• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

300 Norma Improved

That’s great info Ryan! Thank you… obtaining 1.35” shank barrels can be rather lengthy wait times currently!
I was concerned the tenon shoulder wouldn’t have had enough meat to distribute the spot face torque adequately.
I’m in Australia mate, if you’re able to help me with exporting the actions from your end, I’d be more than happy to purchase direct from you!
Chris Bixler at UB Exports handles alot of export stuff.
 
Was talking to Ryan earlier on the subject, but I was curious how wide are your nodes, with which powder? I was getting approx. .3gr on the low node and approx. .6gr on the high node. Rl50. Seems kinda narrow. Just curious what your guys were finding.
 
So I got some new 300 Norma Improved dies in from Bullet Central and decided to try them out on a brand new instock rifle with my new longer freebore reamer and a 26" barrel. I grabbed a pound of N570 off the shelf. I grabbed some brass that has been fired atleast 5 times. Just deprimed it, annealed it, trimmed it and ran a brush through the neck. Used imperial lube and ran it through the new die. I started out at 86 gr of N570 with 245 bergers. I did the powder charge test at 100 yds since it was too late in the day to go set my target camera and targets up at 580 yds. This was the first shots down the rifle. I didn't hit pressure until 93.5 gr of n570 which was 3127 fps. I had a slight ejector mark and a slight bolt click. I figured this was about max. I noticed there was a node 2 gr below max at 91.5 gr. 91-92 gr had an ES of 10 fps and was 3065 fps average. So I loaded the last 4 rounds up at 91.5 gr. Went out this morning and setup on my 580 yd steel plate. Had a little bit of a left to right wind. First shot went over the plate so I came down a minute and shot the next 3 shots into probably the tightest group Ive ever shot at 580 yds. It was on steel so I couldn't get an exact measurement of the group but it appeared that they all hit the same exact spot. When I got down there I couldn't differentiate any shots on the gray splat on the plate. 3065 fps with a 245 grain berger and its 2 grains under pressure. Punch the numbers in on that combo and its a straight up freight train.

Rifle has the following components:
Kelbly Atlas
Manners EH1
Proof carbon with 1.250 shank
Titanium self timing 5 port "Muscle" brake
Hawkins BDL with wyatts box
Triggertech Primary
Nightforce NX8 F2 4-32 MOA bedded and leveled into a set of 6 screw NF rings with NF level cap.

Rifle weighs 10 lbs 1 oz with optics.
I was able to spot hits no problem while shooting off the bipod with the scope at 26x. 245 grain @3065 fpsView attachment 1240874View attachment 1240875View attachment 1240876View attachment 1240877View attachment 1240878View attachment 1240879
Longer freebore for the 245 sounds great! That’s my plan Ryan is a 245. How well will the 230 work in that freebore as I have @400 left over from my 30-28
 
Where have you guy's seeing throat erosion at using 230 gr at your velocity nodes? per 100 rounds or what ever numbers you may have.
 
Nice rifle and great shooting :)
300 Norma Improved is a really cool round. I've fired 50 rounds through mine to form brass and break in the barrel, but haven't really got around to load development or LR testing yet. My barrel has a 1 in 8" twist so I can reliably use the new Sierra 230gr (.8 BC). Also have Berger 215s and 230s on hand. Looking forward to seeing what the round will do.

BTW: I put one of your Piercision 5 port slabbed self timing Muscle brakes on a different rifle (338-375 Ruger) a couple days ago and shot it today. I am very impressed with the ease of installation and effectiveness on recoil. Thanks for the fast shipping too. Will be using more of your brakes in the future :)

Couple pics of my 300 NMI.
View attachment 1067544

View attachment 1067545
Nice scope. Love mine.
 
Well I got to shoot my 300 Norma Improved this weekend at 1000. First 3 shot group was on the bottom of the target and had 1.9"/.114 moa of vertical. I came up too much for the second 3 shot group that had .431"/.041 moa vertical. Last shot was to hit waterline on the target and true up Kestral. I think shes ready to roll.
This was shot with a Tangent 3-15x Marksman off a bipod and a rear sand bag with a decent amount of mirage. This rifle is flat out hammering. Last time I shot it at 580 yds it had well under an inch of vertical for several groups in a row. Time to put it away til hunting season.

