.284 Short action repeater question

[josh shrum]

Gents,

I am seeking input on an upcoming project. I am planning to build a new hunting rifle (Elk and smaller) using a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action I have (short action) and am trying to decide what cartridge to chamber it in.

I would like to chamber it for .284 Win but am afraid that I will lose so much performance from needing to seat the bullet so far into the case that it can fit in AI mags.

My questions are:

Is it possible to run .284 in a short action with a certain bullet (suitable for hunting of course) without sacrificing case capacity (at least to the point where the cartridge retains most of its potential)?

If .284 is not viable, what other alternatives would you suggest? (I would prefer to stick with 6.5 or 7mm cartridges, WSM and SAUM could be a possibility)

Thanks!
Masan

 

[86alaskan]

I think you'll start losing capacity with anything over 140gr. Then the bullet has to be seated down past the next junction and that's no good. If you want to go heavy then you'll lose a decent amount of space and the same loss in velocity. it's all a trade off in the short action with that round.

 

[AckleymanII]

I had nothing but regret for putting a 25/284 on a short action, longer 7mm bullets would be worse.

Now, the 7/08 AI is shorter.

ON another note, there is 6 oz difference between a long and short action.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

My thoughts would be at least a wsm if elk is possible. But a short action and noisey magazines sounds more like a tactical rifle than a hunting rifle.

 

[fredo]

The SAUMs are a 'true' short action cartridge, where the WSM just kinda works OK in one. Have a 7WSM on a SA that'll get a 162Amax hummin' 3K with no problem @ 2.915" coal. That's pretty big medicine to kill critters with. Two cases fit in the belly of a Wyatt's extended mag box, or run any AICS DBM system, and a WSM case will feed smooth as pie. The various AICS WSM magazines on the market allow for ~2.950" coal, so a bullet like the 162Amax isn't too squashed into the case. But I gave up on 180s early on, just too long to net the speed with SA constraints...

Also have a 6.5SAUM, and really, really, really like that cartridge. Push a 130HVLD @ 3200 or 140JLK @ 3070 from a 24" barrel. Those are impressive ballistics, and not pushing hard. Thanks to the shorter case, you're not infringing on capacity as with a WSM, so there's a bit more efficiency inherent to a short action SAUM. The SAUMs feed similarly well, or better, from either a Wyatts box or DBM system.

The few animals I've killed with both 130HVLD and 140JLK instilled quite a bit of confidence in their killing ability. When I cash in pref points for a rifle elk hunt, my 6.5SAUM is coming with me. Just annealed another batch of 6x fired Norma brass for my 6.5, no issues yet. Gonna be nice to have factory brass to feed that sucker, when Hornady/GAP finally release it!

No experience with the .284Win. But if choosing between WSM & SAUM, I'd be leaning toward the SAUM...

Good luck!

 

[oldroper]

Gents,

I am seeking input on an upcoming project. I am planning to build a new hunting rifle (Elk and smaller) using a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action I have (short action) and am trying to decide what cartridge to chamber it in.

I would like to chamber it for .284 Win but am afraid that I will lose so much performance from needing to seat the bullet so far into the case that it can fit in AI mags.

My questions are:

Is it possible to run .284 in a short action with a certain bullet (suitable for hunting of course) without sacrificing case capacity (at least to the point where the cartridge retains most of its potential)?

If .284 is not viable, what other alternatives would you suggest? (I would prefer to stick with 6.5 or 7mm cartridges, WSM and SAUM could be a possibility)

Thanks!
Masan

Might want to read this about 284 on short action

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

 

[josh shrum]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The 6.5 SAUM was something I had been considering as an alternative since the .284 idea looked dubious.

 

[5spd]

7-08 will take any elk w/a 139g bullet. I have had no problem yet.
I stalk & every one Ive shot was under 200 yards.

 

[DuaneinND]

I have built a couple of 284 rifles on Rem SA, they work with flat base lead tipped 140gr bullets, 120gr Barnes X etc.. Anything long or sleek the box is too short.

 

[Jaybo]

How about a 7saum on a 700 LA you can seat them out as far as you want and you get mag velocity. I've been getting 3000 + with a 180 Berger . Works great on elk and deer

 

[Brians356]

7-08 will take any elk w/a 139g bullet. I have had no problem yet.
I stalk & every one Ive shot was under 200 yards.

