.22BR barrel question

[Kenny474]

I am going to be ordering a 1-12 twist barrel to be chambered in .22BR. I don't have any experience with this round and had a few questions before I call to place my order. I will either be buying a Shilen or a Pac-Nor, or possibly another maker, depending on who can get it to me quicker. This is going to be a varmint/predator rifle and I am not picky about who's barrel I use as long as it is a quality product. I will likely go with a light varmint contour, as I want to try to keep it relatively manageable weight wise.

My first question: What number of grooves should I go with, and what effect does the groove count have? I have read that it doesn't matter and lower groove counts clean easier, but I would like a few opinions on what will work best so I don't steer myself in the wrong direction.

Shilen doesn't list any groove number options on their site that I can see. Do they just have a standard number they use or is that something I can specify?

What would be a good compromise for weight/velocity/maneuverability as far as length is concerned? I was thinking around 24" to 26" would be manageable, but I want to keep the velocity up there as well.

Will I really lose any real world accuracy by going with a Chrome-Moly barrel as compared to Stainless, considering this will be a hunting rifle shot mostly off-hand or with a shooting stick or Bi-Pod? Are there any other downfalls to Chrome-Moly? I really want a nice rifle that is very accurate, if I will be losing out I really would appreciate a heads up. I will be using this for varmints next summer on my trip as well, so it needs to hold up under long strings of fire without fouling out as well. (maybe I am asking for a lot?)

Thanks for any help you can give me. This is only the second barrel I have ordered, and the first was a pre-fit that I chose based on twist rate alone. I would like to be able to make a more informed decision, and hope some of you can help me do so.

Thank you
Kenny

 

[johnmyers]

Kenny
Look on my reply on your post on coyote rifle. Go with a 1:8 twist so you can shoot light and heavy bullets.
John

 

[Kenny474]

John,
Thank you for the reply. I had yet to read it when this was written. How is the throat wear looking now that you have the 22BR? Does it look as though it will fare better than the 22-250? I had read that the BR is much easier on the throat, and that was one of the main reasons I wanted the 22BR. All the speed with less wear.

As for twist, I think I am going to stick with the 1-12. I have a 1-9 on my .222 and I never use bullets heavy enough to take advantage of it. It will shoot 69gr SMK's and Nosler custom comp's very well, but I bought a box of each and still have a bunch of them to this day. I shoot more 40 to 55 grain bullets than anything else, and I went with the 9 twist as it was my original plan to shoot the 69gr SMK as my main bullet and it has only seen about 60 or 70 down the tube. Looking back, I could have went with a 1-12 and maybe squeezed a bit more speed out of it.

I can still shoot the 64gr Berger Varmint Match in the 1-12 from the 22BR, and it has a BC of .294 which is only slightly less than the 69gr SMK. I don't shoot long very often, and when I went on my last trip to North Dakota to shoot PD's I had my longest shot to date at 340 yards. I am not comfortable shooting any longer, as I only have a 300 yard range to practice on. So having an 8 twist to shoot high BC VLD's is a waste, as I can reach my maximum comfort zone with the 64gr Bergers with ease.

Until I have a place to practice on paper at over 300 yards, it just doesn't make sense for me to build a rifle that is made to shoot any farther. I just don't have anywhere to make use of it, nor the skill to do so either.

Maybe I will upgrade down the road, but for now I am going with what matches my ability and available yardage at the range.

Thanks again
Kenny

 

[RJinTexas]

Kenny, I'm a p-dog shooter and the 22BR is one of my favorite mid range cartridges for shooting 300 to 450 yards. I've owned both 12 & 14 twist barrels from 20" to 29" and definitely prefer a 14tw with zero freebore. The 14tw will shoot most bullets between 40 to 60 grains very well. The 22br won't heat up on you nearly as fast as a 22-250 will. But if you plan on doing much high volume shooting like you'll experience in a good dog town I highly recommend a HV contour to help dissipate the heat. I know you'd like to keep it a little lighter, I prefer 26" barrels but 24" will still work. I also suggest you try shooting 60gr Vmax's in the dog towns, you'll find they buck the wind much better then the lighter bullets and provide maximum red mist.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
RJ

 

[Kenny474]

Thanks RJ, Advice is much appreciated. This will be a double duty coyote and PD gun, and I have a .222 that comes to North Dakota as well. So I can swap off to let one cool.

I was leaning toward the 26" myself, as I want to get as much speed as i can while still maintaining some degree of maneuverability. I also want the 12 twist to allow for a heavier bullet on the coyotes if needed. I am going to try, and hope, I can find a bullet that will totally fragment inside the dog without exiting. I have heard the Varmint Grenade from Barnes will do this, but I will have to wait and see. I have been looking for a frangible that could be used as well, but no luck.


