308 WIN F class FTR build information

[Bentnail]

Ok so I shot Fclass FTR this past summer and enjoyed finding out and learning in 223 REM. But wind at the distance part of some is my issue shooting 223 REM and noticing that most who shot around me would switch into 308 WIN in heavy wind. So here I am wanting to build a 308 WIN rifle for such shooting.

I am currently on budget (yeah my 223 REM is not top of the line but shoots well for me) So I have Savage action 110 bolt in 308 WIN. I have been eyeing the barrel and tallking to James at Northland Shooting Supply concerning the prefit savage barrels. I was looking at going with a 30 inch, SS match grade hand lapped, in a 1:10 twist to allow me up into the 200's if needed, in a Bull Barrel Contour per his suggestion, threaded for later use. I know that i need to be in under 18.0 lbs total with bipod and scope. So i was going to bed it into a Richards Microfit either the Benchrest Style stock or the Benchrest Sharpshooter Style stock. I am curious on what weight those stocks are in laminated. Originally I looked at Boyds laminated Pro Varmint stock but they will not make the stock in blind since I am shooting FTR. So up front I want to up and shooting here come March as in my area 1st comps will start in April like last year. I still need to develope loads for said setup but till i have a barrel that I can put on the action and stock I am not there yet.

Suggestions and reading also? On another forum i was directed to a site to read about lengths for 308 but in someways I think that site I went to was based on a Semi Auto setup such as LR308. I have one and no big thrill, I really enjoy the bolt action rifles. So ideas or information concerning length? That is my concern on this build, i have read previous threads saying 30 inch is a good length and that going to the 1:10 twist is good to allow for heavy bullets. As for distance most of my comps are 200, 400, 600 yards and few will include 800 yards as well.

Thank you for input....

 

[Fast14riot]

Can you pick up a factory Savage competition stock? If you've never had a Richard's not-so-microfit stock, just know that it's going to take a lot of finish work if you're not familiar with stock work. I've done a lot of stock and everything I do is by hand and its typically 20ish hours work for a Richards.

 

[Bentnail]

Can you pick up a factory Savage competition stock? If you've never had a Richard's not-so-microfit stock, just know that it's going to take a lot of finish work if you're not familiar with stock work. I've done a lot of stock and everything I do is by hand and its typically 20ish hours work for a Richards.

I am different sort of guy kinda of....I am a system engineer for work but also a master carpenter and master cabinetmaker on the side, so figuring that it is wood or laminated wood, i look forward to that aspect of the stock. I keep thinking bout finishing the stock in a HIGH Gloss Spar finish and I have read and talked to Helen with Richards that I will have to some wood working to fit the action and barrel to the stock and I am ok with that part too.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I think that you are going in the right direction for a first 308. The Model 10 is not a bad action Iseally make a sled to fit the magazine cut out. Hardwood or plastic works fine.

Trigger - as you don't have the "red" trigger, perhaps the Timney insert is worth a go. It will be an improvement, with some careful adjustment.

Barrel - pre fits are just that. You may be lucky...but there's no reason not to get a barrel proerly fitted - and shouldered on the action. The smith will face the action too. Criterion make a good barrel at a good price.

Chamber - decide what projectiles that you will use. There's little point in having the 2013 FTR team reamer chamber to shoot 155g bullets. If you are shooting heavies - then that is the reamer to use.

Stock - the Savage Benchrest stock is nice if you can find one - and is the kind of shape -a flat bag riding rear that is common these days. The sloped rear is Ok for elevation adjustment, but most shooters use a flatter rear. I don't know much about microfit - other than I bought one of their thumbhole varminter stocks a long time ago and still have it with a 243 BSA in it. My FTR stock is a Joe West from the UK. You really need a longish forend to get the bipod away - it seems to work better for me anyway.

Remember that your max. weight includes the scope and bipod - Good shooting

 

[Fast14riot]

I am different sort of guy kinda of....I am a system engineer for work but also a master carpenter and master cabinetmaker on the side, so figuring that it is wood or laminated wood, i look forward to that aspect of the stock. I keep thinking bout finishing the stock in a HIGH Gloss Spar finish and I have read and talked to Helen with Richards that I will have to some wood working to fit the action and barrel to the stock and I am ok with that part too.

Part of my point, do you want to put a ton of time and money into a Savage F/TR gun that you will never get back? Nothing wrong with that as long as you recognize up front that it will never fetch what was put into it. At every car show, there is no shortage of 20 year old Honda civics all tricked out. Don't get me wrong, I have a $3000 Rem 700 F/open gun because that's the route I took with incremental upgrades over time when I finally took a step back and decided instead of money spent on my 700, I bought a custom action. My bonus got me a trigger and scope. I was fortunate to be sponsored for a stock, had a barrel blank on the shelf. Lots of great support from my gunsmith and stock maker as well as high level competitors.

Basically, how much do you think it will cost to get your 110 competitive before deciding you want to build a proper gun.

