.300 WSM WOW!

[R.Morehouse]

Not to detract or disrupt the thread but there are pro’s and con’s IMO on weighing verses trying to measure internal case capacity.
Back when I purchased a full 1600 piece case of Norma 300 WSM I had to decide how to go about segregation of it. - I did my full preparation steps to all of it, including neck-turning and then did segregation by weight.
I don’t have any regrets in what I’ve done. - The S/D numbers on the LabRadar and the groups on paper indicate uniformity.

Ron

How about taking the chrono and shooting your batch of ready to go brass over it. Separate the brass by speed and go from there. With 1600 pieces I am sure you will come up with a few relays that have an ES & SD of zero.......That was not an original thought. Bob Pastor put that one in my head some years back.

Regards
Rick

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

How about taking the chrono and shooting your batch of ready to go brass over it. Separate the brass by speed and go from there. With 1600 pieces I am sure you will come up with a few relays that have an ES & SD of zero.......That was not an original thought. Bob Pastor put that one in my head some years back.

Regards
Rick

Rick, - I don’t want to turn this thread into a “case capacity & methods of determining it”. - I’ve proven to myself (and that’s good enough for me) that weighing cases has merit. I’ve proved it with the 416 Barrett and a couple other large capacity cartridges. - I’m sure that weighing has some inherent flaws but I believe that it helps, so I do it. - I’m not here to force my thought process on anyone else. - Just a note of interest, in a 1600 round box of Norma 300 WSM Brass I saw a maximum weight spread of just over 4 grains AFTER full prep, including neck turning. - If someone doesn’t think that what I’m pursuing is valid then that’s up to them.
I will take everything I can gain to reduce variances in the reloading process as well as to assist my mental perception of the quality I pursue in the reloading processes.

- Ron -

 

[R.Morehouse]

Ron
I don't doubt you at all. You got it working for you and that is what really matters. Most of the shooting I am doing these days has me throwing charges directly into the brass......But not for long-range......Happy Shooting Amigo....

Regards
Rick

 

[Fred B.]

IMO, a high % of good shooting is confidence, besides good equipment and load. If you think clean brass shoots better or sorting brass etc, then that works for you and that’s all that matters. When you get behind the stock, you shouldn’t be thinking about weather you did everything you could or not, you should be thinking about what you can do at that moment.

What were we talking about again?

 

[dogdude]

I'm with Rick (and Bob) on the chrono. velocities, and its Easy too do .

 

[bpmoss1]

Forgive me but i do not understand weighing brass. Unless you somehow can test wall thicknesses and such, how do you know where that weight is distributed? And how that translates to case internal capacity? Wouldnt case volume make much more sense to measure? Although tedious. I would think consistant capacity is what would yield best results, as a case with a bit more material near the head lets say may weigh couple grains more but may hold more power than a lighter case. Maybe not, i never really looked into it.

In my mind if cases are fl sized and trimmed same then they should be externally uniform therefore any weight difference will result in different capacities, just my thinking.

 

[ShootDots]

In my mind if cases are fl sized and trimmed same then they should be externally uniform therefore any weight difference will result in different capacities, just my thinking.

Let's say for argument you are correct. Let's say the difference is as high as 2.0-2.5grs weight. Norma brass is pretty dang consistent. The difference in internal capacity is going to be very small. In a case the size of the .300WSM that may make the difference of maybe plus or minus 1 tenth grain>>>possibly 2 tenths grains? I can tell you from much "LabRadar" shooting, in a case the size of the .300WSM, the difference in a tenth or two is literally not more than 7-8f.p.s.>>>>this is within the "tolerance" of just the "normal" extreme spread on any given load.

 

[46and2]

I admit I weigh my cases but I can't help but wonder...

If complete combustion happened totally inside the case I could see a huge impact of having exactly the same case capacity. However, complere combustion happens far down the barrel .

So if peak pressure happens when the bullet is fully engraved into the lands and no longer inside the case. That means at that point is the "pressure vessel' to which volume of said pressure matters.???

Just thinking out loud.

 

[bpmoss1]

Let's say for argument you are correct. Let's say the difference is as high as 2.0-2.5grs weight. Norma brass is pretty dang consistent. The difference in internal capacity is going to be very small. In a case the size of the .300WSM that may make the difference of maybe plus or minus 1 tenth grain>>>possibly 2 tenths grains? I can tell you from much "LabRadar" shooting, in a case the size of the .300WSM, the difference in a tenth or two is literally not more than 7-8f.p.s.>>>>this is within the "tolerance" of just the "normal" extreme spread on any given load.

I'm certainly not going to argue as I know you are very knowledgeable. I first shot a 6br and now for a couple years a 6bra in 600/1000 br and was having a problem with fliers from the beginning , and eventually sought advice from some of the best shooters I know and some suggested weighing cases and a few recomended weighing primers (one claimed he'd done substantial testing and based on what he learned he would never not sort them again based on his results). Since then I've done both as recomended, and I swear the unexplainable fliers seem pretty much non-existent since. I believe it's probably due to the very few primers that are far outside the vast majority affecting ignition. All I know is I will continue to do so. Also, before I started sorting I invested in a Sartorius lab type scale to weigh powder charges that very less than 1 kernel, that did not stop the fiers, but I still do that too. Just trying to cover all the bases.