So anyone have suggestions on number of rifling grooves? I am still stumped and want to start calling around for a barrel on Monday.
Any pros-cons on chrome-moly or should I just stick with stainless?

Thanks again

 

[NorCalMikie]

Pac Nor makes a 3 groove. (got 3) Cleans real easy and does bug holes. You best bet would be to make up a dummy round fitted with the lightest bullet you plan to shoot. Seat it to the shoulder neck junction and have the freebore cut to that so you can jam your bullets. Every round you shoot will make the throat longer so 500 rounds down the road you might not be able to reach the lands anymore.
You can't shoot 40s and 100s out of the same barrel and touch the lands with enough bullet contact in the neck.
IMHO, go with a 1-8 twist and you can shoot any weight bullet. 26" long barrel in a heavy varmint would be best to draw off the heat.
SS or CM? CM costs less but it will need to be finished to have a better chance of not rusting.
Or get it in the white and keep it oiled. Flip a coin.
It's your gun. Build it the way "you" want it.
And the 22BR is a natural born bug hole maker.

 

[johnmyers]

Kenny,

I agree with norcalmikie, I think you would be better in the long run with a 1:8 twist as you won't be limited with light bullets. Go with SS. I think you will find they all shoot good without loss of speed.

 

[kjcpoint]

Kenny,
If you are shooting pd's the 22 br is a way better choice. Now for a coyote rifle, and im not sure of your hunting conditions, but the first time you hit a cattail slough and 3 yotes blow out the back side at 75 yards and you get one shot from your 22 br and wont cycle another your gonna kick yourself in the ass.

Lilja 3 groove 12 twist #5 contour at 22 inches in 22 250 and you can still shoot pd's.

Kyle

 

[Preacher]

Pac-Nor makes a darn nice 3 groove .224 barrel.....
With the way you'll be using it, stay with the 12 twist, but do use the 3 groove you'll be glad you did...

 

[Phil]

Kenny,

My 22BR,22 Dasher,6BR and 6 Dasher all wear Krieger barrels.......

The 22BR is a 14 twist all the others are 12 twist.

My 20 Dasher wears a Pac Nor 3 groove 11 twist.


Krieger makes DAMN GOOD 22 and 24 cal. barrels in my opinion(for what thats worth).

 

[Kenny474]

Thanks everyone.
The more I think about it, the less I want Chrome-Moly. I appreciate the groove suggestions, and it seems as though 3 groove is the way to go. And like I said, I really don't care who's barrel I end up with, as long as I don't have to wait 8 months to get it.
I like the idea of a cut rifled barrel, such as a Krieger, but I know a lot of others do as well and figure they will likely have a long wait. I will call them as well and see how long the wait is.
As for twist, I have little use for anything faster than a 1-12. Long shots are few and far between for me, and 64gr Berger Varmint's will reach as far as I need and pack enough power as well. I understand the concept behind going with the 1-8, but it's just faster than necessary for my application.
I have a 1-8 twist 6mm Kreiger 29" HV blank in my closet that I hope to use for a 6BR barrel someday, so that will fill my need for heavy bullets.

As for chambering, I am doing that myself with guidance from my Dad. I understand the issue with freebore, and I plan to go as short as I can. I know the benefits of having one cut to suit my needs, but I will probably only use it once so I am considering a rental. Another decision I need to make.


Thanks to all who have posted.
Kenny

 

[Kenny474]

One thing to keep in mind is I will only use this rifle for PD's for one week a year on average. I also will continue to bring my .222 along so I can swap rifles when one heats up.

The rest of the time it will be keeping the local coyote population in check.
I am not real worried about letting a few slip by if I can't get shots off fast enough, as I will have a friend with me to pick up what I miss or anchor any that try to run after being hit. And if any get away (as long as they are not wounded) than so be it. You can't get 'em all!

 

[bozo699]

Kenny,
Your like a little kid in a candy store. LOL You have a lot of good suguestions here so I won't make any. I'll keep following your quest for a coyote gun its been great.
Wayne.

 

[Kenny474]

Thanks for the encouragement Wayne. I am trying to make sure I don't end up disappointed and looking back wishing I had done things differently. With the help of everyone on this site I am getting some good ideas and information from some very knowledgeable shooters who have used this round in the past.

Last time I went ahead and and built a rifle without asking questions I ended up regretting a few choices I had made. That will not be the case this time!

