I think in all these debates, the bullet has a lot to do with it. There is no logical reason why a 25-06 with 120gr at 3100fps should kill should produce a 'bang-flop' kill while the same shot with a 7mm Mag using 140/160gr at 3100fps would result in a deer running 75-150 yards assuming the same shot placement and a deer that is not already 'on alert'. Except that the bullet from the 7mm probably expands less readily and is designed to also cope with tougher game like elk, perhaps? With all the endless articles about controlled expansion premium wonder bullets, I think that for the average deer, it is easy to end up using a bullet that is too hard. I think that is why the .25-06 and .270 are very effective deer cartridges, but at the cost of a fair amount of meat damage, which is why may people prefer a slower round like the 7mm-08 or .30-06 with bullets appropriate for expanding in deer at the lower speed.
25-06, what makes it so good?
- Thread starter Kenny474
- Start date
It is the hydrolic shock.Speed and the right bullet design,weather it is a 20cal or 30cal,and everytthing in-between,will have the same effect.No exit hole is a good indication of bullet performance on a given animal,provided the remains of the bullet are found on the far side,under the skin.The inards are just jelly, in that case.Still need bullet placement.
I too agree with the proper bullet put in the proper place. The bullets for 25 cal seem to really work great in deer size game in everything from a 250 Savage up to 25-06.
Proper bullets for the drop them in their tracks ability for me have been.
.257 117 Sierra Pro Hunter
.264 120 Sierra PH, 120 Nos. BT under 3100 fps. @ 3350 fps in my 264 Win mag is the 130 Nos. Accubond
.277 130 Sierra Game King, 130 Nos. BT
.308 125 Nos BT just keep it under 3100 fps and it really drops them.
Proper bullets for the drop them in their tracks ability for me have been.
.257 117 Sierra Pro Hunter
.264 120 Sierra PH, 120 Nos. BT under 3100 fps. @ 3350 fps in my 264 Win mag is the 130 Nos. Accubond
.277 130 Sierra Game King, 130 Nos. BT
.308 125 Nos BT just keep it under 3100 fps and it really drops them.
I will say bullet construction may have more to do with it than some of the other factors. I have had many bang flop kills when using 150-180gr Nosler BT's, usually 180's as it's my normal load. But I do seem to have less effective results when using a tougher bullet, like an Accu-Bond or Partition. I think it's possible to go too soft as well, such as the A-Max, as it has done excessive damage in my experience, though I used a 208gr A-Max from a 30-06 on deer.
But still, I have seen far more very fast kills from the .25cals than I have any other round of similar size up to .30 cal. They just work. You can't shoot one in the arse and have it die, and yes shot placement does still matter. But it has always been my experience that a .25 will produce an almost immediate fall of the animal if you put the bullet anywhere near the generally accepted "vital area".
And please don't take this out of context. I am not saying it's the "best" deer round, or that others can not be effective. Only that in my nearly 16 years of hunting and seeing others use .25cals that they have produced many very fast kills. Others here have many more years in the woods than I, and I understand that as well. But even still, many have also seen the same thing from the 25-06 that I have, a round that just does an exceptional job of taking deer size game.
There will always be the guy who uses one and can't shoot, and no it won't make you a better hunter or kill more deer with bad shot placement than any other round. But if you can shoot well, the 25-06 will very rarely leave you disappointed. And more often than not, it will leave you wondering how it made the deer fall so fast.
And just to be clear, I am writing this as a staunch supporter of the big bore rounds. I do not use a 25-06, or anything even close in size on deer. I use a 30-06, a .35 Whelen, a 45/70, a .500S&W and a .50 cal BP muzzle loader, as well as a 20ga slug gun. So I am not writing this as it's my "favorite round" or that I even use one, because I don't.
I write this after watching several others use them and seeing the proof with my own eyes that they do the job of taking deer very well. I don't understand why, because I feel my big bores should do better, but they don't. At least not until I get to the 45/70, and then I am limited in range.
I do have high hopes for my Whelen, and as I have only used it once with great results, I am optimistic that it will be my "bang flop" round. The tried and true 30-06 does do very well, but I always strive for better, hence my going bigger. I don't want to "give in" to my father's nagging that the .25cal. is better, but I do want to show him there are other rounds that will drop deer just as fast as a .25.
I hope my .35 Whelen proves to be even faster.
