300 Norma build what action to use!

[moondog]

Thanks Ron
I'm doing a 6.5x55GWI to run the 150s, or at least try. For that build,
I have a Atlas Black Bear Long action coming. I want to do a 30 as well I've not had good luck with
Nosler or, Mixed resulys with Norma. Iv'e never run Hornady Brass so, Brass, Brass, Brass.
I'm gunna Run that 338 imp again this weekend. Wish me luck!
Tod

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I'm running a BAT 1.47" Model M (single-shot) on the 300 NM Imp.

Thanks Ron
I'm doing a 6.5x55GWI to run the 150s, or at least try. For that build,
I have a Atlas Black Bear Long action coming. I want to do a 30 as well I've not had good luck with
Nosler or, Mixed resulys with Norma. Iv'e never run Hornady Brass so, Brass, Brass, Brass.
I'm gunna Run that 338 imp again this weekend. Wish me luck!
Tod

Good Luck on your endeavors Tod !!! - There's been some good info posted on the 300 PRC by Frank Green & Dave Tooley and they were using Hornady brass so hopefully you have a decent chance. - I don't know a whole lot about Hornady's brass & have seen "mixed" reviews on here regarding it.
- When I'm doing a rifle project, brass mfgr. is one of my major concerns. - The 300 Norma Mag. Imp. that I'm doing materialized because Peterson actually had brass on the shelves available and Kevin Thomas sent me the samples of Lapua's brass which is still waiting to hit the major distributors. (Graf's & Powder Valley - which I already have pre-orders placed months ago).
- Just as a side-bar note, I'm doing a 30 Nosler also throated for the 230's and I was quite apprehensive at first until I received the brass I have. - It had less than a 1.0 grain spread over a 200 round of the same lot batch. - As long as I don't push it I expect some decent life from it. - I know it can be hit & miss with some of the mfgrs. - And start off "easy" from a pressure standpoint when starting out hand-loading & see what the brass will take & for how many firings.

- Ron -

 

[moondog]

I'm running a BAT 1.47" Model M (single-shot) on the 300 NM Imp.


Good Luck on your endeavors Tod !!! - There's been some good info posted on the 300 PRC by Frank Green & Dave Tooley and they were using Hornady brass so hopefully you have a decent chance. - I don't know a whole lot about Hornady's brass & have seen "mixed" reviews on here regarding it.
- When I'm doing a rifle project, brass mfgr. is one of my major concerns. - The 300 Norma Mag. Imp. that I'm doing materialized because Peterson actually had brass on the shelves available and Kevin Thomas sent me the samples of Lapua's brass which is still waiting to hit the major distributors. (Graf's & Powder Valley - which I already have pre-orders placed months ago).
- Just as a side-bar note, I'm doing a 30 Nosler also throated for the 230's and I was quite apprehensive at first until I received the brass I have. - It had less than a 1.0 grain spread over a 200 round of the same lot batch. - As long as I don't push it I expect some decent life from it. - I know it can be hit & miss with some of the mfgrs. - And start off "easy" from a pressure standpoint when starting out hand-loading & see what the brass will take & for how many firings.

- Ron -

I used Nosler on my first 7SAUM build and it was the worst brass I have ever used---Period!
super uniform, beautifully prepped. first firing was good, second ok, junk by the third.
I anneal and wasn't stepping on it hard. I'm using 300saum brass now and hopeful.
I sent it back to Nosler with my load----Crickets! It developed cracks that ran from
the 200 line up the case to the shoulder. 600 pieces of brass at $2 a shot hurt!
I have 2 7SAUMS short and long actions. Remington has been good with prep work.
I have 7 cycles on my first 200. down to my last 250 of those. Ain't getting anymore
Remington brass in the foreseeable future as far as I can tell.
The 300 PRC looks good-----except the brass. And I really don't mind sorting, turning,
prepping brass IF I get good results in the end. Chances of someone making good Brass
for the 30 nosler or 300PRC, who knows. Sometimes I hate this game.
Tod

 

[TroyG]

