.223AI VS 22.250

[LCSportsman]

Hi fellow shooters

I always like to ask other shooters opinions about things. I have a 22.250. Great caliber. When the barrel goes I will most likely switch it to something else.

I asked last year about the 250 Savage VS the 6-250 and thanks for all the info.

Now I am re-thinking because of the heavier bullets in the .224, such as the 80 gr. Wind is the biggest reason I wanted to go to the 6mm bullet originally.

I need to keep the recoil down as much as possible, medical issues. So that's why I am thinking of staying with the 22 cal.
The 223 AI, from what I have read & understand, is right on the heals of the 22.250 and brass is much more available & cheaper.

If anyone has a .223 AI or first hand knowledge of this cartridge please inform me of the pro's & con's.

Thanks

LCSportsman

 

[jwv2001]

I have a .223 AI. Performance is [good] while burning ~30% less powder than [22-250].
You won't be able to rebarrel the 22-250 to 223 AI though. The AI won't fit your bolt, .378 vs. .473.

 

[Ogre6br]

I had a R700 built into a 223 AI many years back and in a moment of insanity I sold it- have regretted it ever since.
I'm building one again as soon as I have the $$
accurate, brass everywhere, almost 22/250 performance with much less powder burnt, can keep shooting longer than a 22/250 before the barrel really heats up.

Your 22/250 could be made into a very nice 22 BR with a cut and shut or 6 Br with a re-barrel

later
P

 

[ReedG]

I am a fan of the .223 AI,and the standard .223) but the only way they are "right on the heels of a .22-250" is by comparing hot handloads in the AI to factory .22-250. The 22 BR is the one that will give the .22-250 a run for its money on a lot less powder. But the BR and .22-250 can't give you the barrel life of the .223 AI.

Although I'm not too high on .20 caliber rifles it does seem from all the reports I read from respectable sources that the .204 Ruger beats just about every .22-cal. out there, except for some exotic wildcats, in drop and wind drift -- and does it with low recoil and light bullets.

I still prefer the .223, but it seems the .204 has a leg up on most of the .22s for short- to medium-range varminting.

 

[Ackman]

The 223AI is a really good cartridge and a definite step up from the std. 223. It's not a large case to start with and with 50gr loads there's only roughly about 1-1/2gr powder increase over the std. 223. With heavy bullets there's not a big difference in velocity. But with 50's and 40's it can pretty much replace the 22-250. With a good barrel and good brass, working,accuracy - .2"s and .3"s) loads with 50gr bullets are 3750-3825 using AA2015 and VV133 powder. Velocity with 55BT's is about 100fps slower but accurate. With 40's it's anywhere from 4050 to 4200 again with ragged hole accuracy. You can compare those to a 22-250 and judge for yourself. By "good barrel" I mean top quality match barrel that's not slow. My "good" barrel is a 14" twist Schneider and working loads are at these velocities. Two others - Douglas and Midway A&B,a mediocre barrel) - chambered with the same reamer are 100-200fps slower with the same loads. And by "good brass" I mean IMI or Lapua. Mine is all IMI and the stuff lasts forever......primer pockets stay nice and tight and there're no signs of overpressure even in over 100 degree weather. I know of a couple other people who're getting similar or better performance from their guns. With the right combination, a 223AI will make you very happy.

If you do one, I'd recommend getting your own reamer. Mine was spec'd for IMI brass, has 0 freebore, .250"nk.

 

[acloco]

The standard 22-250 will run 300 to 350 fps faster than the 223 AI, if they are both loaded to the same pressure.

The 223 AI is only slightly faster than the plain vanilla 223.
The .223 AI is ballistically equal to the 222 Mag, which is only a little faster,1.5 grains or 5% larger), and the 223 AI has only 2/3 the capacity of the 22-250.



I don't agree with your info. Both of my 223 AI's are nearly the same as or better than a 22-250 and definitely outperform the standard 223.

22-250 data from Hodgdon's site
55 GR. SPR SP 55 Benchmark .224" 2.350" 31.6 3532 46,200 CUP 33.6 3674 50,200 CUP

223 data from Hodgdon's site
55 GR. SPR SP 55 Benchmark .224" 2.200" 24.0 3113 42,600 CUP 25.6 3264 50,000 CUP



I shoot my 223 AI at 3650 with 27.4 grains of Benchmark and a 55 gr SP bullet.,work UP to this load please!!)

The 223 AI is approaching the 204 Ruger ballistics with a 50 or 52 grain bullet in terms of bullet drop. Close, but not quite the same.

 

[jb77]

I agree with ReedG on this one. Even If you gain 200fps with the AI version of a 223,which I doubt)then it is still a good ways behind the 22-250.

Like the man says when comparing the 223 to the 22-250 "I'snt it cute".

 

[AckleymanII]

I have two 223 AI's with 14 twist Hart barrels on them, minimum spec match chamber with zero freebore.

They are unreal accurate with any powder that I have shot with them. N133 with the 50's is the most accurate with extreme speed and the n-135 is the most accurate with the 55's using Rem 7 1/2's, CCI450's, or CCI BR-4's that all have thicker cup primers, and I am shooting IMI brass which is the equal of Lapua brass in toughness.

I shoot the 50's at 3750 in the 23" barrel, 3830 in the 26" barrel. The 55's are at 3650 in the 26" barrel and 3600 in the 23" barrel.