Kenny
Maybe since it's a semi-auto I can slip in a second round really fast without anyone noticing, just to be sure. ;D
But still, I have seen far more very fast kills from the .25cals than I have any other round of similar size up to .30 cal. They just work. You can't shoot one in the arse and have it die, and yes shot placement does still matter. But it has always been my experience that a .25 will produce an almost immediate fall of the animal if you put the bullet anywhere near the generally accepted "vital area".
And please don't take this out of context. I am not saying it's the "best" deer round, or that others can not be effective. Only that in my nearly 16 years of hunting and seeing others use .25cals that they have produced many very fast kills. Others here have many more years in the woods than I, and I understand that as well. But even still, many have also seen the same thing from the 25-06 that I have, a round that just does an exceptional job of taking deer size game.
There will always be the guy who uses one and can't shoot, and no it won't make you a better hunter or kill more deer with bad shot placement than any other round. But if you can shoot well, the 25-06 will very rarely leave you disappointed. And more often than not, it will leave you wondering how it made the deer fall so fast.
And just to be clear, I am writing this as a staunch supporter of the big bore rounds. I do not use a 25-06, or anything even close in size on deer. I use a 30-06, a .35 Whelen, a 45/70, a .500S&W and a .50 cal BP muzzle loader, as well as a 20ga slug gun. So I am not writing this as it's my "favorite round" or that I even use one, because I don't.
I write this after watching several others use them and seeing the proof with my own eyes that they do the job of taking deer very well. I don't understand why, because I feel my big bores should do better, but they don't. At least not until I get to the 45/70, and then I am limited in range.
I do have high hopes for my Whelen, and as I have only used it once with great results, I am optimistic that it will be my "bang flop" round. The tried and true 30-06 does do very well, but I always strive for better, hence my going bigger. I don't want to "give in" to my father's nagging that the .25cal. is better, but I do want to show him there are other rounds that will drop deer just as fast as a .25.
I hope my .35 Whelen proves to be even faster.
Kenny
Maybe since it's a semi-auto I can slip in a second round really fast without anyone noticing, just to be sure. ;D
This thread is a great read! I own a 25-06, and a host of other calibers. I will admit right up front that I've never shot a WT deer in my life, only muley's. A few have been taken with the 25-06 but most have been taken with my old 270. I've watched muley's drop from single 223 rem shots on up to 30-378 wby multiple shots. I don't see anything magical at all about the 25-06. I currently load 115 gr Bergers in mine and it puts deer in the dirt very well but no better than a 95 in a 243, 130 or 140 in a 6.5 Swede or 6.5-284, 140 in a 270, 155 in an '06, 168 in a 7 mag, or 168 or 185 in a host of 300 mags. If I had to say I own one magical rifle it would have to be my Tikka 6.5 Swede. It is scary accurate for a factory rifle and truly dispatches deer sized game in out of this world fashion! It does for me what the 25-06 does for you. I can't explain it nor will I try. I will say that my son took a cow elk with the Swede this year with a single 130 VLD at 420 yards and the results were amazing! Had I carried a video camera and posted the footage most would think she was shot with a 338 mag or something of that likes. I like the 25-06 but similar to others have to say that I have heard many speak of other cartridges just as you speak of the 25. My uncle will go toes with anyone who says his 270 weatherby won't kill as well as a 155 howitzer. I'd have a hard time not sticking up for my Swede. To each his own and when you figure out your magic with the 25 send some my way so I can shake a little on mine if you will. 
Zac M.
Zac M.jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Come on guys now it is time to hammer the swede just because I own one too.It is bullet and placement and whatever caliber that doesnt make you flinch as much.
You won't hear anything but good things from me regarding the 25 Otter. I just flat out love mine. In fact, I'm in the middle of gathering the parts for a build. It is to be my "go to" rifle for the next 20 or so years. I had to think long and hard about the chambering. I swayed back and forth between the 25/06 and the 284 Winchester. The 284 won out only because I already have a family heirloom 25/06 that just plain shoots! I regularly win or place in the local 400yd deer target shoots. Kills our relatively husky PA whitetails like the rug was just pulled out from under them. It is an easy round to load for. Recoil is a non-issue. Out to 300 yds an 8" vital is a no brainer. Dial it in 2" high at 100yds and you're only down 5" @ 300. With the 110gr Accubond. How can you not fall in love with something like that. Are there other newer rounds with the same attributes? Sure there are. But try as they might. The old Quarter Otter just won't go away.
