22rf "trainers' ...what do they really train?

[garandman]

Or is that just BS we feed ourselves to gin up an excuse to buy another gun?

We call them "trainers" as if they help train for CF guns.

They don't train recoil mgmt... there is none.

They don't train trajectory / ballistics. The 22 rf bullet is a blunt instrument with a low BC and a hyper exaggerated trajectory.

They don't train reading wind as there is no correspondence between a 40 gr low BC bullet going 1050fps and a high BC 140 gr bullet going 2700 fps

Trigger control and follow thru could be trained on our actual CF guns.

What an I missing? What do 22 rf trainers actually train? Our wallets / CC mgmt techniques?

 

[1Merlin]

Dude you are harshing my mellow.

 

[gme]

I'm guessing you're not a sling shooter?

 

[garandman]

I'm guessing you're not a sling shooter?

I am guilty of that.

Or...maybe I should say.... am I not guilty of that...?

Not sure, really.... anyway, no, I dont' shoot sling.

 

[gme]

I am guilty of that.

Or...maybe I should say.... am I not guilty of that...?

Not sure, really.... anyway, no, I dont' shoot sling.

so rimfire is a very good training too for sling shooters because the rimfire rifle demands a great deal from your position, what you can get away with from a CF rifle will never fly with a RF rifle.

 

[garandman]

so rimfire is a very good training too for sling shooters because the rimfire rifle demands a great deal from your position, what you can get away with from a CF rifle will never fly with a RF rifle.

Yeah....I missed that. What's your CF rifle / competition and what 22 rf do you train with?

 

[B23]

I'm an absolute believer in, it's your money do/buy whatever you want, but for me, I can't say that I really see the point of the 22LR versions of some of these just to shoot paper at 50 yards. Yes, I understand they do more than shoot paper at 50 yards with these things, but again, for me, I don't see them have a lot of value for anything I'd want one for.

Now, a 17 WSM or maybe even 17 HMR version, for me and the type of use I'd want one for, is something I'd be interested in, but my biggest concern, is any of the current 17 WSM or 17 HMR ammo good enough for such a high end build.

I asked a similar-ish question a few days ago and like in the post, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or piss in anyone's cheerios. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.

 

[USMCDOC]

so rimfire is a very good training too for sling shooters because the rimfire rifle demands a great deal from your position, what you can get away with from a CF rifle will never fly with a RF rifle.

Hey Gary.. hope that you are doing well!

Randy

 

[garandman]

I'm an absolute believer in, it's your money do/buy whatever you want, but for me, I can't say that I really see the point of the 22LR versions of some of these just to shoot paper at 50 yards. Yes, I understand they do more than shoot paper at 50 yards with these things, but again, for me, I don't see them have a lot of value for anything I'd want one for.

Now, a 17 WSM or maybe even 17 HMR version, for me and the type of use I'd want one for, is something I'd be interested in, but my biggest concern, is any of the current 17 WSM or 17 HMR ammo good enough for such a high end build.

I asked a similar-ish question a few days ago and like in the post, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or piss in anyone's cheerios. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.

I compete with my Vudoo at 50 , and regularly beat Anschutz / Coopers / 40x / Sakes / Brnos etc. So I have a lot of fun with my 22 rf paper puncher.

Thnking about converting it into a 200 - 400 yard steel plate gun.

So yeah.... get whatever gun ya want for whatever reason, but I'm not seeing much "training" value in a 22rf copy of a CF rifle.

 

[Mark Self]

I wrote a whole story of training solely with a 22lr rifle about 2 1/2 years ago. I started shooting PRS in Dec 2017. I took a week long class with Jacob from Rifles Only, best class you could ever have as new shooter. Ok back to training, I heard all the BS about wind, recoil, weight. You name it I heard it. Well There was these crazy guys in Utah I started talking to before 2018 shot and ordered there gun. "Vudoo" So now I have a 22lr in the same MPA chassis that my 6XC match rifle had. I was devoted in practicing 1/2 dots at 50 yards on all the props we could build, rooftops, tank traps any crazy thing we saw, my buddy and built it. So my first prs match was Jan 2018 and I shot 21% to the overall guy. By the way it was late Feb when I got my first vudoo and that first week I put 500 rounds though it practicing. Both rifles weighed the same, I had the same AMG on both. Fast forward 6 months, had only 5 matches on my CF rifle about 400 rounds. I had never practiced with my CF rifle, made the choice to burn up the 22 first..Shooting sk I burned over 2.5K in 22 in 4 or 5 months. I moved from 21% to 90% of the same guy who is a bad ass shooter. Won the Brawl in 2018! 100% of my practice was done with a 22lr...I am not worried about wind, but a 22lr past 100 is crazy and you learn to trust wind calls...recoil is another joke, my 6xc shooting 115gr dtac at 3050 with the monster brake feels like my vudoo so that's not a thing to worry about. Both my rifles weigh 18lbs...In the end 22lr trainer saved me a ton of money, I burn a barrel in 1800 rounds! 700.00! It cost about .80cents a round for my 6xc if I don't loose the brass. I figured one time I could shoot 10 or 15k in 22 for the 1800 rounds of 6xc and the barrel. Yes it means double the money, but in our area you can shoot an NRL22 or 22prs style match every weekend..We had an 8 stage match this weekend that was 100 rounds. We shoot all our stuff over a big ass pond with small islands in the middle with targets out to 350..This is also for our big rifle shoots using the same props but target layout is different and we go to 925 yards..

