22BR Flyers

[Jud96]

I’m having issues with flyers in my groups. Below is an example of what I’m getting. Yes it’s only 3 shot groups but if it does it with 3 it’ll do it with 5 as well. The rifle is a Remington 700, Brux barrel 27” 1-7T 22BR, HS stock bedded, Triggertech trigger, Sightron SIII 8-32x56. I have tried seating depths from .005 off to .070 off in .005 increments. I have tried two powders and I’ve tried different neck tension. I can’t seem to shake the flyer. I’m shooting from the bench with a Caldwell Rock BR with upgrade Protecktor bag and rear sand bag. I’m no expert, but this isn’t my first rodeo and have not ever had a barrel be this picky and difficult before. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[JSH]

First shot, or is it random?
I am relearning a bunch on my bench technique myself.
Both being verticals, I would guess it is set up and how you let it recoil.

 

[K22]

I assumed you did the normal stock / scope screws checks and you are not canting the rifle.

Which shot is the flyer, i.e. first second or third?

Don't know if you can accurately analyze three - three shot groups. Possible shooter error?

Is there any pattern to the flyers relative to cleaning regime. Some rifle require some level of copper plating in the bore before they become consistent. Some will throw a clean barrel shot off the main group. In some rifles, a cold barrel shot will be different than a warm barrel shot.

How warm was the barrel when you shot these groups? i.e. were the group fired under similar barrel conditions.

What was the wind and mirage conditions?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

When you charge(load development) tested you didn't have flyers (vertical) at 33.6 grs?

 

[Jud96]

There doesn’t seem to be a pattern to any of the flyers. I’ve tried cleaning the barrel but I had flyers when there were 50+ shots down the barrel. Both powders I tried had less than 20fps ES for velocity and single digit SDs. The seating depths I have tried showed the most promise when testing them. So theoretically I have the best powder and seating depth chosen. I’m not sure if it’s me or my bags. This barrel is a 7 twist so spinning the bullets over 300,000 RPM could be an issue. I’ll test a lower node and see if that changes anything.

 

[JSH]

I was just reading that vertical is a major issue with the heavies in the 22’s. All from not getting SD’s down low enough.
Have you changed bullets by chance?

 

[JMayo]

Neck tension ?

 

[Jud96]

I’m expanding my necks and setting neck tension with a Sinclair mandrel die and mandrels. I’ve tried both .001 and .002 neck tension. Not much difference on target.

I have some Berger 85.5s on the way.

 

[lpreddick]

I'll get flyers when brass needs annealing. Necks harden at different rates and even though they all have the same neck tension, the harder neck will have a tighter grip and require more pressure to release the bullet, resulting in greater muzzle velocity and reduced barrel time. Anneal the brass and pay close attention to the resistance when seating bullets...harder necks require a little more effort to seat the bullet and it might seat higher.

 

[jimmymac]

Seems like you’ve worked pretty hard at this. I have had similar frustrations when there seems to be no rhyme or reason for odd fliers.

If you have a back up scope, I’d swap it out and see if things improve. It’s about the easiest thing you can do and will quickly eliminate one potential variable. If no improvement is seen, then the issue is obviously elsewhere. Scope issues can be a real pain in the butt and are frequently over looked. I’ve spent some time chasing my tail with load development when the actual problem was my scope.

 

[LHSmith]

Yes it’s only 3 shot groups but if it does it with 3 it’ll do it with 5 as well. View attachment 1259292

Five shot groups would tell you that the load may just not be capable of reasonable accuracy- in other words you are just assuming the outliers are flyers. They might show you have double grouping which usually means the load may be a tad too hot. Use windflags and verify you are parallax free.
Also, there was a thread last week about reading bullet holes. Look closely at yours, the actual hole in the paper is off center to the black ring left by the bullet. This tells me your bullets are flying "catywonkers" -in other words- not very stable.

 

[AckleymanII]

how many rounds are on the barrel now?

What kind of primer are you using?

 

[Old Navy]

How does it shoot lighter bullets?

 

[AlNyhus]

What are you using for wind flags? There's a good amount of 'weather report' in the groups you posted. On the .310 group for example, 5-7 more shots may have shown the true tendency.

If you haven't tried other bullets/powders, it's pretty hard to say that somethings wrong. The barrel may just not like what you're trying to feed it. -Al

 

[edwardware]

Yes it’s only 3 shot groups but if it does it with 3 it’ll do it with 5 as well.

I wouldn't declare that a "group and a flyer" until I'd seen a couple 5 or 10 round groups.

 

[LW Moore]

Neck Turn a wee bit more than needed, The hateful 22 shoots better loose I found.

 

[Jud96]

I wanted to answer some questions and update you guys. Below is a a checklist and more details on the rifle and load.

-Free floated 27” Brux Sendero contour barrel
-Stress free Marine Tex bedded action
-Action screws torqued to 60 in lbs
-I have tried a Leupold VX3 6.5-20x before I bought the Sightron with the same groups
-Loaded necks have .005 clearance
-Firing pin doesn’t rub in the bolt or on the shroud
-Firing pin spring doesn’t rub inside bolt
-I only have Winchester #41 primers to work with
-I only have IMR 4895 and IMR 4451 for powders
-I have some Berger 85.5s I just got that I’ll try next
-I have never had this problem before that I couldn’t fix with seating depth or load work
-The barrel has around 300 rounds on it
-The brass is Lapua Gold Box 6BR
-This brass has 3-4x firings on it. I only made 50 cases for now.
-I haven’t annealed it because I do not have an annealer yet.

 

[jimmymac]

Have you had 22BR barrels that shot well out of this same platform?

For bullets...Unless I missed it, I didn't see any mention of trying to work in to the lands for seating depth, only away.

Good luck.

 

[boltfluter]

You need different powders to try. Neither of these powders have shown good results in the 6 or so .22BR rifles I have owned. The rifle is trying to tell you it isn't happy.

Paul

 

[Jud96]

The barrel before this was the factory Remington 700 .243 barrel. It regularly shot in the .5s or slightly smaller on average. So for a factory barrel it did okay. I need to get some better powder I believe. I’ll see if there’s anyway I could score some Varget, H4895, or IMR 8208. I’ve heard good stuff about those in the BR cases.