 

[Bentnail]

Part of my point, do you want to put a ton of time and money into a Savage F/TR gun that you will never get back? Nothing wrong with that as long as you recognize up front that it will never fetch what was put into it. At every car show, there is no shortage of 20 year old Honda civics all tricked out. Don't get me wrong, I have a $3000 Rem 700 F/open gun because that's the route I took with incremental upgrades over time when I finally took a step back and decided instead of money spent on my 700, I bought a custom action. My bonus got me a trigger and scope. I was fortunate to be sponsored for a stock, had a barrel blank on the shelf. Lots of great support from my gunsmith and stock maker as well as high level competitors.

Basically, how much do you think it will cost to get your 110 competitive before deciding you want to build a proper gun.

I am currently looking at since on budget less than buying a brand new savage 12 bvss by about $500.00ish. I cant see buying a rifle already tricked out and then you don't know what yo fix or do, pay a gunsmith more money that I personally will do myself. It is to each their own, but since I am on budget and will be happy with the rifle I stay my course. Smiles

Oh I understand that what one believe is the value of what one has versus what reality will pay for such is always two different things. As in, I have a basement Model train HO Scale layout that has been shown nationally and locally in both magazine and conventions. I believe it is worth a lot from the comments but in the real world only worth what I can see the parts sell USED for.

So in the value of the rifle it is what I put into it. That said I am quite choose on what I do to it and how much I put into it. I don't hunt, I enjoy the shooting at distance for accuracy. Will I compete nationally, NO. I enjoy competing against myself as I work to shoot better for myself and me. The comps I have been in, i think 3 that I made to the final round for about 6 shooters. It was ok, but no big thrill to me for the others some are way over the top competitive but then to each their own.

Currently all I have in the action is $175.00 so far so looking to build the entire rifle and compete to my needs for under a $1000.00 for a proper Built 308 F class FTR rifle.

 

[NDSU]

You’re fine. Screw your Criterion onto your action, bed it into your stock, and then, PRACTICE. Dry fire as much as you shoot live ammo.

 

[jnm300ultra]

There are a few ways to go about getting your new rifle. I have experience with exactly what you are going. I started shooting FTR with a REM 700 police in 308 with a 26” factor barrel. Next I bought a factory Savage FTR rifle in 308 and it’s probably the most accurate factory rifle I had. My buddy was shooting FTR beside me and he decided to go a different route. He bought 4 Savage target rifles. 2 @ 308, 1 @ 223, 6BR, 6.5x284 so 5 savage target rifle. He changed all the barrels and bedded them too. Now he only shoots his custom Kelby 308/223. He has 2 bolts for one rifle. Now we always says he wishes he wouldn’t have bought all those savages. As for me I decided to start and shoot F Class and bought a used Nesika and changed the barrel into a 6.5x47 Lapua. 3 years later I then built a custom Borden BRLXD in 284, McMillan Kestros stock, Bartlin barrel, Jewell trigger.
1. Start with a Savage or REM for your build and buy all the parts to make the best shooting Savage money can buy and never get back 1/2 your money. One of my friends went this route and the rifle shoots great.

2. Buy a Savage FTR rifle in 308 and shoot it the way it’s, maybe buy a new barrel would be my suggestion. This makes sense if you only want to start shooting right away without waiting for parts and smith’s.

3. Build a full custom rifle. There is some downside.
1. Wait till, parts, smiths, and the huge cost.
The upside is you get exactly what you want and have no excuse. Remember if you don’t shoot enough or practice your stock Savage/REM or used rifle will place you in the same rankings. Trust me I know, that’s me .

Good luck with your decision,
Jason

 

[jnm300ultra]

Can you pick up a factory Savage competition stock? If you've never had a Richard's not-so-microfit stock, just know that it's going to take a lot of finish work if you're not familiar with stock work. I've done a lot of stock and everything I do is by hand and it’s typically 20ish hours work for a Richards.

I really liked my FTR savage competition stock. I just put a Kartsen cheek riser on mine.
Jason

 

[Fast14riot]

I am currently looking at since on budget less than buying a brand new savage 12 bvss by about $500.00ish. I cant see buying a rifle already tricked out and then you don't know what yo fix or do, pay a gunsmith more money that I personally will do myself. It is to each their own, but since I am on budget and will be happy with the rifle I stay my course. Smiles

Oh I understand that what one believe is the value of what one has versus what reality will pay for such is always two different things. As in, I have a basement Model train HO Scale layout that has been shown nationally and locally in both magazine and conventions. I believe it is worth a lot from the comments but in the real world only worth what I can see the parts sell USED for.

So in the value of the rifle it is what I put into it. That said I am quite choose on what I do to it and how much I put into it. I don't hunt, I enjoy the shooting at distance for accuracy. Will I compete nationally, NO. I enjoy competing against myself as I work to shoot better for myself and me. The comps I have been in, i think 3 that I made to the final round for about 6 shooters. It was ok, but no big thrill to me for the others some are way over the top competitive but then to each their own.