So in light of this thread, I pulled an old rifle out that has been in my family for some 30+ years without ever being fired, went through it, checked headspace etc. Basically made sure it was safe to fire and then attached 3-9X Bushnell and bore sighted that as well. The rifle is a K98 Mauser that has been sporterized and rebarreled in 25-06 many years ago, bought by my uncle and never fired. The stock was UGLY, as the inletting was horrible and the barrel channel looked like it was cut with a chainsaw by a drunk, so I cleaned it up and bedded the action as well as filled the barrel channel as best I could with AcraGlas dyed to match the stock. I also gave the barrel and action a thorough cleaning.
So after I had brought this old relic back to a "shootable state", it was time to bring her to the range and see what it could do. So with boxes of 90gr Prvi Partizan, 120gr Fusion and 100gr and 120gr Remington Core Lokt, I was off to the range. I used about 10 Prvi rounds to get centered well at 100yds, and proceeded to see how this old girl would shoot with some factory ammo. Turns out that it's not all that bad, all things considered. I was able to get 1.25", or just under, 5 shot groups at 100yds with the Fusion and 120gr Core Lokt, and the 100gr Core Lokt was around 1.5" and the Prvi was about 1.5" as well, maybe just a bit over. I did have my last group with the Fusion right at 1", but since it wasn't consistent for all 4 groups, I passed it off as a fluke.
But now I have my own quarter bore that actually shoots, instead of just taking up space in my safe. And it's accurate enough that I would feel comfortable taking it into the woods for deer anytime. If I was to handload for it, I may even be able to get MOA from it. But I am not optimistic. It's an old surplus action in a butchered stock with a barrel of unknown origin fitted to it. I figure that it will even hit the middle of the paper is an accomplishment. I did grab a Lee deluxe die set today, with collet and FL dies, as well as 50 pieces of Winchester brass. But only so I don't have to spend so much on factory ammo, as I do want to shoot it a bit more before I trust it in the woods.
So there you have it, this talk of the 25-06 has given me the urge to clean up an old war horse turned sporter that has sat untouched for 30+ years, and has now been brought back to life and is planned to serve a tour of duty in the coyote fields as soon as I am sure it's reliable. It may see deer duty next year, but that's a long ways away.
My Dad has been ribbing me hard though, as I finally gave in to the quarter bore.
I know it won't perform any magic in the woods, as no rifle will. But if the 25-06 is as good on coyote as it is on deer, it will be worth the $75 I spent to get this old girl going again. And if it does really good by me, I might even spring for a new stock at some point.
Kenny
So after I had brought this old relic back to a "shootable state", it was time to bring her to the range and see what it could do. So with boxes of 90gr Prvi Partizan, 120gr Fusion and 100gr and 120gr Remington Core Lokt, I was off to the range. I used about 10 Prvi rounds to get centered well at 100yds, and proceeded to see how this old girl would shoot with some factory ammo. Turns out that it's not all that bad, all things considered. I was able to get 1.25", or just under, 5 shot groups at 100yds with the Fusion and 120gr Core Lokt, and the 100gr Core Lokt was around 1.5" and the Prvi was about 1.5" as well, maybe just a bit over. I did have my last group with the Fusion right at 1", but since it wasn't consistent for all 4 groups, I passed it off as a fluke.
But now I have my own quarter bore that actually shoots, instead of just taking up space in my safe. And it's accurate enough that I would feel comfortable taking it into the woods for deer anytime. If I was to handload for it, I may even be able to get MOA from it. But I am not optimistic. It's an old surplus action in a butchered stock with a barrel of unknown origin fitted to it. I figure that it will even hit the middle of the paper is an accomplishment. I did grab a Lee deluxe die set today, with collet and FL dies, as well as 50 pieces of Winchester brass. But only so I don't have to spend so much on factory ammo, as I do want to shoot it a bit more before I trust it in the woods.
So there you have it, this talk of the 25-06 has given me the urge to clean up an old war horse turned sporter that has sat untouched for 30+ years, and has now been brought back to life and is planned to serve a tour of duty in the coyote fields as soon as I am sure it's reliable. It may see deer duty next year, but that's a long ways away.
My Dad has been ribbing me hard though, as I finally gave in to the quarter bore.
I know it won't perform any magic in the woods, as no rifle will. But if the 25-06 is as good on coyote as it is on deer, it will be worth the $75 I spent to get this old girl going again.
