.284 Win with new 195g Hybrid bullets

[kyreloader]

I wanted to take a few minutes to discuss my experience with the new 195g Berger Elite Hybrids in my .284 Win F-open rifle.

I have a 30" Bartlein barrel chambered in .284 Win with a .188 freebore and 1:9 twist. I was worried about that freebore with the new long 195s so did some overall length testing. With the Hornady tool, the bullet touched the lands with an ogive measurement of 2.505". After reading a thread on here about how to measure jam, I chambered a case with the new bullet and closed the bolt. Upon measuring that case, it measured 2.565" measured to the ogive. Now, the 2.505" measurement put the pressure ring/BT-bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction. The 2.565" measurement was about perfect.

So I then did a pressure test through the chronograph looking for velocity and pressure at jam length starting at 52.7g and ending at 54.5g of H4831SC. The velocity was 2615-27 fps. I then shot three rounds of each load in 0.3g increments in a modified ladder test at 600 yards. There was a nice node at 54.2-54.5g shooting three shot groups between 2-2.5" at the same elevation and again no pressure signs were noted.

Settling on the load of 54.35g of H4831SC with the 195g bullet at 2.565" ogive measurement, I loaded up a jam minus test starting at jam then moving the bullet in 3 thous until jam -15 thous. The day that I wanted to shoot this load at the 600 yard range, it started raining, so was only able to shoot the jam load there again it shot in the 2" range.

I had a Palma match scheduled for this weekend, so kept the 12 I already had loaded, but loaded enough for 22 rounds keeping the rest at jam length.

Shooting the OAL test today at 800 yards for the Palma match, I was able to shoot a 199-10Xs. I did not notice a change in elevation over the test range of overall length. I also noticed little windage, but we had good conditions this morning.

Overall, I am pleased with this bullet in my .284 Win barrel. I have a throater on order from JGS, so plan to lengthen the throat, but I would not feel handicapped shooting this load for any of my planned long range matches coming up.

Hope this is helpful for someone considering the 195s and .284 Win.

 

[ShootDots]

I had my throat on my Shehane opened up to a .300 freebore. I am planning on trying IMR 7828SSC.. I am hoping to get up past 2750 w/o any pressure signs. I am thinking somewhere between 55.0 and 55.5 should be about max. But only testing will tell me for sure. I am still waiting on the arrival of the bullets from Extreme Outdoors.. I have a straight 8 twist barrel for the 195's.. Thoughts??

 

[BT1]

I also have 3 boxes of the new 195s and have only completed some initial load testing using IMR 7828ssc. My main test barrel was a 7rsaum in a 32" 8.5tw Brux. I also ran a short stability test with a straight 284, 32" 9tw. I have been having great success with 7828ssc in my 284. The heavier bullets seem to stabilize fine with the 9tw, but only ran tests at 300 yards. Accuracy was good. Not as good as my match loads with 180 hybrids, but respectable and showed promise.

I also have a 7mm throater in hand with a set of bore bushings and zfastmalibu made up some chamber body centering bushings for both my 284 and 7rsaum chambers. Both the 284 and 7rsaum will need about 0.040 to 0.050 more freeboard to seat the 195s where I want them. I will report here on how my throating project works out.

I hope the 284 9tw will do the job. I have 3, 284, 9tw barrels that shoot great now. Sure would be nice if I could shoot the 195s in them.

Steve

 

[Andr01d]

BT1, I would be very interested to know what velocity you are getting out of the rsaum, I am debating what cartridge to choose for a new 1000 yd 7mm to upsize from my 6br for windy conditions. How is the recoil on the rsaum, are you using a muzzle break?

 

[BT1]

Andr01d,

I have not run them over a chrony yet, but expect to get 2850 to 2900 in the 7rsaum with 7828ssc. 32", 8.5tw barrel, no muzzle brakes in f-class. I have been having mixed results with the 7828ssc and if forced to go with 4350 or 4831sc the velocities will be in the low 2800's at best. These velocities are from calculations with Quick Load. If you are careful in entering all of the variables, the results are usually within 10 to 20 fps measured. I think the rsaum will be an ideal case for the 195. With my f-class season winding down, I will have more time to test the 195s.

