300 Norma Improved

[rpierce]

I think I've just found my next rifle build. Absolutely bada$$ build, been wanting a magnum caliber for a while and this will be it. Thanks for posting.

Thank you. No problem at all. I have some complete rifles instock ready to ship. I have some in the XLR chassis and some in the manners eh1 setup. I also have all the parts to where you can take them to your local gunsmith.

 

[effendude]

Shooters,
This rifle continues to perform beyond my expectations. Weather and work have prevented final load development but both my buddy's and my rifles shoot into one hole at 100 yards. We stretched it to 600 yards a few weeks ago and my buddy (75 years young) shot a 2.5" wide, 1" high 3 shot group with his rifle with a mild load of N570 and the 230 Berger.

I highly recommend Ryan to all my friends and no one is ever disappointed!
Scott

 

[titegroup3]

has anyone tried Hornady ELDX 225 gr yet? I have been sticking with Bergers, but recently grabbed a box of ELDX.
If so how have they been?

 

[rpierce]

Haven't tried em. I just stick w bergers

 

[rpierce]

Here's a 300 Norma Improved I shipped out to Aaron Cothren. It has the following:

Kelbly Atlas Timed to a Triggertech Special
Manners EH1 scorched earth camo w Elite Cheek Piece
Proof Research Carbon Sendero Contour
Titanium Self Timing 5 Port "Muscle" Brake
APA bottom metal and 3 round accurate mag
ZCO 420 bedded into a set of Spuhr mounts

Rifles are instock ready to ship.

 

[JLDavid]

OMG!!!!!! Where have I been? This is the best thread on the forum right now. More information and build ideas for an absolute great cross canyon elk rifle. Thank you to all the contributers here especially Ryan Pierce. Time to start getting my parts together.

David

 

[rpierce]

OMG!!!!!! Where have I been? This is the best thread on the forum right now. More information and build ideas for an absolute great cross canyon elk rifle. Thank you to all the contributers here especially Ryan Pierce. Time to start getting my parts together.

David

Give me a shout. I have all the parts instock for these builds and have some complete rifles ready to ship. Actions, barrels, triggers, stocks, bottom metal, brakes, optics, dies etc are all instock.

Its really tough to beat this combo for long range elk hunting. No recoil, stupid accurate, amazing ballistics, and brass that will never wear out. I have a single piece of brass with 28 WARM firings on it and the primer pocket feels almost brand new. 230 berger at 3090 fps with retumbo in a 26" barrel. There was noticeable bolt click with each shot but I wanted to test it with loads that were hotter than what i would use. I gave up after 28 firings as the pocket hadn't hardly opened up at all. With any normal loads this brass won't wear out.

As a side note I have a customer thats been tinkering with the new 245 gr berger with very promising results so far. The ladder test showed single digit ES for almost a grain wide spread in powder in multiple different velocity nodes. His upper node he is going to test is using n570 and a 245 berger at 3015 fps. No bolt click and the brass has several firings on it already. The 2954 fps node had a ES of 0 fps for a .6 gr spread in powder. 87, 87.3 and 87.6 gr were 2954 fps.

 

[JLDavid]

Your killing me Ryan!!! Retumbo is my favorite powder and I love 30 caliber rifles. Is there a node around 3000fps with the 230gr Bergers? Just wanting to avoid the bolt click but run it as fast as I can accurately go. Looks like a sporter weight rifle is possible with this cartridge as long as a good brake is installed. That would be huge for me as the canyons I plan on going into are pretty rough country. Is a Still Tac 338 another good option for a 300NMI?

 

[rpierce]

Theres several nodes with 230 bergers. 2930, 3000 and 3030 fps is the nodes. I use n570 pretty much exclusively. You won't get a bolt click with retumbo at those nodes. The rifles Im building are 7.5-8.5 lbs without optics and I have no issues watching vapor trail and spotting hits with my 5 port brake installed. I don't have a program in my CNC lathe for a Tac338 and 300 nmi. I have them for Kelbly, Defiance, Lone Peak, and soon will have one for Pierce Engineering actions.