I used Nosler on my first 7SAUM build and it was the worst brass I have ever used---Period!
super uniform, beautifully prepped. first firing was good, second ok, junk by the third.
I anneal and wasn't stepping on it hard. I'm using 300saum brass now and hopeful.
I sent it back to Nosler with my load----Crickets! It developed cracks that ran from
the 200 line up the case to the shoulder. 600 pieces of brass at $2 a shot hurt!
I have 2 7SAUMS short and long actions. Remington has been good with prep work.
I have 7 cycles on my first 200. down to my last 250 of those. Ain't getting anymore
Remington brass in the foreseeable future as far as I can tell.
The 300 PRC looks good-----except the brass. And I really don't mind sorting, turning,
prepping brass IF I get good results in the end. Chances of someone making good Brass
for the 30 nosler or 300PRC, who knows. Sometimes I hate this game.
Tod

I have some Bertram 28 Nosler brass to try. Supposed to be able to digest stout loads. I am not impressed with Nosler brass. ADG is gearing up to make 28 Nosler brass, maybe more news at SHOT.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

No belt for starters, I know the twist is a lil slow for the heavies, but a 200gr bullet would be moving rather smartly.
Dont you think?
I've personally never owned a magnum rifle,
30-06 has been my go to all my life.
I was gonna give my 700 a new barrel until i started playing with 185vld's. Now its shootin high .2's low .3's why mess with it.
Took a personal poll with a few members about going 06' improved and got mixed feed back. And i really dont need another 06' other than it wouldn't be a stock rig.
What if i went straight 300 norma and left the improved version alone, would that be more suitable for my needs as a hunter?

Yes a 200 gr. bullet would indeed be moving at a right fair clip from a 300 Norma Magnum - And there's a good chance that an accurate load could be found with the amount of available bullets on the market. - If your just planning to use the rifle to hunt with, I see nothing against staying with a straight 300 Norma Mag. - Accuracy is a combination of many factors and isn't reliant on the "improving" of a cartridge, after all look at the regular 6mm BR. - One of the most accurate and preferred cartridges for the 600 yard BR game & also does well at 1000. - A standard cartridge design is cheaper to load for as standardized market available dies are readily available. And the brass is already formed to near the chamber dimensions. - For a straight hunting rifle the justification to go improved probably isn't something that most owners would want to invest the additional time and cost into. - Shooting an "improved" design isn't for everyone, but there are some shooters that like experimenting and seeking additional performance.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I have some Bertram 28 Nosler brass to try. Supposed to be able to digest stout loads. I am not impressed with Nosler brass. ADG is gearing up to make 28 Nosler brass, maybe more news at SHOT.

I'm happy to hear that other manufacturers are stepping up (ADG) and bring additional calibers to market, it causes the others to get their act together or loose the business. - Also I've seen "a" manufacturer make brass that is good in one caliber and not so good in another, Bertram in particular I can state is one company that qualifies in regards to this statement.

 

[dkhunt14]

Ok next question.
I have a .30 cal Krieger blank
w/ 4 1/2 contour 4 groove 1n11 that will finish @26.
Is this sufficient for 300 norma improved?

I run 210 Berger VLD IN 11 TWIST. I have also ran them in a 10. This is a WSM and i haven't seen no difference in accuracy between the two. This is for 1000 yard BR, so i know they are stable. As a side note the 10 twist will spin them harder and probably open them up better for hunting. If i can make them stable in an 11 with a WSM, they surely will stable at your velocity. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

There are lots of 300 Normas around. If you go to longrangehunting you will find way more info. Do a search and you will see there are alot of them. The WSM is a good case, tough as nails, easy to tune, throats hardly move and just a tad slower then a Norma. Matt

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Makes complete sense.
Your absolutely right on improving a cartridge. Reading everything on velocity gains over the years is what intrested me in
Improved as I'm sure it has with so many others.
So taking your advice to heart. If I'm having to save for the custom action, costs of custom dies and reamer just add to the equation.
I'd like to also say as to why not a WSM or 300WM.
The 300 norma is unique and different than either one of the others which makes it appealing to me.
Probably should have never read the artical in GUNS&AMMO 28 Nosler vs 300 Norma.
I thought artical was a rouse to promote the 28 Nosler. Of which I see a lot of at the range.
We all know they've never used marketing to sway a shooter into what they want us to shoot. Or have they?
I've yet to talk to anyone locally shooting the Norma. Now that's appealing!!

