutely loves them, 55, 70 & 90 grain! I could have shot a tighter group, but was in a hurry and as always, waited to the last minute to zero my rifle in before the hunt. After this group, I clicked up 1 1/4 MOA which is great for any 300 yard shot, which is all we have in my area. NOTE: Every shot with this load and bullet resulted in a "kill", and the most any of them ran was 20 yards after getting hit with this NBT. Most dropped in their tracks.

 

[DennisH]

I definetly support "Uncle Ed's" comments above concerning mounting bolt torque specs, and check the torques with every use. Especially my 3 screw Target Actions!

I also support SPJ recommendations.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I think he fell into that classic trap,... 3 different books, 3 different load values. Hogdon list a max a 47.5gr compressed with IMR4895. I was playing with IMR4895 but switched over to H4895 to get the "extreme" temp stability and I'm shooting heavier bullets at 175gr but found my gun really likes to be in the "middle of the pack" as far as velocity goes. I think the ladder test will indeed get him there quick but he needs to start lower and work up.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Back in the Service Rifle Days ? When we switched to Bolt Guns ( Devil made us to it).

4895 was Gas Gun Powder ….
Many tried it in Bolt Guns The old story was "Every Bolt Gun will shoot 4064 some will shoot 4895 ….

Today I still shoot a .308 Bolt Gun with 155gr and 185 gr. Bullets Varget is the Powder of Work a billety ...
In our case 4895 is over the Pressure Rating for .308 Gun pushes or Barks .

Old 4320 is good old stable Horse

 

[bigart4280]

Back in the Service Rifle Days ? When we switched to Bolt Guns ( Devil made us to it).

4895 was Gar Gun Powder ….
Many tried it in Bolt Guns The old story was "Every Bolt Gun will shoot 4064 some will shoot 4895 ….

Today I still shoot a .308 Bolt Gun with 155gr and 185 gr. Bullets Varget is the Powder of Work a billety ...
In our case 4895 is over the Pressure Rating for .308 Gun pushes or Barks .

Old 4320 is good old stable Horse

Thanks guys for all the information! I believe I’m loading to hot. I’m gonna try backing it way down and seeing what happens. I’ll shoot again tomorrow and keep you all posted. I really appreciate it.

 

[2506]

Like I said 43 grs IMR 4895 with 150s, I like Sierra Pro Hunter or Game King or Nos. BT, has been the ticket for a number of 308 Wins for me. Also 46 grs IMR 4895 with 125 Nosler BT is also awesomely accurate and is a really good deer drop them in their tracks load that has worked in a number of different 308 Rifles. With that thin barrel give it plenty of time between shots. In my experience they will heat up and start walking shots after the first two if you shoot quickly. Model 7 is a hunting rifle not a target rifle.

 

[Rsadams]

A screaming fast bullet is almost always not a super accurate bullet.... When I posted 42gr of IMR-4064 behind a 168gr Sierra matchking , that's out of my 24 inch barrel bolt gun is on par with a factory federal gold medal match round according to my crono and what the paper looks like... It's right at or just below 2700fps and definitely is not hot depending on what brass it's in... Before I went to the Matchking bullets I tryed some cheap match bullets in 150gr , they sucked , would barely shoot MOA... Most factory .308 seem to love the 168gr bullets , bullet selection makes a world of difference... If you don't have one pick up a Sierra manual but be warned their manual trends on the hotter side of reloading manuals but is worth it... Start low and work up... All loading manuals are not created equal....

As others have told you a lightweight barrel gets hot fast , I would only shoot three shot groups very slowly instead of five.... Watching for pulls or mistakes you make...Like alot of things , what works good for one doesn't work good for all... The good thing about the Matchking bullets is it doesn't mind a jump so you don't have to worry alot about seating depth being close to the lands etc... But they are not hunting rounds....

 

[BW64]

168 Berger hunter with 44.8 Varget gets me 2850 & 1/2 moa at 100

BW

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Thanks guys for all the information! I believe I’m loading to hot. I’m gonna try backing it way down and seeing what happens. I’ll shoot again tomorrow and keep you all posted. I really appreciate it.