 

[ShootDots]

I'm certainly not going to argue as I know you are very knowledgeable. I first shot a 6br and now for a couple years a 6bra in 600/1000 br and was having a problem with fliers from the beginning , and eventually sought advice from some of the best shooters I know and some suggested weighing cases and a few recomended weighing primers (one claimed he'd done substantial testing and based on what he learned he would never not sort them again based on his results). Since then I've done both as recomended, and I swear the unexplainable fliers seem pretty much non-existent since. I believe it's probably due to the very few primers that are far outside the vast majority affecting ignition. All I know is I will continue to do so. Also, be for I started sorting I invested in a Sartorius lab type scale to weigh powder charges that very less than 1 kernel, that did not stop the fiers, but I still do that too. Just trying to cover all the bases.

I have no problem whatsoever for any shooter going as far as they feel they need to! Every thing you do (if it's done correctly) aides in the quest for accuracy. We get to a point of very diminishing returns. Once, we as individuals, decide that we have wrung out all the accuracy I am "willing to labor for" I will go "no further"... When going "further" makes loading more work than fun, I will have reached my saturation point. But MY saturation point may be and probably is different than many others. Going to extremes is not "bad or wrong", it ALL contributes to accuracy. So I am ALL FOR anyone doing everything they deem necessary to meet "their requirements" for a certain level of accuracy. Weighing cases, primers or whatever is perfectly fine with me and I am certain in some way, it all contributes to accuracy..

 

[1shot]

I'm in total agreement with Ben. I have 100% confidence in the steps I take in my brass/bullet prep as well as my reloading procedures. So my short answer is, if it makes you sleep better at night, do it.

Lloyd

 

[Raythemanroe]

One thing many of us do with brass is we number it with marker, we have plotter sheets and shots are numbered. That information helps you sort out problem brass that give flyers.


Ray

 

[Darwin]

One thing many of us do with brass is we number it with marker, we have plotter sheets and shots are numbered. That information helps you sort out problem brass that give flyers.


Ray

Thanks for sharing that Ray.

 

[260AckImp]

So as far as myself having 2 different lots of 300 wsm norma brass I should be right to load develop with one lot and be done? or would you run a load development for one lot of 50 brass and another load development for the other 50 lot of brass?

 

[dkhunt14]

So as far as myself having 2 different lots of 300 wsm norma brass I should be right to load develop with one lot and be done? or would you run a load development for one lot of 50 brass and another load development for the other 50 lot of brass?

I don't think you need to do load development for each lot of brass. I find Norma brass to be pretty consistent. I would load and shoot them as separate lots though. If the mixture in the brass alloy is different, it would be harder or softer then the other. That could allow vertical differences between the lots. But them I am a BR guy and what would I know. Matt

 

[DHuffman]

We do have an excellent boutique bullet maker here in Aus.

He has a great 103gr 6mm bullet that is very popular.

I have some of his new 183gr 7mm bullets that I am only just trialling in my 284. They are hot off his new dies.

The pic attached is Berger VLD, Hybrid and the new Aussie 183gr

Hopefully it will work well, to not be reliant on dribs and drabs of Berger’s would be great!!!

Please give updates on this bullet as you develop it. Thanks

 

[260AckImp]

I don't think you need to do load development for each lot of brass. I find Norma brass to be pretty consistent. I would load and shoot them as separate lots though. If the mixture in the brass alloy is different, it would be harder or softer then the other. That could allow vertical differences between the lots. But them I am a BR guy and what would I know. Matt

You would know about 1000 times more than me! Thanks for your time and information, greatly appreciated

 

[dougridgeore]

I think instead of weighing your brass you should instead spend that extra time figuring out if your going to shoot your string in tail-wind conditions or
cross-wind conditions and how to determine if the wind is at 1:30 or 2:30 and how to put a number on the speed of the wind...?
IMHO that is way more important than some theory that a tenth of a grain in case weight is going to make a measurable difference.
I think this sport is about putting holes in paper as close to the center as possible not not a precision reloading, as close to a finite point as possible, competition

 

[dkhunt14]

I think instead of weighing your brass you should instead spend that extra time figuring out if your going to shoot your string in tail-wind conditions or
cross-wind conditions and how to determine if the wind is at 1:30 or 2:30 and how to put a number on the speed of the wind...?
IMHO that is way more important than some theory that a tenth of a grain in case weight is going to make a measurable difference.
I think this sport is about putting holes in paper as close to the center as possible not not a precision reloading, as close to a finite point as possible, competition

In 1000 yard BR., Group takes preference over score. Not that it is right, but the way it's always been. Matt

 

[Orr89rocz]

Just ordered a 100 count bag of Norma brass from brownells. It came in a single bag of 100 so maybe they changed methods now? Or is brownells packaging it? Idk, i gotta clean size and prep then i may weigh just to see what happens

This has been a great read, very informative.

Ive got a question not only for @ShootDots but also anyone else who runs a 300 WSM at 1k.
Ive found Norma does 300 WSM brass in bags of 50, I was unlucky when I ordered my first 100 brass for an upcoming F Class build and got 2x 50 bags that are different lot numbers.

Do people weight sort/ batch the 300 WSM Norma brass? If so what is the best way to go about it.