If you do not have QL I can run the numbers for you, if you provide the details of the planned loaded round and barrel specs.

I did not notice any appreciable difference in the recoil over the 180s I have been shooting.

Steve

 

[bsumoba]

Andr01d,

I have not run them over a chrony yet, but expect to get 2850 to 2900 in the 7rsaum with 7828ssc. 32", 8.5tw barrel, no muzzle brakes in f-class. I have been having mixed results with the 7828ssc and if forced to go with 4350 or 4831sc the velocities will be in the low 2800's at best. These velocities are from calculations with Quick Load. If you are careful in entering all of the variables, the results are usually within 10 to 20 fps measured. I think the rsaum will be an ideal case for the 195. With my f-class season winding down, I will have more time to test the 195s.

If you do not have QL I can run the numbers for you, if you provide the details of the planned loaded round and barrel specs.

I did not notice any appreciable difference in the recoil over the 180s I have been shooting.

Steve

I too, decided to run the 180s for now and after the season, really play with the 195s. I think I can get them to shoot as I see some node areas to work around, I just need time with it, which I do not have before FCN.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I wanted to take a few minutes to discuss my experience with the new 195g Berger Elite Hybrids in my .284 Win F-open rifle.

I have a 30" Bartlein barrel chambered in .284 Win with a .188 freebore and 1:9 twist. I was worried about that freebore with the new long 195s so did some overall length testing. With the Hornady tool, the bullet touched the lands with an ogive measurement of 2.505". After reading a thread on here about how to measure jam, I chambered a case with the new bullet and closed the bolt. Upon measuring that case, it measured 2.565" measured to the ogive. Now, the 2.505" measurement put the pressure ring/BT-bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction. The 2.565" measurement was about perfect.

So I then did a pressure test through the chronograph looking for velocity and pressure at jam length starting at 52.7g and ending at 54.5g of H4831SC. The velocity was 2615-27 fps. I then shot three rounds of each load in 0.3g increments in a modified ladder test at 600 yards. There was a nice node at 54.2-54.5g shooting three shot groups between 2-2.5" at the same elevation and again no pressure signs were noted.

Settling on the load of 54.35g of H4831SC with the 195g bullet at 2.565" ogive measurement, I loaded up a jam minus test starting at jam then moving the bullet in 3 thous until jam -15 thous. The day that I wanted to shoot this load at the 600 yard range, it started raining, so was only able to shoot the jam load there again it shot in the 2" range.

I had a Palma match scheduled for this weekend, so kept the 12 I already had loaded, but loaded enough for 22 rounds keeping the rest at jam length.

Shooting the OAL test today at 800 yards for the Palma match, I was able to shoot a 199-10Xs. I did not notice a change in elevation over the test range of overall length. I also noticed little windage, but we had good conditions this morning.

Overall, I am pleased with this bullet in my .284 Win barrel. I have a throater on order from JGS, so plan to lengthen the throat, but I would not feel handicapped shooting this load for any of my planned long range matches coming up.

Hope this is helpful for someone considering the 195s and .284 Win.

Kyreloader...you should check out the "wind drift" differentials at 1000 yards for the 180 Hybrid's allowable velocities and your 195's going at 2615-27 fps. Despite the significantly higher BC listed for the 195's, a lot of .284 shooters are going to be shooting either on par or inside of you with their 180's!! At least I will. Might be worth looking in to?

Dan

 

[kyreloader]

I wanted to take a few minutes to discuss my experience with the new 195g Berger Elite Hybrids in my .284 Win F-open rifle.

I have a 30" Bartlein barrel chambered in .284 Win with a .188 freebore and 1:9 twist. I was worried about that freebore with the new long 195s so did some overall length testing. With the Hornady tool, the bullet touched the lands with an ogive measurement of 2.505". After reading a thread on here about how to measure jam, I chambered a case with the new bullet and closed the bolt. Upon measuring that case,
it measured 2.565" measured to the ogive. Now, the 2.505" measurement put the pressure ring/BT-bearing surface below the neck/shoulder junction. The 2.565" measurement was about perfect.