I shoot both the 280 Ackley Improved and the 28 Nosler in "accuracy" type bolt action rifles and the 28 Nosler is about a 250 fps step up in velocity when comparing 180 gr. Berger bullets shot from both in their accuracy nodes. - I'm sure the barrels on the 28 Nosler will be toast way before the 280 A.I. and that is why I had 4 barrels chambered when the rifle (28 Nosler)was built.
- What captured my interest regarding the 300 Norma & an Improved was the fact that it was a .580 case head design in a 30 caliber and I already had 3 actions with this bolt face set up to run 338 Lapua (Improveds). - I wanted another big 30 caliber that wasn't quite as over-bore as the 30-378 Weatherby is, and to be able to use high quality brass (Peterson & Lapua). - So the addition of adding it to an already switch-barrel set-up make sense at least to me and it is a cheaper option than building an entire dedicated rifle from scratch so that is another reason that I pursued it. - The 300 Norma Mag. Imp. will share the BAT Model "M" action with barrels chambered in 338 Lapua Imp. - basically I get to choose 2 calibers to shoot from 1 rifle, although I can only shoot 1 caliber at a time.

 

[ELR Researcher]

Looking at building a 300 norma, what would be a good action to build off

Lone Peak Arms Fuzion TI
Stiller Tac338
American Rifle company Mausingfield
let me know what you have
Thxs

1. The Fuzon TI, at least as listed on their website, is not available with a 338 LM BF - you'd be looking at their Razor Ti 338 ($100 less at $1600). Its listed as weighing 25.5 oz
2. The Mausingfield is also $1600. Its listed as weighing 38.4 oz
3. The TAC 338 is $1145 direct from Stiller, less elsewhere. Its listed (old website) as weighing 36 oz.
4. Not on your list, so far:
a. Pierce Titanium action - $1385, 20.8 oz - http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/category/actions/product/titanium-action
b. Curtis Custom Axiom - $1125, weight unknown - http://www.curtiscustom.com/product/axiom-4/
c. X-treme 338 Ti - $unknown, 13.64 oz (body only) - http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/images/Receiver Spec Flyer 4C 8.5x11- Comp.pdf
d. many others at https://www.elr-resources.com/Receiver Matrixes - All 09202018.xls

 

[kthomas]

My .300NM rifle is using a Defiance Deviant action that has been polished and DLC'ed. Works great for it's purpose, and you can order your action from Defiance spec'ed the way you want - lot's of options. Make sure you get the magwell cut for CIP length magazines so you don't have to limit your OAL.

 

[Borisserge]

I suppose as part of the decision making, can anyone post up dimensions of the actions, and bolt diameter.
It lets people know how oversized the actions are. Eg. Is 1.250" action diameter with 0.700" bolt minimum, going up to 1.550" and 0.750 bolt maximum and reasonable as a sporting rifle.
It also allows the diameter of barrel to be chosen as a consideration of build weight etc.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I suppose as part of the decision making, can anyone post up dimensions of the actions, and bolt diameter.
It lets people know how oversized the actions are. Eg. Is 1.250" action diameter with 0.700" bolt minimum, going up to 1.550" and 0.750 bolt maximum and reasonable as a sporting rifle.
It also allows the diameter of barrel to be chosen as a consideration of build weight etc.

BAT Machine Company has an "Action Matrix" link on their web-site that provides that information on their line of actions.
IMO a BAT Model HR (Repeater), M, CT, or L are the ones you'd be interested in if you like BAT Machine as a provider.
I personally think the barrel Tenon needs to be 1.125 & up for this case head size, that way there is enough thickness to handle the pressure and help alleviate extraction issues. - Barnard makes a PC action that is a 3 lug that would work very well also.
I'm sure some of the other gent's can state their opinions on the big Stiller and the Defiance actions.
I was told by Greg Taylor that Jim Borden is bringing a 338 Lapua sized action to market sometime in 2019 which I'm interested to see as Borden's Quality is Excellent.

- As far as "size" goes, after the minimum sizing requirements have been met then the size of action probably depends on exactly what kind / application the rifle is meant for. - For example if a person wanted a hunting rifle with a magazine then the BAT model HR or a Defiance action would probably be some that should have consideration, IF its a Barrel Block Gun possibly meant for E2K Unlimited then a Big Single-Shot might be the one to pick.