Borden Bigfoot
Manners EH1 w elite cheek piece
Proof Research Carbon 1.250 shank
TBAC Dominus SR suppressor
Tangent Theta 3-15M bedded into NF 6 screw ultra light rings
Triggertech Diamond
Hawkins M5 CIP+ bottom metal
Accurate mag
Cadex Falcon Lite bipod

Load Info:
Lapua Brass neck turned to .01325
90 Gr of N568
230 Berger OTM
Mild load at 2990 fps. Only getting .001-.002 throat erosion every 100 rounds.
ES is single digits for 10 shots.

rifle pic.jpg1000 yd pic 1.jpg1000 yd pic 2.jpg1000 yd pic 3.jpg
 
Ok , I m developing my load for LR, I have a 35 Improved , need some help as reloading supplies are very short down here , I have Micron Dies , 335 bushings

R33
R50
H870 ( use it in last K1M Argentina ) settle 90.5 with 250s, Normal chamber, used 335 bushing, Warner dies

A tip 250 s , had very good results with 250 in my traditional Norma set up , as I have these low burning powders I ll choose 250 over 230, can someone give me a clue on starting and max load? And also why would you prefer R33 or R 50?

R33 …..90?
R50 …..93?

Thank you !
 
Well I got to shoot my 300 Norma Improved this weekend at 1000. First 3 shot group was on the bottom of the target and had 1.9"/.114 moa of vertical. I came up too much for the second 3 shot group that had .431"/.041 moa vertical. Last shot was to hit waterline on the target and true up Kestral. I think shes ready to roll.
This was shot with a Tangent 3-15x Marksman off a bipod and a rear sand bag with a decent amount of mirage. This rifle is flat out hammering. Last time I shot it at 580 yds it had well under an inch of vertical for several groups in a row. Time to put it away til hunting season.

Borden Bigfoot
Manners EH1 w elite cheek piece
Proof Research Carbon 1.250 shank
TBAC Dominus SR suppressor
Tangent Theta 3-15M bedded into NF 6 screw ultra light rings
Triggertech Diamond
Hawkins M5 CIP+ bottom metal
Accurate mag
Cadex Falcon Lite bipod

Load Info:
Lapua Brass neck turned to .01325
90 Gr of N568
230 Berger OTM
Mild load at 2990 fps. Only getting .001-.002 throat erosion every 100 rounds.
ES is single digits for 10 shots.

View attachment 1331613View attachment 1331614View attachment 1331615View attachment 1331616
Wow!!!!! I want one!!!
 
Ok , I m developing my load for LR, I have a 35 Improved , need some help as reloading supplies are very short down here , I have Micron Dies , 335 bushings

R33
R50
H870 ( use it in last K1M Argentina ) settle 90.5 with 250s, Normal chamber, used 335 bushing, Warner dies

A tip 250 s , had very good results with 250 in my traditional Norma set up , as I have these low burning powders I ll choose 250 over 230, can someone give me a clue on starting and max load? And also why would you prefer R33 or R 50?

R33 …..90?
R50 …..93?

Thank you !
Not the improved version but, I shot with a buddy at the Niteforce ELR match this year.
He got 4th place shooting a straight 300
using 50bmg pushing the 250 A-tips. If I remember, right around 95. His only complaint was it was Dirty.
 