Thanks
Kenny

 

[Kenny474]

So I ordered my barrel today. I called several places and most were 7-10 weeks out, which will set me back quite a bit and cut into hunting a bit. But I managed to find a Shilen HV 1-12 30" Stainless Match barrel in stock at a retailer, so since it will match the 6mm Krieger blank I already I have I ordered it. Should be here in a few weeks at most.

Now I need to figure out freebore and rent a few reamers, one in 22BR and another in 6BR so I can get crackin on the cutting. I was going to save the Krieger 6mm 1-8 barrel for an eventual full custom build, but it's been in my closet for some time now and I am no closer to building it now than I was when I bought it. So it may as well do switch barrel duty on my Savage.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Again, dummy round fitted with the bullet you plan to shoot most. Next to nothing freebore.
The throat can only get longer.

 

[Ackman]

So I ordered my barrel today. I called several places and most were 7-10 weeks out, which will set me back quite a bit and cut into hunting a bit. But I managed to find a Shilen HV 1-12 30" Stainless Match barrel in stock at a retailer, so since it will match the 6mm Krieger blank I already I have I ordered it. Should be here in a few weeks at most.

Now I need to figure out freebore and rent a few reamers, one in 22BR and another in 6BR so I can get crackin on the cutting. I was going to save the Krieger 6mm 1-8 barrel for an eventual full custom build, but it's been in my closet for some time now and I am no closer to building it now than I was when I bought it. So it may as well do switch barrel duty on my Savage.

You'll like the cartridge. It's the easiest to get shooting of anything I've had. Bruno usually has barrels in stock.

My 22BR's are 14 and I believe 12 twist, both 26" long which is plenty. Chambering.....that case has a long neck and doesn't need any freebore. One chamber is 1.565" long, about .010" longer than the case, and 0 freebore. The heaviest .22bullet I have is a 60VMax....at the lands it's about .050"-.060" above the neck/shoulder junction. Lighter 50 and 55gr bullets seat longer and are all over the place. A 50Bal tip seats about 2/3 down the neck. The 50TNT seats way up, only about .120" inside the neck.

Freebore is something you don't need with what you'll be doing. My first 22BR was before Lapua brass and had to use Rem. 7BR as the basic case, has .243" nk...... you don't want a tight neck either. I'd recommend having your own reamer. Buy the brass then make a few cases and spec the reamer to it. It's worth doing to have exactly what you want and know how many times it's been used. For an unturned neck .253" is good, with 1.565" chamber length. And NO freebore. Dave at PTG knows this stuff and will help.

Shooting 50/55's, accuracy loads will be as fast or faster than a 22-250. Nice thing about that cartridge, it has a wide accurate velocity window.....at least with slower twist and lighter bullets. Several powders work really well for me.....Reloder 15, VV133, AA2230, W748 have all been accurate with velocity from 3700 to 4000, depending. There're probably a bunch of other good ones I haven't tried. A well put together gun with good chamber, it shouldn't be hard finding a load that shoots small one-hole groups.

 

[Octopus]

Kenny,

One of the best shooting 22 barrels I have ever had is the 22 WalDog. It is a short version of the 22 PPC. Very little recoil in a 10.5# LV and the easiest rifle to shoot I have ever had. I shoot 52 Gr match bullets @ around 3600.

I also shoot the 222 Rem tight neck in a 13# BR rifle. Lots of fun.

The 22 BR is easy but it does have an over bore power volume. Most 308 bolts will extract the PPC case. If yours does it opens some other doors. Any you can change the bolt face on the Savage for a few dollars.

If I were do a new 22 today I think I would use the 220 Beggs. Brass is very easy and Hornady makes a very good die set. Check it out. Or just contact Gene at genebeggs@cableone.net

 

[Kenny474]

Thanks for the tips Octopus. I had thought about the 220 Beggs after seeing the rifle in the daily bulletin, but since I am also chambering a 6BR barrel the 22BR will save me from buying 2 sets of dies.

I too have a tight neck .222, not so tight I need to neck turn, but tighter than SAAMI. I agree it's a blast to shoot, especially in the boat anchor of a bench rifle I have. I have never weighed my rifle, as I don't compete, but it has to be 15lbs or better. The little triple deuce is very surprising with the accuracy it delivers, and so far barrel life looks as though it will quite long. I regularly show up my buddies and their .223's with the little .222, and I can't wait to get the 22BR going so I can 1-up them in velocity as well.

The best part of having a few Savage actions and barrels with the same contour is I can swap the barrels from my bench gun to the varminter I am building in just a few minutes. Not so easy with most other makes, especially when going from one action to another.