And if it does really good by me, I might even spring for a new stock at some point.Kenny
Kenny,
My 25-06 is a Savage 111 with an accutrigger that I bought for $200 from a guy who was hurting for money. That's the only reason I bought it, not because I was a huge fan of the 25 but more just curious. My friends father has toted his 25-06 to Alaska after caribou and black bear and swears it'll take anything a 300 mag will as long as it's inside 300 yards. I have little experience (relatively speaking) with the 25-06 and maybe some day I'll really fall in love with it. It shoots under an inch with almost anything I put through it as long as it's DIRTY and FOULED. If I clean it to bare metal it takes over 10 rounds to get her shooting very good again. It really likes the Nosler 85 gr BT's over a max charge of Varget and will group around a half inch almost any day of the week with them. They sure tear up those dogs good! Anyways, glad to hear that you've got one to play with and I hope you enjoy it to the fullest! Good shooting, Zac.
My 25-06 is a Savage 111 with an accutrigger that I bought for $200 from a guy who was hurting for money. That's the only reason I bought it, not because I was a huge fan of the 25 but more just curious. My friends father has toted his 25-06 to Alaska after caribou and black bear and swears it'll take anything a 300 mag will as long as it's inside 300 yards. I have little experience (relatively speaking) with the 25-06 and maybe some day I'll really fall in love with it. It shoots under an inch with almost anything I put through it as long as it's DIRTY and FOULED. If I clean it to bare metal it takes over 10 rounds to get her shooting very good again. It really likes the Nosler 85 gr BT's over a max charge of Varget and will group around a half inch almost any day of the week with them. They sure tear up those dogs good! Anyways, glad to hear that you've got one to play with and I hope you enjoy it to the fullest! Good shooting, Zac.
Zac,
that's a smokin deal you got on that Savage! $200 for most any Savage is a good deal any day.
I do like this old Mauser a bit, and I have really been considering ordering a stock for it. It's just a shame to have it in this turd of wood shaped like a stock, as I love Mausers and I hate to see the one I have look like it does.
I have seen a number of very nice looking wood sporter stocks for Mausers on E-Bay, but I am scared to buy one there. I worry that I would buy what looks to be a beautiful piece of wood, only to have a different stock show up that isn't nearly as nice. But some are honestly just gorgeous pieces of wood for short money. Really makes me think about it.
Kenny
that's a smokin deal you got on that Savage! $200 for most any Savage is a good deal any day.
I do like this old Mauser a bit, and I have really been considering ordering a stock for it. It's just a shame to have it in this turd of wood shaped like a stock, as I love Mausers and I hate to see the one I have look like it does.
I have seen a number of very nice looking wood sporter stocks for Mausers on E-Bay, but I am scared to buy one there. I worry that I would buy what looks to be a beautiful piece of wood, only to have a different stock show up that isn't nearly as nice. But some are honestly just gorgeous pieces of wood for short money. Really makes me think about it.
Kenny
I've owned a Remington 700 Varmint Special in .25-06 since 1978. It was my first center fire rifle and my only center fire rifle for 20 years.
I wouldn't trade this cartridge for anything. You don't hear of anyone offering the .25-06 in a heavy barrel anymore and you don't see ammo offered in less then 100 gr projectiles often.
The cartridge is really versatile. I've used mine for ground hog hunting for 30 + years. With an 87 gr bullet it is the hardest hitting of any varmint cartridge. My rifle is topped with a Leupold M8 24x scope, if I can see a ground hog it's in mortal danger no matter how far.
Have also used it for deer hunting using the heavier bullets. Heck, it went bear hunting in Canada with me at one time. Everyone should own a .25-06 in my opinion.
About 3 years ago I had it checked by a gunsmith because it started to get fliers. The rifle on my Remington was on it's last legs. I looked at the cost of rebarreling and decided on a Krieger match. But now I could change the caliber to something else if I wanted. Which caliber should I get the new barrel in? I thought on this for about 1 second. After 30 years the choice was really easy, .25-06 Rem.
I wouldn't trade this cartridge for anything. You don't hear of anyone offering the .25-06 in a heavy barrel anymore and you don't see ammo offered in less then 100 gr projectiles often.