So I then did a pressure test through the chronograph looking for velocity and pressure at jam length starting at 52.7g and ending at 54.5g of H4831SC. The velocity was 2615-27 fps. I then shot three rounds of each load in 0.3g increments in a modified ladder test at 600 yards. There was a nice node at 54.2-54.5g shooting three shot groups between 2-2.5" at the same elevation and again no pressure signs were noted.
Settling on the load of 54.35g of H4831SC with the 195g bullet at 2.565" ogive measurement, I loaded up a jam minus test starting at jam then moving the bullet in 3 thous until jam -15 thous. The day that I wanted to shoot this load at the 600 yard range, it started raining, so was only able to shoot the jam load there again it shot in the 2" range.

I had a Palma match scheduled for this weekend, so kept the 12 I already had loaded, but loaded enough for 22 rounds keeping the rest at jam length.

Shooting the OAL test today at 800 yards for the Palma match, I was able to shoot a 199-10Xs. I did not notice a change in elevation over the test range of overall length.

I also noticed little windage, but we had good conditions this morning.

Overall, I am pleased with this bullet in my .284 Win barrel. I have a throater on order from JGS, so plan to lengthen the throat, but I would not feel handicapped shooting this load for any of my planned long range matches coming up.

Hope this is helpful for someone considering the 195s and .284 Win.

Kyreloader...you should check out the "wind drift" differentials at 1000 yards for the
180 Hybrid's allowable velocities and your 195's going at 2615-27 fps. Despite the significantly higher BC listed for the 195's, a lot of .284 shooters are going to be shooting either on par or inside of you with their 180's!! At least I will. Might be worth looking in to?

Dan

Dan,

I completely agree with you. I did the math and posted my results here (http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3883732.0), showing no windage advantages for my setup.

Thanks for picking that up and posting here.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Kyreloader...glad to hear "the rest of the story"!!

I am seating my 195's out a little further than you are. The BT base is on-line with the body/shoulder confluence. As a result, I'm experiencing a little difficulty in latching down the MTM box lid. Seriously. :-[ :-[

Here is a photo of the 195 that I staged for my team mates on Team Berger, lampooning its long length.

Dan

 

[kyreloader]

Kyreloader...glad to hear "the rest of the story"!!

I am seating my 195's out a little further than you are. The BT base is on-line with the body/shoulder confluence. As a result, I'm experiencing a little difficulty in latching down the MTM box lid. Seriously. :-[ :-[

Here is a photo of the 195 that I staged for my team mates on Team Berger, lampooning its long length.

Dan

I love it and yes they are some long suckers. I bet that got some laughs!!

 

[falconpilot]

I got a chance late last week to load up a few of the 195's in my 7 Walker. First thing first...a .270 free bore is the very min that you want to run if you want to keep the bullet above the donut area. According to my figures and measurements, I'm 20 thous above the donuts in my brass with bullet at zero...so I can only jump the bullet 20 thous and say out of donut.... if you neck turn and don't have donuts, then this isn't any issue for you.

Putting numbers into quick load, I loaded up a few rounds with 56.5grs of 4831SC, bullets just touching. AOL is 3.330. Shot them over the crony..2760-2780 fps. This is in a 30" 1-8 twist 4-grove Kreiger. I started to shoot them in the match that I shot this weekend, but decide it was too windy and I wouldn't know if it was me, the gun, the load, or the wind if it didn't shoot well, shot my Dasher instead. I just guessing here, but I figure that my brass life will be very short at these numbers. More testing will follow throughout the week.

 

[FilippoMo]

Can you please describe your 7 Walker?
Filippo

 

[falconpilot]

7Walker = 284 with 40 degree shoulders and 8 degrees taper blown out of case..it and the shehane are about one and the same as far as case capacity goes.

 

[Quinc]

Great info thank you!