An uncle of mine once had heart surgery, and was advised to avoid heavy recoil thereafter. He switched to a 243 Win for elk hunting, and never lost one, but he was never taking any shots beyond 150 yards probably, and also not trophy hunting, but rather meat hunting "eatin' size" specimens. "Bullet placement."

 

[effendude]

Your bolt face will determine what cartridge choices you can make. RSAUM and WSM cartridges require a magnum bolt face. The 284 uses the std. bolt face. Depending on the face you have, it might be cheaper to sell your action and get exactly what you want.

Scott

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Single load the 284 case. If you shoot good theres no need for needing to shoot a mag full

 

[Cakes]

A good friend of mine in Montana just asked me the same question today. The .284 died a quick death back in the 60's as it was based on a short action and if not mistaken a lever model 88. You give up too much performance when you have to seat the bullets deep to make magazine limits on a short action. IMO it totally negates most of the attributes of a .284 and if stuck with a SA and mag. bolt face there are numerous saum options. Unless as Dusty stated, just load them single and make the first one count! Good Luck, Eric in DL

 

[Kings X]

I don't know about your Kelbly action, but getting the 284 case to feed can be a problem. The guiding rails on some action (Remington) hold the fat case in the box and will not let it "tip up" towards the barrel. The Remington I modified had dual grooves in the ramp which help get the bullet points heading in the right direction from either side of the box. A single ramp makes feeding even harder.
FYI - Brownells sells an extended mag box for the short actions. The Stiller Predator action uses that box - but still will not feed the 284 cases.

 

[Brians356]

FWIW: The cartridge is officially (per SAAMI) called "284 Winchester" not ".284 ...".

(Flame suit donned.)

 

[XTR]

I thought this through a couple of yrs ago. I had a 7mmRM but wanted a 7 to replace my 308 as my primary hunting rifle. I looked really hard and long at the 284Win. In the end I decided that it filled a niche that I didn't need because I already had a 7mmRM. I was looking for something to be my 90% of the time hunting rifle, and 90% of the time I'm hunting things like white tails, and they don't need the extra power or recoil and expense to hunt.

My choice is a straight 7-08 with a fluted 24" #4 1:9 tube. Shooting 140s 2900+ is easily achievable. Shoots plenty flat out to what I consider reasonable ranges (inside of 400 yards). If I had it to do over I might go with a #3 to shave a little more weight. You don't shoot for groups on deer.

I had my gunsmith relieve the port so that it will feed 2.935 OAL rounds from AICS pattern mags w/o the front plate. I know it ruins the look of a pretty hunting rifle, but I've become a real fan of pushing a button to unload and not having to jack rounds out or open the bottom metal and spill them everywhere.

My reamer has a .188 freebore that puts me at 2.835 OAL to the lands with a 140SGKs, 140 Accubonds are too long in the nose to feed. They would need right at a 3.00 OAL and I cant get there from the mag. If you wanted to shoot that bullet I'd go with about a .120 freebore in a short action.

maybe more info than you wanted but it's there.

 

[dennisinaz]

I have killed or been present on over 100 elk kills. I have used a 7-08 on several of them with good results. I have killed several hundred coyotes with a 7-08 using 110 grain TnTs. It is plenty of cartridge out to about 500-600 yards.

I have have/have had several 260/ 260AIs as well. Killed about 5 elk with the 260 Remington. Worked fine, not as much range as the 7-08 though. I think if you want a repeater, you will be hard pressed to better the 7-08 in a short action. You can use up to 154 Hornadys which are an excellent elk bullet. IF you are wanting to shoot 168 and 180 VLDs you will not be able to use the magazine without severely compromising the case capacity.

I have a number of 6.5-284s and they are on long actions. 284 is the same story.

IF you really want to use the VLD type bullets, I would go with the 6.5 Creedmoor where you can seat them out a little longer. Ditto for the 6.5x47 Lapua.

I am building a 6x47Lapua as an intermediate caliber.

Good luck.

 

[CJ6]

Single load the 284 case. If you shoot good theres no need for needing to shoot a mag full

^^^^^

 

[msalm]

A Win 70 CRF short action is what you want for this. Put a WSM mag box, follower, and ejector in it and you have a 3.050" OAL and it feeds very well. Worked well for me anyway.