Accuracy in my trued 40X is good enough to shoot in a registered benchrest match with 10.0+g less powder than a 22/250. A 26" 22/250 barrel will reach slightly higher velocities with certain powders only, varget not being one of them, but 760 will punch out slightly more velocity, if that particular barrel will shoot it.

Good luck!

 

[Ackman]

I agree with ReedG on this one. Even If you gain 200fps with the AI version of a 223,which I doubt) then it is still a good ways behind the 22-250.

Like the man says when comparing the 223 to the 22-250 "Is'nt it cute".

[Edited by Moderator]

Build a .223AI and do it right. Have a .223AI reamer made..... .002"-.003" over web dia, 0 freebore, .250"nk, chamber length 1.765". Use a good 24-26" barrel. Mine is a 14" twist 25" Schneider.

IMI brass or the newer Lapua Match, Rem 7-1/2primer. I use IMI. Bullets seated .005" or .010" off the lands.

With VV133 powder......50gr. bullet
28.0=3752 w/50TNT
28.0=3825 w/50BK
No signs of overpressure.
I haven't shot 40's with this powder.

VV135 powder.......
28.5gr=3651 w/55BalTip
No signs of overpressure.

With AA2015......40gr. BalTip
28.5=4096
29.0=4195 No signs of overpressure

There it is.

 

[acloco]

Hmmm...I bought a 223AI reamer...very close to the specs you have posted.

 

[jb77]

I am supposed to believe that you are getting nearly 600fps more with 3 extra grains of powder.

[Edited by Moderator]

I have 2 22-250's and 2 223's and I know what both of them will do and the 223's are 800 to 1000fps slower than the 22-250's. It is somewhat of a given that if you "improve" a caliber that this is good for an extra 150 to 200 fps. Anything more and you are working above SAAMI specs.

Don't accuse me of spouting off I have my own numbers.

A 223AI loaded to the same pressures as a 22-250 sucks hind tit.

 

[acloco]

[Edited by Moderator]

Umm...pressure rises quicker in a smaller case,in relation to the amount of powder)....so will the velocity of a bullet from the same case.

Believe that is WHY, when working with smaller cases, EVERY reloading book, manual, and guide, has indicated to work up loads in SMALLER increments when working with smaller cases.

Believe a little physics is involved - X size of space, containing Y amount of powder is directly proportionate to the pressure.

 

[Ackman]

I didn't say you didn't get what you said out of the 223 AI...
... it's that your loads for the 22-250 are light in the loafers. My 22-250 loads are 250-300fps faster, in ALL of my 22-250s.

There is 250-300 fps difference between the 223 AI and the factory 22-250, when both are loaded to the same pressure, same bullets, and with optimum powders.

There is no way in hell that a case with 28-29 grains of powder will equal a case that holds 40-41 grains of powder, under equal pressures, with equal bullets and equal barrels.

The 22-250 load is a 50 at 3925 using Reloder 15 powder. Faster than most of the reloading manuals and about all you can get from that cartridge. Finding best accuracy at that velocity was a surprise.

[Edited by Moderator]

 

[AckleymanII]

Catshooter, Benchmark in a 22/250? That sounds interesting! I have never tried it, mind sharing your loads on a PM?

Thanks in advance!

 

[LCSportsman]

Hi guys, I've been away from the site for sometime. Thanks for all in info and replies.

I did not mean to start a fire fight over a simple question. I'll try and do my own research next time.

Thanks to all who gave and to those that gave all

LCSportsman

 

[Forum Boss]

Gentlemen,

I just deleted and/or edited a dozen or so posts in this thread because members were exchanging disparaging or insulting comments.

That won't be tolerated in this board.

Civil exchange of ideas is what we want. It is OK to disagree. But don't insult one another. I don't want to see comments such as "that's idiotic", "you're full of crap" etc.

All that does is provoke a more heated retort and then the thread devolves into a pissing match.

When comparing two cartridges please just stick to the facts. If there is a 250 fps difference in peak velocities some readers will find that significant while others will determine that's close enough for their needs. There's no need to say something such as "You're clueless", "You need professional help", or "you're full of sh** because my cartridge is faster than your cartridge."

There are many knowledgeable people on the board. Everyone will benefit if we keep the exchanges civil, and recognize that all posters have something to offer, though perhaps with different perspectives.

I do not have time for this kind of stuff.

 

[bobcat93]

I've always thought the 22-250 was an odd ball..
I've never owned one but my father, and son has.
And I have reloading and shot them..
I view it as a sloppy cartridge
Like if you jam that much powder behind anything it will get moving...its alot of powder, and I think its used inefficiently . This is just my perspective..and opinion the 22-250 is dead...way better option now ..I still have new brass and reloads kicking around just in case I'm wrong..it happens..
I would pass on the 223 AI, and the 22-250..but thats me...

 

[varmintshooter]

Old post I know, but I like my 223AI with a 9.5 twist shooting 50 and 53 gr Vmax. My 8 twist shooting 75 gr amax is good on windy days shooting groundhogs. With 22-250 brass being hard to find the 223AI is looking even better.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

My 22-250's have a 12 twist. 9.5 seems a lot for 50/53 grain bullets. Not saying it won't work. Have shot a lot of 52/53's in a 8 twist 223 barrel XTC. Standing, I like to get the bullet out of the barrel while it's still aimed at the target! And off the bench they are never more than 1/2 MOA.

Frank

 

[urbanrifleman]

The 223 Ackley is absolutely capable of achieving 22-50 velocities. Maybe not the absolute top of the 22-250 capability but if a person was shooting mild loads in a 22-250 You could easily attain the same performance in a 223 Ackley