 

[Uglybird]

^Tell us about the Pierce Engineering actions!

 

[rpierce]

^Tell us about the Pierce Engineering actions!

Several years ago I had received a couple titanium actions from them. They were very sticky so i never ordered more. While talking to Jim at Pierce Engineering recently he had said they have made significant changes in the last few years to their titanium actions. He sent one to me to look at and evaluate. I was very impressed. The ignition was clean and had zero cock on close w a triggertech special. The titanium action was also DLC treated. The action was extremely smooth operating. Retail is $1600 for a lapua bf which is a very good deal considering it comes w DLC, 20 moa rail, and an ignition that doesn't need timed and corrected. The Lone peaks ive had in the shop have never had great ignition. 18 lb firing pin springs, insufficient firing pin travel, terrible cock on close, improperly supported firing pins. And they are a nightmare to order from and get stuff on time. Theyve never met a delivery deadline theyve given me. Actually had a left handed lapua fuzion on order for a year before i told em to cancel the order. I actually charge $500 more than retail on Lone peak actions for builds due to the complete pain in the ass that they are to deal with as a company and problems I have w the actions. As of what Ive seen I would say that the Pierce Engineering titanium action is the best made one out there and is a pretty good deal for guys wanting to shave 6oz or so. Theyre actually going to make some for me that have the same ejection port size as a kelbly and the same bolt dimensions. That way they will drop right into the pile of manners stocks I have inletted for Kelblys. Having the same bolt and headspace dimensions will allow me to use the same Kelbly programs in my cnc lathe for the Pierce. Won't have to rewrite all new programs and do reamer offsets.

 

[Uglybird]

^Very nice! Apart from weight, any preference? And have you tried the 250 a-tip, or is there not much to be gained over the 215 and/or 230 once velocity is factored in? If 250's do make sense, do you need more throat and/or twist, and does that make running 215's out of the same barrel less than optimal?

 

[rpierce]

I use the Kelblys for almost all of my personal stuff. Great tolerances. They cant be beat for the price considering the features. Full nitride, mechanical ejector, 20 moa rail, dual pin lug, and a trigger hanger for $1100. The problem with the 245 and 250s is the added recoil/torque in a light weight setup. According to the calculator its 10% more recoil. The customer of mine thats been doing some testing w 245 bergers has said its a noticeable difference in recoil vs 215@3200 or a 230@3000. Your ideally going to need a faster twist and longer throat which at that point will take the 215 bergers out of the equation. If you compare a 215 berger at 3200 fps you have 23.7 moa of drop at 1200 yds, 5.57" of drift per mph of wind and 1823 ft lbs of energy. It carries 1500 ft lbs of energy to 1400 yds. which is further than i would ever shoot at game w that cartridge. At 1200 yds with a 245 at 3000 fps you have 26 moa of drop, 5.13" of drift per mph of wind and 2061 ft lbs of energy. I think if a guy is going to run a 245 or 250 he needs to run a bigger case and wouldn't notice a difference until your way past the range of harvesting game with that combo. Essentially in a lightweight setup the juice isn't worth the squeeze for the super heavy bullets in my opinion.

 

[Uglybird]

Thanks for the great info - I'll have to call your shop at some point to go over build options. Been throwing ideas around for 6 mos and am still undecided on the config.

 

[rpierce]

Thanks for the great info - I'll have to call your shop at some point to go over build options. Been throwing ideas around for 6 mos and am still undecided on the config.

No problem. Sounds great. Just give me a shout when your ready. I have some rifles instock ready to ship. If a guy wants something thats different than the ready to ship options lead time is 12 weeks or less right now. As long as parts are instock.