Currently all I have in the action is $175.00 so far so looking to build the entire rifle and compete to my needs for under a $1000.00 for a proper Built 308 F class FTR rifle.

My $3000 700 started out as a used barreled action I bought for $800 from the classifieds here, put into a $95 40x rimfire stock, harris bipod and a Sightron SIII scope when I first started long range. I was on a really tight budget with young kids at the time. Then I got a rest and a new stock. Then a new barrel. Then... you get the picture.

The first barrel I had was a Criterion with a barrel nut, it shot well enough to get me to master level scores in its original configuration, even won a few club matches with it. In some ways I still really enjoy shooting that style of rifle at long range, so I built another one similar but in 6brx.

I still think a factory Savage target stock is going to be the best for the money you can find. They are really good stocks. A used Sinclair bipod for $100-150, the best trigger you can afford and even a fixed 36x scope will work well enough.

 

[Downeast]

Check Gunbroker. Used Savage 12's show up periodically. There was a Savage .308 BR on auction just yesterday.

 

[Walt Krafft]

Stop! For 200, 400, and 600 yards the 223 is fine. You need to learn to read the wind. A 308 is not going to change that, it will still be blown around. For 600 my favorite is a 80.5. Easy to get to shoot, easy to shoot, and cheaper than a 308. After shooting out a couple of 223 barrels, or starting to compete at 1000, then a 308 will make sense.

 

[CharlieNC]

Stop! For 200, 400, and 600 yards the 223 is fine. You need to learn to read the wind. A 308 is not going to change that, it will still be blown around. For 600 my favorite is a 80.5. Easy to get to shoot, easy to shoot, and cheaper than a 308. After shooting out a couple of 223 barrels, or starting to compete at 1000, then a 308 will make sense.

Exactly. Spend the money to get a good barrel, 7 twist to handle 90VLD, then try a few bullets to find your best. The last cbi barrels we bought had bad chamber work, even the replacements.

 

[cp255]

I think you’re underestimating the wind performance of .223 relative to .308. Heavier isn’t automatically better. Wind drift is driven by both ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity, not mass alone.

Take the .308 185 Juggernaut as an example (I used to shoot this), it has a G7 BC of about 0.279. The .223 F-TR load I shoot now, the 85.5 Hybrid, comes in at roughly 0.268 G7. While the BC is slightly lower, the higher muzzle velocity more than compensates, and at 600 yards the .223 actually shows less wind drift than the 185-grain .308 load I was using.

You did mention the 200-grain bullets, which do have a higher BC than the 185. Even though you give up some velocity, the increased BC still puts the .308 ahead in the wind. But that advantage comes with significantly more recoil.

For example, if you launch a 200-20X at 2650 fps and an 85.5 Hybrid at 2800 fps, the .308 only gains about a 16% reduction in wind drift at 600 yards. The real question is whether that modest improvement is worth the additional recoil.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Enjoy tricking out your own gun, to me it’s way more satisfying a lot of people don’t have that ability. Look at McGowen prefits.

 

[1911mag]

Stop! For 200, 400, and 600 yards the 223 is fine. You need to learn to read the wind. A 308 is not going to change that, it will still be blown around. For 600 my favorite is a 80.5. Easy to get to shoot, easy to shoot, and cheaper than a 308. After shooting out a couple of 223 barrels, or starting to compete at 1000, then a 308 will make sense.

Budget build - Suggestion
HS Precision Stock
Remington 700
Bartlien barrel 31" 1:7 Twist
Berger 85.5 Easy button, 90VLD's next
Best scope and trigger you can afford
Go out and have fun, learn wind

 

[Walt Krafft]

I will add, you never mention what scope you are using. That would be the first place to upgrade.

 

[Bentnail]

So my 223 REM is Ruger gen2 AS and I shoot 77gr with Varget. When they wind is crossing at 20 MPH doesnt matter what I do with 77gr I am still holding after adjusting windage to extreme in the 8 to 9 clicks into the wind and still have trouble getting on paper at 600 yards. Hence when I see those around me switch over to 308s to compensate for wind, struggle and score really really low for 20 shots. I currently on my 223 REM shooting 20MOA rail a athlon Argo Gen3 6-24X50. For the 308 I am going to up that to athlon Argos Gen 3 8-34X55 scope.

Now before I hear replace barrel on the 223 REM, I been shooting quite well at 200 and 400. I can hit 600 if the wind is less than 15 sustained. But over that I struggle. Hence why I am looking at 30 inch barrel and heavy stock to tame the recoil. I can shoot 80gr but havent looked into those. But I shoot Sierras with Varget and can make Match grade bullets in those.

 

[anon]

I like the BVSS stock. That is what I used with the target action. I bought two directly from Savage back when they were focused on selling us parts to build guns.

I also have a factory Savage F/TR, it was 223, long since shot out, but I shot it in our 1000yd matches too.

I still prefer the BVSS stock for my budget F/TR rifle.

 

[anon]

Also, notice the new F Practical Class. That is intended for the gear that you have.