Do you have a way or a friend with a good chronograph? That would help you a lot in getting the needed data. Chances are if your hunting your probably not going to be shooting 1000yds so backing down to a lower speed will still get the job done and save your shoulder and the rifle a lot of pounding. Sierras data for most of their loads has the accuracy around 2400-2600fps no need to hammer them if you don't have to.
I stumbled across a super accurate load in my 308 shooting IMR8208XBR and it was way low, like 2360fps.

 

[Richard Coody]

168 gr berger hybrid hunting 44 gr. varget cci br2's start seating depth testing about .010 off.

 

[Bart B.]

The pencil thin barrel will heat quickly opening up groups significantly.

If any barrel opens up groups as it warms up, these are reasons why:

* it is not stress relieved properly.

* it is fit to a receiver with its face not square to its tenon thread axis. It bears hardest at one place around the receiver face and usually vibrates moreso in that axis.

All such barrels in shot that did that always string shots the same each time. Some more horizontal and others more vertical.

Squaring up the receiver face then shimming the barrel to maintain headspace usually fixed things.

This is why factory rifle accuracy claims are normally limited to a few shots. Could be fixed for a few bucks per rifle.

 

[p-man]

My best loadings in my 10_twist, 3-groove Lilja are with Nosler 150 Accubonds off 15 thousandths with RL15 from 45.0 to 46.5 charges; HOWEVER my chamber is deeper than factory and my bullets are seated further out as my OAL of around 3", so start well south of these loads initially.

 

[DennisH]

168 gr berger hybrid hunting 44 gr. varget cci br2's start seating depth testing about .010 off.

I am not disagreeing, in my rifles this is a pretty "hot" load. I wasn't going to publish anything concerning my hot loads.

Do I have a few that loves this load? YES

I have shot these bullets, same powder, same load, just a little closer to the lands.

I would recommend everyone to start around 42.5 and work up to this load.

Personally, on a few of my 308's, I experienced a sticky bolt on a couple of them, and 2 others loved this load.

I even have a similiar load for Berger 190's! With 40 grains of Varget, I was printing sub MOA groups @ 100, I kept going as I was not experiencing any issues. The groups opened up, then they starting tightening up, and most wouldn't believe what charge printed the same sub MOA group with the 190's! It's "very" HOT! NO sticky bolt or other HOT signs. FWIW, the 175's and 185's produced a sticky bolt with the same charge! I don't understand why the 190's are fine with the HOT load! But it shoot them!

All barrels are different.

JMO

 

[msinc]

The last 4 brand new Remington's {3 700's and a Model 7} all puked the bore up with copper so bad during initial sight in that none of them would group until they were scrubbed clean. Even clean they were nothing to write home about, I am sorry, but 2" groups aint gonna get it with me. 2 of these rifles coppered up in less that 20 rounds and I was not able to get either of them to stop.
It is sad to say, but pretty much these days, if you want a nice rifle that will shoot you gotta either buy a Tikka or put a custom barrel on everything else...and even that don't necessarily guarantee anything!!!

Edit: you know I just realized...I don't own a rifle with a factory barrel...they have all been replaced. All they make is junk!!! Not to mention, none of them have a factory trigger either!! It's ridiculous...have democrats taken over the gun industry???? I am going to go get drunk now...I am upset!!!

 

[DennisH]

The last 4 brand new Remington's {3 700's and a Model 7} all puked the bore up with copper so bad during initial sight in that none of them would group until they were scrubbed clean. Even clean they were nothing to write home about, I am sorry, but 2" groups aint gonna get it with me. 2 of these rifles coppered up in less that 20 rounds and I was not able to get either of them to stop.
It is sad to say, but pretty much these days, if you want a nice rifle that will shoot you gotta either buy a Tikka or put a custom barrel on everything else...and even that don't necessarily guarantee anything!!!

Edit: you know I just realized...I don't own a rifle with a factory barrel...they have all been replaced. All they make is junk!!! Not to mention, none of them have a factory trigger either!! I am going to go get drunk now...I am upset!!!

msinc, have you rebarreled a/your TIKKA?

 

[msinc]

msinc, have you rebarreled a/your TIKKA?