 

[gme]

View attachment 1175115 Hey Gary.. hope that you are doing well!

Randy

hey Randy you're still with us!

 

[USMCDOC]

hey Randy you're still with us!

oh yeah man.. wouldn't miss if for the world ya know! Been shooting some Rimfire BR, might get into some prone Smallbore or F-class.. i have really come to liking the rimfire stuff

 

[1shot]

I must politely disagree that rimfire practice doesn't help trigger management. The amount of time that RF bullet is in the barrel is at least 2-3x longer that the centerfire rifle. Poor trigger management and follow thru will show up immediately on target. Before any major match, I spend 2-3 sessions a week shooting SB 50' targets. I compete against myself to see how tight I can keep 5 shots per bull. As a knuckle dragging sling shooter, I know this helps.

Lloyd

 

[garandman]

I must politely disagree that rimfire practice doesn't help trigger management.

Lloyd

I actually never said a rim fire doesn't help trigger management.

I said we could use our center fire rifles dry fire practice to do that. .. Instead of spending another 2500 to $4000 on a rim fire gun.



You know… on the actual trigger of the actual rifle that we actually compete with on center fire competitions....

 

[JMA]

If you want to learn trigger control try bullseye pistol
One hand 3.5 LBS trigger pull, 1.5" x-ring at 50 yards is all about trigger control

Many shooters don't appreciate the value of dry firing.
Was at a regional pistol match and the Marine Corp team was there and gave
an impromptu seminar. A question was asked about dry firing.
Four hours per day. Was the answer.

 

[XTR]

Personally when I have dabbled in XTC I find it much easier these days to find some place to shoot 25 or 50 yards with a RF than to drive to a range where I can shoot center fire, and the same goes for barricade practice with a PRS rifle.

Then there was the 40X that I put in an F-TR stock and called it a trainer, about 2 sessions later I realized that shooting supported prone with a 22LR wasn't learnin' me anything.

 

[Hoser]

I'm an absolute believer in, it's your money do/buy whatever you want, but for me, I can't say that I really see the point of the 22LR versions of some of these just to shoot paper at 50 yards. Yes, I understand they do more than shoot paper at 50 yards with these things, but again, for me, I don't see them have a lot of value for anything I'd want one for.

50 Yards? Thats the closest I shoot my Vudoo. At 50 we shoot targets ranging from 1 inch down to 0.25 inch. The range that I hold my monthly match at only goes out to 220 yards so that where we stop. When we get that far out, the targets range from about 1.5 inches to 4 inches.

Shooting a 22 at distance magnifies every error. Everything from missing a 2 mph wind change to parallax to crappy trigger technique, ect.

And there is no reloading...

 

[orkan]

Every single rifle driving fundamental that you can train on a centerfire, you can train on a 22lr, and do so at 25 or 50yds.

The issue most people have with that statement, is they don't own a 22lr that can shoot fine enough to see it for themselves. Once you have a 22lr that can shoot .3" or better at 50yds, the effects of what you're doing behind the rifle will reveal themselves. Hook the trigger, watch it on the target. Overload the bipod, watch it on the target. Muscle the rifle, watch it on the target. The proof is there for anyone willing to look. Ignore a lull in the wind, watch it on the target.

The recoil of a 22lr might be tiny, but it lasts for a very long time. The bullet is a full 3x slower than most centerfire rifles. As a result, any issues with NPA or fundamentals is amplified.

 

[kzin]

I shoot 95+% 22 rimfire and so far my centerfire scores have tracked upward with my 22 scores. This is for all of score bench, f-open, f-tr, tactical, 'vintage sniper' and some mediocre sling shooting.

My centerfire scores in 200 yard local matches or 600 yard matches with trivial wind go up fine. Reading tricky wind at 600 yards is another problem.

How I'm ever going to get that where I'd like it to be with only a relatively sheltered 200 yard range available for practice I still don't know.

 

[garandman]

Every single rifle driving fundamental that you can train on a centerfire, you can train on a 22lr, and do so at 25 or 50yds.

The issue most people have with that statement, is they don't own a 22lr that can shoot fine enough to see it for themselves. .

I own a Vudoo. Not only do I own a 22. I own the best 22 there is for "training" for my CF guns.

I can practice my dry fire in my house with my CF guns. Can't with a 22rf.

And you can't practice external ballistics, wind drift / reading , trajectory, recoil mgmt etc on a 22rf in any way that corresponds to a CF gun.