 

[ShootDots]

Well I finally got my 195's last week and started some load development this week. I am running a .284 Shehane with a .300 freebore and a "straight" 1-8 / 4 groove Kreiger. I decided to start with IMR 7828SSC as I know that powder well and it has a tendency to produce unusually high velocities. So on day one, I started with 54.3grs and worked my way to 55.2. On the low side (54.3grs) I was getting right at 2700f.p.s. At the high end (55.2grs.) I was getting about 2755f.p.s. I was seating them 25K off the lands and using Wolf L/R primers. The groups were not too good and the e.s.'s were about 15-18f.p.s. spread. Not what I want. At 55.2grs the groups APPEARED to be tightening up a bit. So, I decided to go UP past the 55.2 and go to 55.4 and 55.6 and to also change primers as I did not like the H-I-G-H e.s.'s So I went with Fed 210GM's. I shot 2 / 5 shot groups at the top load on day one of 55.2, thinking the primers MAY make a difference. Then 2 / 5 shot groups with 55.4 and 1 / 5 shot group with 55.6grs.. At 55.4 the speed went up substantially, to 2800f.p.s. and at 55.6 to 2820f.p.s. There were no pressure signs at all. However, the groups ALWAYS produced a B-A-D flyer (even with the low charge weights) and no group looked "promising" to me. The Fed 210GM's got the E.S.'s under control. The e.s.'s went down to 9-11f.p.s at worst. BUT barrels being barrels, if YOUR barrel has an affinity for IMR 7828SSC, with those 195's it may be well worth a try. So, I don't know if my barrel does not like the 195's or whether it don't like 7828.

Within a few days, I will give the 195's another shot, however, this time with H1000. If I can meet my parameters of "north of 2750" with excellent E.S.'s and excellent accuracy, I will use them at our next month's 1000 yard match. I DO HOPE I can make them work! If not, I will sell the remainder of the boxes.

 

[bsumoba]

Well I finally got my 195's last week and started some load development this week. I am running a .284 Shehane with a .300 freebore and a "straight" 1-8 / 4 groove Kreiger. I decided to start with IMR 7828SSC as I know that powder well and it has a tendency to produce unusually high velocities. So on day one, I started with 54.3grs and worked my way to 55.2. On the low side (54.3grs) I was getting right at 2700f.p.s. At the high end (55.2grs.) I was getting about 2755f.p.s. I was seating them 25K off the lands and using Wolf L/R primers. The groups were not too good and the e.s.'s were about 15-18f.p.s. spread. Not what I want. At 55.2grs the groups APPEARED to be tightening up a bit. So, I decided to go UP past the 55.2 and go to 55.4 and 55.6 and to also change primers as I did not like the H-I-G-H e.s.'s So I went with Fed 210GM's. I shot 2 / 5 shot groups at the top load on day one of 55.2, thinking the primers MAY make a difference. Then 2 / 5 shot groups with 55.4 and 1 / 5 shot group with 55.6grs.. At 55.4 the speed went up substantially, to 2800f.p.s. and at 55.6 to 2820f.p.s. There were no pressure signs at all. However, the groups ALWAYS produced a B-A-D flyer (even with the low charge weights) and no group looked "promising" to me. The Fed 210GM's got the E.S.'s under control. The e.s.'s went down to 9-11f.p.s at worst. BUT barrels being barrels, if YOUR barrel has an affinity for IMR 7828SSC, with those 195's it may be well worth a try. So, I don't know if my barrel does not like the 195's or whether it don't like 7828.

Within a few days, I will give the 195's another shot, however, this time with H1000. If I can meet my parameters of "north of 2750" with excellent E.S.'s and excellent accuracy, I will use them at our next month's 1000 yard match. I DO HOPE I can make them work! If not, I will sell the remainder of the boxes.

Ben, try H4831SC or H4350. It seems these faster powders are producing better results. I would try around 50.5-52 gr for H4350 and 54-55.5 gr for H4831SC. One guy I heard, in a straight 284, is getting awesome results with H4350.

