.257 Roberts Ackley Improved

[Romulus]

When sierra stops making them or blackjack decides to stop messing with them itll be like the norma dasher. Hope thats not going to happen but theres always the chance

Sometime back I believe I read something about BJ hoping Sierra would buy them out. I hope I'm not starting a rumor but, I'm almost sure that's what I read.

Glad to see the cogs turning for high performance 25 Cal!

We just got back from the Nightforce ELR Challenge (this fifth iteration was held at a new venue and we battled 18-35+ MPH winds). Logan earned 3rd Place in Hunter Division placing 19th overall with 25 SAUM and I earned 16th Place overall in combined Open/Hunter Division out of 191 competitors that posted scores (236 signed up for the match). It's the best match of the year and was glad to see 3 257s place so well amongst much larger weaponry on targets from 700-2200 yards. Logan and I rarely compete and ended up as the top 2 257 shooters, and the 3rd highest 257 shooter just worked up a load the week of the match. This shooter earned the $2570 check we offer to Top 257 shooter every year at this match.

Please go check out our Blackjack Bullets facebook page for all the pictures.

Anyhow, we aren't selling the company. We haven't completed all of what we set out to do.

- Show the shooting community what properly designed 257 can do (outperform 6 at long range and outperform 6.5 for over 2000 yards). The shooting community is increasingly aware of this.
- Inspire other major MFGs to throw their hat in the ring and compete in the high performance 257 arena. Berger has unofficially announced they will be offering a high performance 25 cal bullet soon. Out of respect I will not offer any information other than that which they offer publicly. I am very glad they are joining in on the fun which will make the later goals happen.
- Inspire rifle builders to update barrel twist conventions from 1:10 or slower to 1:7 for non-magnums and 1:7.5 for standard magnums. These discussions are taking place and Berger joining in will help the dominoes fall. The performance advantage over 6.5mm is there so it is basically an eventuality.
- Release 2 more high performance 257 offerings to maximize medium range hunting and long range target shooting. The 131 ACE is a very well balanced offering for both medium and long range but we will expand the lineup as the years go by.
- Release the 257 Blackjack Cartridge - This is a confirmed reality that will be happening in the second half of 2020. You could say 2021 is the year of the Blackjack Cartridge. 3200 fps from 24" with a 0.340 G7 in a a short action rifle. Balanced performance for certain matches and nearly anything you need to do with a lightweight mountain rifle. The brass will be top quality and the dies will be at various price points to help hunters to high end competitors enjoy the offering.
- If we ever sell out, I will stay on some 3-5 year retainer to make sure Blackjack keeps the main core of what we have tried to do. Transparency and focus on balanced performance.

We have received quite a few calls from industry personnel expressing the same sentiment - they are signing up to collaborate with BJB because they "believe in our design goals" and the future of 257. I cannot divulge all the details but the projects will be very apparent soon enough.

Thanks,

MJ

 

[nmkid]

Thanks for dispelling what I thought I had read. Man, 257 Blackjack Cartridge! I don't need another rifle...Do I??

 

[Dessert]

Since we’re talking about .25’s, if I had to have just ONE rifle, it would be the .25-06, it will do it all and then some. Rock chucks to elk, ask me how I know.

 

[Brians356]

Man, 257 Blackjack Cartridge! I don't need another rifle...Do I??

Naw, just a new barrel.

I really like the name "257 Blackjack".
-

 

[sapper299]

I have a .257 AI and it shoots the 117 SST and the old 120 gr Partition bullets like a laser and has taken more deer than any of my other rifles. I was thinking on chambering a barrel for my 700LA in that caliber and going with a 1-7 twist barrel for the 131 BlackJack bullets for F class. The recoil is low and from what I have seen from the PRS guys shooting the 25CM, those bullets are great.

 

[Romulus]

Since we’re talking about .25’s, if I had to have just ONE rifle, it would be the .25-06, it will do it all and then some. Rock chucks to elk, ask me how I know.