The cartridge is really versatile. I've used mine for ground hog hunting for 30 + years. With an 87 gr bullet it is the hardest hitting of any varmint cartridge. My rifle is topped with a Leupold M8 24x scope, if I can see a ground hog it's in mortal danger no matter how far.
Have also used it for deer hunting using the heavier bullets. Heck, it went bear hunting in Canada with me at one time. Everyone should own a .25-06 in my opinion.
About 3 years ago I had it checked by a gunsmith because it started to get fliers. The rifle on my Remington was on it's last legs. I looked at the cost of rebarreling and decided on a Krieger match. But now I could change the caliber to something else if I wanted. Which caliber should I get the new barrel in? I thought on this for about 1 second. After 30 years the choice was really easy, .25-06 Rem.
Thanks for the welcome Wayne.bozo699 said:
The first time out with the new Krieger the rifle shot about 1" groups. The bullet was a 100 gr Sierra with a load that shot quite well out of the old barrel. I was unimpressed and put the rifle back in the safe where it sat for a year. Just didn't seem to perform as I was promised.
This past season I took it out of the safe for a second time and tried the 87 gr Sierra bullet and RL19. On this session the rifle easily shot 1/2", I could hardly believe the target. The gun never shot shot that good in all the years I owned it.
So far I have 40 rounds through the new Krieger. Don't know what it didn't like about the 100 gr bullet but it sure does like the 87 gr.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Joe,
Thats good news, you may find after another 100-150 rounds down the tube it shoots even better. Then if you took the time to work up a custom load for the rifle it might be scary how well it could shoot Tho it shoots plenty good enough now for the type of shooting you said you were doing with it, varmints can't tell the difference if you hit them in the right or left eyeball 
Wayne.
Thats good news, you may find after another 100-150 rounds down the tube it shoots even better. Then if you took the time to work up a custom load for the rifle it might be scary how well it could shoot
Tho it shoots plenty good enough now for the type of shooting you said you were doing with it, varmints can't tell the difference if you hit them in the right or left eyeball Wayne.
bozo699 said:Joe,
Thats good news, you may find after another 100-150 rounds down the tube it shoots even better. Then if you took the time to work up a custom load for the rifle it might be scary how well it could shoot
Wayne.
I'm hoping it likes IMR4350 as I bought 8 lbs of it just before the old barrel died. This powder was what I used for years and years. The gun didn't like 4350 with the 100 gr bullet, time will tell. The second outing was my first time for using RL19 and I was happy with how well it worked.
IMR4831 is the one powder I've never been able to get. I've used H4831 with the heavy bullets and have had really good luck with IMR4350 with the 87 gr bullets. Used to use IMR4064 with the 75 gr bullets. The 75's were accurate but just could be relied on for clean kills on ground hogs past 300 yards.bozo699 said:
Now all of a sudden the gun no longer likes 4350. I'll fool with it some more and maybe it's something simple like the seating depth.
I've noticed the Krieger seems to be shorter throated then the original barrel.
I have to agree that there seems to be something about 25-06's killing ability. I have tried many different rifle calibers maintaning deer populations on some ranches around home. I tried light bullet to caliber combos, heavy bullet to caliber combs and nothing seems to preform like the 25 -06. I use 100 sierra bullets and most animals are found at the same place where shot.
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
This old topic got me interested and I took my 25-06 to Georgia this week. Modified Remington Sendaro that shoots moly 115 Nosler BT's in .5's. I used it for years on groundhogs in Pa. and shoot 600 yard gongs with it.
Hunt deer with it? Well let me just say I dialed down the scope to it's lowest, 6 power. Watched closely at about 130 yards and put a large doe into a perfect, gymnastic back flip.
The darn thing went completly up and over. Landed on it's back with 4 feet in the air and only a slight shake from one hind leg. Man I wanted a video camera.
It was facing me at a slight quarter. Bullet went in between the shoulder and body, traveled through the liver and ended up stopped by the last rib before the hindquarter.
WOW! Thanks for the idea.
Hunt deer with it? Well let me just say I dialed down the scope to it's lowest, 6 power. Watched closely at about 130 yards and put a large doe into a perfect, gymnastic back flip.
The darn thing went completly up and over. Landed on it's back with 4 feet in the air and only a slight shake from one hind leg. Man I wanted a video camera.
It was facing me at a slight quarter. Bullet went in between the shoulder and body, traveled through the liver and ended up stopped by the last rib before the hindquarter.
WOW! Thanks for the idea.
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