 

[ShootDots]

Well I finally got my 195's last week and started some load development this week. I am running a .284 Shehane with a .300 freebore and a "straight" 1-8 / 4 groove Kreiger. I decided to start with IMR 7828SSC as I know that powder well and it has a tendency to produce unusually high velocities. So on day one, I started with 54.3grs and worked my way to 55.2. On the low side (54.3grs) I was getting right at 2700f.p.s. At the high end (55.2grs.) I was getting about 2755f.p.s. I was seating them 25K off the lands and using Wolf L/R primers. The groups were not too good and the e.s.'s were about 15-18f.p.s. spread. Not what I want. At 55.2grs the groups APPEARED to be tightening up a bit. So, I decided to go UP past the 55.2 and go to 55.4 and 55.6 and to also change primers as I did not like the H-I-G-H e.s.'s So I went with Fed 210GM's. I shot 2 / 5 shot groups at the top load on day one of 55.2, thinking the primers MAY make a difference. Then 2 / 5 shot groups with 55.4 and 1 / 5 shot group with 55.6grs.. At 55.4 the speed went up substantially, to 2800f.p.s. and at 55.6 to 2820f.p.s. There were no pressure signs at all. However, the groups ALWAYS produced a B-A-D flyer (even with the low charge weights) and no group looked "promising" to me. The Fed 210GM's got the E.S.'s under control. The e.s.'s went down to 9-11f.p.s at worst. BUT barrels being barrels, if YOUR barrel has an affinity for IMR 7828SSC, with those 195's it may be well worth a try. So, I don't know if my barrel does not like the 195's or whether it don't like 7828.

Within a few days, I will give the 195's another shot, however, this time with H1000. If I can meet my parameters of "north of 2750" with excellent E.S.'s and excellent accuracy, I will use them at our next month's 1000 yard match. I DO HOPE I can make them work! If not, I will sell the remainder of the boxes.

Ben, try H4831SC or H4350. It seems these faster powders are producing better results. I would try around 50.5-52 gr for H4350 and 54-55.5 gr for H4831SC. One guy I heard, in a straight 284, is getting awesome results with H4350.

Thanks Bryan for the info>>> I shall give it a try... I appreciate it..

 

[effendude]

I have a hunting rifle in 284 Shehane, built specifically to use up tired match brass in hunting situations. It has a 1-9" barrel, 26" long. I loaded (5) 195's tonight to give them a try over 55 grains of H4831sc. My go to load before was 57 grains over a 180 Hybrid. In failing light, they produced a nice 1/2" group with 3 in the same hole and 2 just out with a 22X scope. Not bad for a guess load and seating depth. I will test more at longer distances as time allows but I am excited to shoot something with these bullets. Plenty good accuracy for a MN/WI deep woods rifle.
More results to follow,
Scott

 

[falconpilot]

What seating depths are you guys finding that is producing the best results? I've got from 15 jump to 15 jam and not having a lot of luck. I've tried 4831SC, 4350 and H1000. Thought I had a pretty good load based on 100 yard tests and this evening is was dead calm, so shoot that load at 600...results werer not very good.

Ben..like you, it seems that I'm getting a flier out of most groups. H1000 looks the most promising at 58 grs..going to try tweaking the seating depth and see what I get. I can tell you that 61grs of H1000 is just a little to hot:0)

What velocity node are you guys finding the bullets to like as well?

Jim

 

[ShootDots]

What seating depths are you guys finding that is producing the best results? I've got from 15 jump to 15 jam and not having a lot of luck. I've tried 4831SC, 4350 and H1000. Thought I had a pretty good load based on 100 yard tests and this evening is was dead calm, so shoot that load at 600...results werer not very good.

Ben..like you, it seems that I'm getting a flier out of most groups. H1000 looks the most promising at 58 grs..going to try tweaking the seating depth and see what I get. I can tell you that 61grs of H1000 is just a little to hot:0)

What velocity node are you guys finding the bullets to like as well?

Jim


Jim, the bullet being a "Hybrid" should allow for some latitude in seating. I am seating mine at 25K off. Tomorrow I will try the H1000 load. I did not know where to "end" in charge weights so I stopped at 57.7. The reason I did that is my Shehane with 180 Scenars shoots excellent with 57.4 and the Scenars have a L-O-N-G-E-R bearing surface than the 195's! But at 15grains additional weight, I decided to stop at 57.7... If I need to go up and I see no pressures in my barrel, I will go up to maybe 58.4.. But those nagging flyers are causing me A LOT of heartburn! I will only go so far in testing>>I may take Bryan Sumoba's advice and go try a faster powder>>>>although that goes against the grain all my years of reloading experience. But, it may be worth a shot.. But If I can't control the flyers, I will not go further than the H1000..