I agree. I built a 25-06 test rifle and didn't think I would enjoy it very much.

Well, it's my favorite rifle now. Sure the geometry has "flaws" but it works like the dickens! 3170-3215 fps is all I need for anything.

 

[VaRandy]

Currently have a .257 Roberts on a Remington action. The barrel is about done in and I would like to have it re barreled. I like the idea of an Ackley because it's not common. That may be what is getting me into trouble! My gunsmith does not have the reamer, only a standard one. I can either buy the reamer, 8 week waiting period, or split it with him and he keeps the reamer. I have a nice set of Forster bench rest dies that I would have to replace. Do not know if you can just buy the sliding tube in the seating die or if you can just use it. Does it fit the case that precisely? Loading dies are a bit pricey and no one has them in stock.

Not trying to ask is the Ackley worth it from a velocity standpoint. That has been hashed around before. And no, I do not think the .25/06 is sexy enough. I know there are other Ackley nuts out there. A few of my shooting friends think I am nuts but it just sounds "cool."

Has anyone out there built an Ackley or wish they hadn't?

Don't limit your choices to what reamer your Smith has. Put on a heavier barrel and chamber it to shoot the revolutionary 131 Blackjack and then you will not pine for your old Roberts.

 

[Robert Weidler]

I have long wanted a good LR quarter bore and after hearing about the 131 Blackjack I was sold. I am currently building a 25 cal long range bench rifle around the 131 BJ and the 6XC. Big Horn Origin action, 26" Bartlein heavy palma 7 1/2 twist, KRG Bravo chassis with a Rifle Basix trigger and Athlon 10-40 scope. I really like the load development I have worked up using QuickLOAD and am excited to get the gun in hand. I had the reamer made by JGS with only one change to the 6XC parent case and that was a 35 degree shoulder. Sadly, once I get the rifle and fire some hand made loads for Whidden it will be another four months for the dies. Looks like this will be my Christmas present to myself.

 

[real cowman]

I am thinking about a new barrel. Anyone have real world velocity data for the 131 blacjacks in 257 ackley improved?

 

[SeabeeKen]

I’ve built a 257ai on an old Mexican 7x57 and a 7x57ai on a Ruger 77 action. Both are awesome rifles. The 257 is amazingly accurate with reloder 16 and 26 and Barnes 100 TSX, shooting .2 @ 3200 FPS and under .1 @ 3350 FPS respectively. A Hart barrel on mauser 98 action 10 twist. Hard to make it shoot bad. Dies are easily had and fun to form while breaking in the barrel. For the target shooters, once vld bullets like the bj become more common, I think the 6.5 will feel it. Mine has taken many deer and is my favorite hunting rifle.

 

[SweaterDood]

I agree. I built a 25-06 test rifle and didn't think I would enjoy it very much.

Well, it's my favorite rifle now. Sure the geometry has "flaws" but it works like the dickens! 3170-3215 fps is all I need for anything.

Do you have good starting loads to work from with the 131gr Ace in the 25-06?

Just finished a 25-06AI on a Savage with a 26” Shilen Select Ratchet 4groove, 1-7t. Thinking 7797 and H100V could prove to be nice fits. Also have some 4350 lying around.

Also I am in the middle of a .257AI Build on a Defiance XM length action. Reamer specced with Dave Manson to run 3.150” for .020” jump (131gr) and 1.5deg leade angle. Hoping to find a good place to start on this load as well, but I will have significantly more case capacity than standard, even with the BJ131. Really curious about H100V in this cartridge.

 

[SweaterDood]

Do you have good starting loads to work from with the 131gr Ace in the 25-06?

Just finished a 25-06AI on a Savage with a 26” Shilen Select Ratchet 4groove, 1-7t. Thinking 7797 and H100V could prove to be nice fits. Also have some 4350 lying around.