No sir, I actually don't own a Tikka, but I seriously have yet to see one that needed it. They seem to be the only factory rifles that you got a good chance of getting one that will shoot.
All I can say is, if you do luck out and get anything today that will shoot DO NOT SELL IT!!!!!!!

 

[DennisH]

No sir, I actually don't own a Tikka, but I seriously have yet to see one that needed it. They seem to be the only factory rifles that you got a good chance of getting one that will shoot.

Some claim 5,000 rounds plus with their T3. Just a few years ago, it was almost impossible to find a replacement barrel. Now they are available through aftermarket suppliers in the US.

I believe this is still the case, the Tikka is made in Finland. Tikka will not sell a replacement barrel. I don't know if sending the rifle to Finland is an option for a factory replacement barrel.

I don't think the aftermarket barrels will compare to the original Tikka Rifle Barrel.

I personally have great success with "Savage" rifles out of the box that will print a sub MOA group easily in the right hands.

Good Point, Tikka's are very affordable brand new!

 

[msinc]

Some claim 5,000 rounds plus with their T3. Just a few years ago, it was almost impossible to find a replacement barrel. Now they are available through aftermarket suppliers in the US.

I believe this is still the case, the Tikka is made in Finland. Tikka will not sell a replacement barrel. I don't know if sending the rifle to Finland is an option for a factory replacement barrel.

I don't think the aftermarket barrels will compare to the original Tikka Rifle Barrel.

I personally have great success with "Savage" rifles out of the box that will print a sub MOA group easily in the right hands.

Good Point, Tikka's are very affordable brand new!

Several local guys first went with the Sako. It is definitely not what you could call "cost effective"...none of them performed very well. In fact, I have one of them in the shop for a barrel now. This is strange because aren't they both made in the same place??? I have seen it several times though, the guy gets mad and buys a Tikka and it works fine. I don't know about Tikka's, but I will say that the later model Sako's have the barrel so tight on the receiver it is ridiculous!! It's better/safer to undercut the barrel to remove it than horse it off with a big pipe.
I agree on the Savage, but not so much with the current ones. There was a time when every Savage I saw had what looked and shot like the best factory barrel there was. A borescope in the pipe and you thought you were looking at a custom. No tool marks and what appeared to be hand lapped. I mean, they couldn't have lapped all those barrels, but they sure looked that way.

 

[Homerange]

Several local guys first went with the Sako. It is definitely not what you could call "cost effective"...none of them performed very well. In fact, I have one of them in the shop for a barrel now. This is strange because aren't they both made in the same place??? I have seen it several times though, the guy gets mad and buys a Tikka and it works fine. I don't know about Tikka's, but I will say that the later model Sako's have the barrel so tight on the receiver it is ridiculous!! It's better/safer to undercut the barrel to remove it than horse it off with a big pipe.

Tikka and Sako are now both owned by Beretta and their tubes come from the same factory.
Yes they're excellent tubes and of all the new rifles I see get shot in here they both have the best finished factory tubes with the least copper fouling.
My sons T3 Stainless fluted Hunter in 243 showed a whisp of copper after its first 2 shots and we got straight onto it with KG12 before finishing its sight in. It then shot another 30 before we had to look at it again.
Never seen such a good tube !
Don't see anybody replacing Tikka triggers, they just adjust them up to suit themselves and shoot bloody well with them.....well those that can shoot, many can't shoot to save themselves.

 

[DennisH]

Tikka and Sako are now both owned by Beretta and their tubes come from the same factory.
Yes they're excellent tubes and of all the new rifles I see get shot in here they both have the best finished factory tubes with the least copper fouling.
My sons T3 Stainless fluted Hunter in 243 showed a whisp of copper after its first 2 shots and we got straight onto it with KG12 before finishing its sight in. It then shot another 30 before we had to look at it again.
Never seen such a good tube !
Don't see anybody replacing Tikka triggers, they just adjust them up to suit themselves and shoot bloody well with them.....well those that can shoot, many can't shoot to save themselves.

The few I have seen on the F/Class line, the owners changed the stock to a F/Class or Benchrest stock, that's it.