After a bunch of testing with the 300 NMI, we found that there is absolutely no reason to run a tight neck chamber. Using Lapua brass with a .342”-.343” chamber is perfect. The no-turn chambers are proving to be more accurate than any tight neck chamber design. Only thing you are getting from a tight neck chamber in the e NMI is a lot more work to prep the brass. And after all that extra labor, you won’t see any accuracy advantages over a no-turn
 
After a bunch of testing with the 300 NMI, we found that there is absolutely no reason to run a tight neck chamber. Using Lapua brass with a .342”-.343” chamber is perfect. The no-turn chambers are proving to be more accurate than any tight neck chamber design. Only thing you are getting from a tight neck chamber in the e NMI is a lot more work to prep the brass. And after all that extra labor, you won’t see any accuracy advantages over a no-turn
You might wanna measure your neck thickness. Alot of the new brass has been coming in at .3395-.340 loaded neck diameters. Its way too thick and absolutely needs turned. Guys were getting pressure signs etc on mild loads until we figured out the issue. Turned the necks and pressure signs went away. Im using a .3425 neck and am turning it so there is more than enough clearance. Turning the brass on the IDOD trimmer is the way to go. Turns the inside and outside into the neck in one shot. Brass with an absolute pile of firings still doesnt have a donut on it. Freebore isn't quite as crucial when you don't have to worry about a donut.
 
You might wanna measure your neck thickness. Alot of the new brass has been coming in at .3395-.340 loaded neck diameters. Its way too thick and absolutely needs turned. Guys were getting pressure signs etc on mild loads until we figured out the issue. Turned the necks and pressure signs went away. Im using a .3425 neck and am turning it so there is more than enough clearance. Turning the brass on the IDOD trimmer is the way to go. Turns the inside and outside into the neck in one shot. Brass with an absolute pile of firings still doesnt have a donut on it. Freebore isn't quite as crucial when you don't have to worry about a donut.
it’s good to clean the brass up with a turner tho I don’t turn inside. Never a donut issue and that’s checking my case necks on a milling machine with a dial indicator, not just goin by feel with a pick. People get too worried about donuts sometimes. Can they be a problem? Yeah sure sometimes they can wreak a little havoc but that’s usually on wildcats where cases are being necked up or case designs with shallow shoulder angles that like to grow a lot. Your best answer to a donut is to ensure the freebore in your reamer doesn’t allow seating if the bullet bearing surface down into the donut area at the base of the neck.

It’s kind like ES, SD, and runout. People get all worked up about getting too serious numbers as low as possible and they forget to put more attention to what the targets are telling them. So who really cares what all those numbers are if the accuracy you are looking for is consistent on paper. Some of my best loads had a 20 fps ES. Just liked the harmonics in that speed range

If your chamber necks are a little too tight for no turn brass then a tweak on the reamer dimensions is probably in order. Unless of course a person enjoys turning necks for some reason. Necks just don’t need to be tight in the big magnums. No problem having .004-.005” clearance with a .343-.344” neck reamer.
 
Last edited:
it’s good to clean the brass up with a turner tho I don’t turn inside. Never a donut issue and that’s checking my case necks on a milling machine with a dial indicator, not just goin by feel with a pick. People get too worried about donuts sometimes. Can they be a problem? Yeah sure sometimes they can wreak a little havoc but that’s usually on wildcats where cases are being necked up or case designs with shallow shoulder angles that like to grow a lot. Your best answer to a donut is to ensure the freebore in your reamer doesn’t allow seating if the bullet bearing surface down into the donut area at the base of the neck.

It’s kind like ES, SD, and runout. People get all worked up about getting too serious numbers as low as possible and they forget to put more attention to what the targets are telling them. So who really cares what all those numbers are if the accuracy you are looking for is consistent on paper. Some of my best loads had a 20 fps ES. Just liked the harmonics in that speed range

If your chamber necks are a little too tight for no turn brass then a tweak on the reamer dimensions is probably in order. Unless of course a person enjoys turning necks for some reason. Necks just don’t need to be tight in the big magnums. No problem having .004-.005” clearance with a .343-.344” neck reamer.
New reamers are 5 months out or more and brass is hard to get and changes on every lot. Every time I get a new reamer its thousands of dollars since its carbide and requires several practice chambers to get broken in. At $400 per chamber in labor that adds up quick. I just bought a "super duper" reamer from a manufacturer. $800 per carbide reamer and you had to order two per cartridge. Its on its 5th practice chamber and still not cutting quite perfect. Close but not there yet. Ya I could use HSS but that gets expensive as they need replaced if used alot. Some of the carbide reamers I have got on the shelf have chambered over 100 and still cut like brand new.