Also I am in the middle of a .257AI Build on a Defiance XM length action. Reamer specced with Dave Manson to run 3.150” for .020” jump (131gr) and 1.5deg leade angle. Hoping to find a good place to start on this load as well, but I will have significantly more case capacity than standard, even with the BJ131. Really curious about H100V in this cartridge.

build complete. Did some fireforming today but no loads worked up yet. Soon...

 

[farmerjohn]

Have owned 257s in one form or another since the 50s. My pick is the 25-284, more speed and sexier. Second choice is the 257AI. Am thinking very seriously about building another 25-284 with one of the new actions from Kelby or Bat with an 8 twist in a magazine type rifle... John

 

[long40shot]

I had a 257ai put together last year. I used 87grn sierras to fire form, that shot great. I've been running the hornady 110 eld-x., i must say, i am very impressed.

 

[cinch29433]

I have a .25 Souper Improved that was in a PS article back in the 90's that is still wonderfully accurate with 85's and 110's. Since obtaining it I have several others that I have caused to become a reality.

They are instant death to game and varmints. 47 grains of H4350 will have one clicking up 8 moa at 600 yards and 26.5 moa at 1000 using 110's. I just had to have my own reamer to go with the dies, brass etc that I got along with the original rifle.

Recoil is very manageable and my wife who is a crack shot at silhouettes used one of these to take her Bighorn and punish steel at the range. Works great in a SA 700, Bat vr or Borden Alpine.

.25 Ackley's are cool.

 

[jplahr]

Stopped at Scheels today and was in the reloading section looking at the powder I asked if they had any RL16 or RL19 he said he would check. He came back with a pound of each. RL17 has been great in my 257 Ackley going to try RL16 and see if it has the same speed as RL17.

 

[std7mag]

I didn't care for RL16 in my 7mm-08AI.
Too bulky.
Might be a different story with the increased case capacity of the 257AI.

Well, thanks to Cemetery21, i'm soon looking at 257 Roberts AI build on a Savage 110.
Looking forward to the 115gr Berger, and any other offerings that may come out.

 

[SweaterDood]

build complete. Did some fireforming today but no loads worked up yet. Soon...

So I ended up trying IMR 7977 and Norma MRP:
Seems like 7977 is a bit too slow for the cartridge with standard primers. Maybe magnum primers will give a little velocity boost since I am nowhere near max pressure.
Norma MRP has given impressive velocities, even below pressure. Running well over 3100 with the BJ131s. Even got up over 3200 with ejector marks. Need to play with neck tension a little bit, but happy with the MRP performance.
Didnt get around to playing with the H100V, and honestly not sure if I will at this point since the MRP does exactly what I want.

 

[284winner]

I didn't care for RL16 in my 7mm-08AI.
Too bulky.
Might be a different story with the increased case capacity of the 257AI.

Well, thanks to Cemetery21, i'm soon looking at 257 Roberts AI build on a Savage 110.
Looking forward to the 115gr Berger, and any other offerings that may come out.

Hard to beat RL26. Very dense unlike RL17.

 

[std7mag]

Hard to beat RL26. Very sense unlike RL17.

???
What's "very sense"? Lol

Sweaterdood,

I got some Norma MRP to play with in my 284 Win. Had to go 100 miles to find some, and that was before the current shortages.
Then someone tells me it's the same as RL22.

To keep with the 257AI thread..
Still waiting on USPS to deliver my barrel. Was supposed to be here 12/8.
I saw news report that aside from their warehouses being full, there are tractor trailers still loaded waiting to be processed. 10 trailers & growing at the Philly facility.

I found a Savage 111 in 270 Win on closeout that i put on lay-a-way. First Savage i'll have bought that has a 3 position safety & AccuTrigger.

Plan is to ream chamber to 257 Roberts AI, and Boyds stock. Trying to keep weight down.

Happy holidays to everyone!