- Ron -

 

[jb1023]

1. The Fuzon TI, at least as listed on their website, is not available with a 338 LM BF - you'd be looking at their Razor Ti 338 ($100 less at $1600). Its listed as weighing 25.5 oz
2. The Mausingfield is also $1600. Its listed as weighing 38.4 oz
3. The TAC 338 is $1145 direct from Stiller, less elsewhere. Its listed (old website) as weighing 36 oz.
4. Not on your list, so far:
a. Pierce Titanium action - $1385, 20.8 oz - http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/category/actions/product/titanium-action
b. Curtis Custom Axiom - $1125, weight unknown - http://www.curtiscustom.com/product/axiom-4/
c. X-treme 338 Ti - $unknown, 13.64 oz (body only) - http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/images/Receiver Spec Flyer 4C 8.5x11- Comp.pdf
d. many others at https://www.elr-resources.com/Receiver Matrixes - All 09202018.xls

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I am looking at a similar build to the OP and your list has several that I had not even known about.

 

[boltfluter]

I would not build any Norma Mag cartridge on a Remington 700 action. To much bolt thrust so the action makers tell me. Better safe than sorry.

Paul

 

[carlsbad]

I would not build any Norma Mag cartridge on a Remington 700 action. To much bolt thrust so the action makers tell me. Better safe than sorry.

Paul

Paul,
300 norma Magnum is fine on a Remington action. The Remington lawyers let them build and sell 338 Lapua Magnum on a stock Remington action. 300 NM has quite a bit less thrust. If lawyers are anything, they are risk averse. I'm getting ready to build a 300 NM Improved for myself on a Remington Short Action single shot action. I had a long action prepared for it but decided i want it single shot.

I know lots of people say lots of things and much of it is from "I read it on the internet", but there is no way a Remington action threads, or any other heavy action threads, will fail from 100,000 normal rounds of 338LM. The lower action lug would be the first to go because it has very little backup material, but this would not be catastrophic. Anyone who has had an action fail had a squib or a reloading error (or a cleaning rod. I don't bring cleaning rods to the range). There was recently a 375 cheytac fail and blow apart. After they picked up the pieces and the threads were mangled, there was speculation that the gunsmith did a poor threading job. I guarantee it was a squib or similar. Threads will of course look horrible after failure.

Because I can, and because many recommend it, I am going to recut the threads on the Remington action to 1.125 x 16 (from 1.062 x 16). Hey, machining is fun and if I ever sell it this will be a selling point. It gives you more thickness in the tenon.

I'm building a 33XC on a bat action, again with 1.125 x 16 threads. It is long action single shot. I would have built it on a Remington action but they don't make long action single shot.

--Jerry

 

[missed]

I'm building mine on a ARC Mausingfield.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Paul,
300 norma Magnum is fine on a Remington action. The Remington lawyers let them build and sell 338 Lapua Magnum on a stock Remington action. 300 NM has quite a bit less thrust. If lawyers are anything, they are risk averse. I'm getting ready to build a 300 NM Improved for myself on a Remington Short Action single shot action. I had a long action prepared for it but decided i want it single shot.

I know lots of people say lots of things and much of it is from "I read it on the internet", but there is no way a Remington action threads, or any other heavy action threads, will fail from 100,000 normal rounds of 338LM. The lower action lug would be the first to go because it has very little backup material, but this would not be catastrophic. Anyone who has had an action fail had a squib or a reloading error (or a cleaning rod. I don't bring cleaning rods to the range). There was recently a 375 cheytac fail and blow apart. After they picked up the pieces and the threads were mangled, there was speculation that the gunsmith did a poor threading job. I guarantee it was a squib or similar. Threads will of course look horrible after failure.

Because I can, and because many recommend it, I am going to recut the threads on the Remington action to 1.125 x 16 (from 1.062 x 16). Hey, machining is fun and if I ever sell it this will be a selling point. It gives you more thickness in the tenon.

I'm building a 33XC on a bat action, again with 1.125 x 16 threads. It is long action single shot. I would have built it on a Remington action but they don't make long action single shot.

--Jerry

300 Norma has the same bolt thrust as a 338 lapua, same case head diameter and pressures. I have measured lug setback in Remingtons that I have not in customs, for that reason I dont use them. I have also found Remingtons to show pressure signs a little sooner. But your right, it has been done and continues to be done.

 

[carlsbad]

Alex,
You're right. Bolt thrust is about the same. I misspoke. and yes, the lower lug is the weak point. We've all seen things on remingtons we don't see on others and one reason is there are so many more remingtons out there. Another reason is that remingtons tend to be consumer rifles that get abused more. I agree, remingtons can show pressure signs earlier but a good fitting bolt helps that.

--Jerry

 

[kgoltz]

Haven't seen any comments but add Mesa Crux Titanium with the lapua bolt face.