I agree that ES etc doesn't make a huge difference depending on the load. A guy can tune a terrible es load to shoot really good. And a lot of my most accurate loads weren't single digit es etc. But I can keep the ES 20 or less for 20 shots which puts the SD in the 5 range.

Ive been giving more than .005 clearance in the necks and brass has more than 30 firings on it. Annealed everytime on the AMP annealer. Accuracy has been phenomenal with every berger ive tried in it so far. No downside to a little extra clearance.
 
Last edited:
You might wanna measure your neck thickness. Alot of the new brass has been coming in at .3395-.340 loaded neck diameters. Its way too thick and absolutely needs turned. Guys were getting pressure signs etc on mild loads until we figured out the issue. Turned the necks and pressure signs went away. Im using a .3425 neck and am turning it so there is more than enough clearance. Turning the brass on the IDOD trimmer is the way to go. Turns the inside and outside into the neck in one shot. Brass with an absolute pile of firings still doesnt have a donut on it. Freebore isn't quite as crucial when you don't have to worry about a donut.
I made my last 2 reamers with 3425 neck , first one was my normal and had a conversation with you Ryan some years back, don t now if you remember me…..I m the guy from Argentina I went also with 256 freebore and it’s an absolute hammer, now I went 35 improved version same neck different freebore as I m willing to run 250 s as base bullet , no need to turn necks but Check them also, using a 335 bushing , anneal each fire , my spread is not more than 10 feets using a local powder near H1000 called A19 ….really happy all my set ups are LR use, by the way never had a pressure spike, tomorrow I ll be playing with some R33 that is hardly to find and I m trying to develop a final load fast and looking for results on twice fired brass , seems promising at 100 but need to drive it to a mile at the end of month, I stock same brass lot for all my barrels and try not to blow all my previous work, by the way …your brake is phenomenal
 

Attachments

  • 1847568E-6EB3-455B-B6FF-375A73802AEC.jpeg
    1847568E-6EB3-455B-B6FF-375A73802AEC.jpeg
    242 KB · Views: 21
  • 85E5AC31-5092-4D06-A13D-8E4340EA7E76.jpeg
    85E5AC31-5092-4D06-A13D-8E4340EA7E76.jpeg
    326.9 KB · Views: 19
  • 8BAE4010-BABB-45BE-A78C-A3D08C876B5E.jpeg
    8BAE4010-BABB-45BE-A78C-A3D08C876B5E.jpeg
    322.3 KB · Views: 19
Last edited:
So today I made my first impresions with R33, in an improve version , I got dirty and smokey brass from each shoot, went from 89 up to 90.5 with 250 s , barrel is 26 inch very low spread and speed given were

89 2816/2825
90 2855/2863
90.5 2883/2893

Stopped at this load, no sticky or heavy bolt lift but felt so high recoil that prefer to come back and do some measures on the bottom of brass , hopefully everything was ok , my groups were very weird I only sent 3 shoots per load and the pattern was repeat 2 shoot together 1 shoot flyer in all 3 loads vertical dispersion…. , I could say was me as felt more recoil than ever before and I was not feeling confident , will need to repeat but I ll post them maybe someone could give me a clue , I m blaming on me at this first trial
 

Attachments

  • C59FA3DF-E562-4C76-9DD9-2DC6CF7FA738.jpeg
    C59FA3DF-E562-4C76-9DD9-2DC6CF7FA738.jpeg
    388.9 KB · Views: 20
  • 34B7C3FD-93E7-4948-8828-C97CB1C4A45A.jpeg
    34B7C3FD-93E7-4948-8828-C97CB1C4A45A.jpeg
    549.8 KB · Views: 20
  • EE50EED0-6DC7-44E6-8328-E3114A53CE51.jpeg
    EE50EED0-6DC7-44E6-8328-E3114A53CE51.jpeg
    333.6 KB · Views: 20

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,851
Messages
2,204,641
Members
79,160
Latest member
Zardek
Back
Top