 

[rpierce]

Check out this awesome 3 shot 6.35"/.35 moa group at 1740 yds from Zach Rose's 300 norma improved I built for him. Hes also sent several groups in the .1 moa range at 100 yds. 230 gr Bergers at 3030 fps w VV N570. Same load I have in my rifles.

 

[rpierce]

Well I threw the new tuner from Aaron Hipp on to my 30" barreled 300 norma improved. It screws right over the existing muzzle threads and then you screw your suppressor or brake back over the threads. I Did a ladder test at 580 yds w N570 and 230 gr bergers. 88.3 gr of N570 looked to be in the middle of the node. Loaded 3 rounds up and it shot 1.7" at 580 which was .279 moa. Figured that was good enough and started twisting the tuner. I moved the windage half moa after each setting so they wouldn't form a little cluster. I used the target vision camera to keep track of them. After a few increments I found the tuner setting. The first two shots were pretty much touching at 580 yds. I didn't let the barrel cool and grabbed the last round in the box and sent it down range as fast as I could. Ended up measuring .989"/.162 moa at 580 yds. Had .608"/.100 moa vertical. Definitely happy with this setup. The big TBAC SR 338 suppressor is awesome. Only problem is the norma improved heats it up really quick LOL.

Ill do some fine tuning on the tuner to see how wide the window is. But this definitely made load development easier. Load up a bunch of rounds at the same seating depth and tweak the tuner.

The range setup is perfect for load testing as its only 50 yds from the shop. The timber blocks the wind almost to the target when it comes from the west. Winds were almost non existent this morning. the kestral got up to 2mph winds. most of the time the fan didnt even move.

 

[rpierce]

Well I decided to try some reloader 50 with my 30" barrel heavy rig. This offers way better case fill than n570. I ended up using a 6" drop tube since without it pretty much a starting load had slight powder crunch. I had the 230 berger at 3150 fps with only a slight bolt click. 3190 fps was a noticeable click. The best node was at a mild 3085 fps which was 8 gr more powder than my n570 load for the same speed. With a 9 shot string over the labradar the ES was 11 and the SD was 3.6 fps. Held under 1.5" vertical at 580 yds also. Gonna try it out in my lightweight carbon barrel setup. This powder seems to be a lot easier on the throat also vs n570. I broke a 33xc barrel in with it and it looks almost brand new at 100 rounds. By contrast my carbon barrel with 190 rounds down it with mostly n570 looks like garbage. My buddy said it looked like his 6xc barrel at 2000 rounds lol.

 

[CBlack]

You would post this after I bought 16# of 570!

Well I decided to try some reloader 50 with my 30" barrel heavy rig. This offers way better case fill than n570. I ended up using a 6" drop tube since without it pretty much a starting load had slight powder crunch. I had the 230 berger at 3150 fps with only a slight bolt click. 3190 fps was a noticeable click. The best node was at a mild 3085 fps which was 8 gr more powder than my n570 load for the same speed. With a 9 shot string over the labradar the ES was 11 and the SD was 3.6 fps. Held under 1.5" vertical at 580 yds also. Gonna try it out in my lightweight carbon barrel setup. This powder seems to be a lot easier on the throat also vs n570. I broke a 33xc barrel in with it and it looks almost brand new at 100 rounds. By contrast my carbon barrel with 190 rounds down it with mostly n570 looks like garbage. My buddy said it looked like his 6xc barrel at 2000 rounds lol.
View attachment 1197138 View attachment 1197139 View attachment 1197140

 

[rpierce]

You would post this after I bought 16# of 570!

LOL. I have a bunch available if anyone needs it. If you were planning on using it in the 30-28 Im building you I would try h1000 first. I was able to get good ES and phenomenal accuracy with 215 and 230 bergers in the 30-28. N570 didn't give me that great of results in the 30-28. I might try reloader 50 in it though after the elk hunt. Right now its dialed and I don't wanna mess with anything. My buddy is gonna use it and Im bringing my norma improved.