Yes, the Lee collet neck sizing die for the standatd .223 works great on 223AI brass. My process is simple and has worked very well for me. I take standard .223 brass, FL size and trim. Fire form to 223AI and neck size with the .223 collet die. If I need to bump the shoulder back I FL size with 223AI brass as I don't have a body die yet.
.223AI brass test
- Thread starter TOObuilder
- Start date
Yes, the Lee collet neck sizing die for the standatd .223 works great on 223AI brass. My process is simple and has worked very well for me. I take standard .223 brass, FL size and trim. Fire form to 223AI and neck size with the .223 collet die. If I need to bump the shoulder back I FL size with 223AI brass as I don't have a body die yet.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
RT,Rtheurer said:
I feel the imperial does a better job on virgin brass then the graphite does. No I have not found any short cuts, it needs cleaned out and the only way I have found is elbow grease
Wayne.
I have in a pinch used my 6br sizing die to resize my 6 dasher brass, you can get about half or a little more of the neck sized before the 40 degree shoulder hits the 30 degree shoulder of the die???? so you have to be very careful not to touch the shoulder, will it work?....yes, is it right?....NO. They sell .223 AI neck dies every day so other then being in a pinch I don't understand why you would want to use the wrong die for the jobACLakey said:
it just doesn't make sense to me. Personally I believe the key to accuracy is consistency, no chamber is perfectly round so unless you mark your brass and re index it back into the chamber perfectly the way it came out I think your wasting your time neck sizing because there is no consistancy, if you use a body die in conjunction with your neck die or just simply f/l size the brass is the same every time ( Consistency ) You all do as you please, myself I like using the right tool for the job
Wayne.
P.S the other day while going to Montana I saw a Volkswagen Rabbit pulling at least a 25' travel trailer
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:-\ O'h well I guess it worked for them From speaking with Lee and tearing apart the 223 Collet die I see no way the collet will contact the shoulder if set up properly. The collet squeezes the neck around a mandrel only and does not contact the shoulder or body. With Lee neck sizing dies I have noticed my runout to me very minimal with all loads. For what I am doing it is perfect and accurate, YMMV.
ACLakey said:
I use Lee Collet dies on everything I load except for .38-55 ... they are the best. My .223AI on a Savage Model 12 action with Pac-Nor 1:14 barrel has over 2,000 rounds down the tube, all neck sized with the Collet Die, annealed after every third firing, never FL sized, never shoulder bumped, still shooting .25MOA. Always shoot t-d coated bullets just because it makes sense to me.
The Lee Collet Die is the best-kept secret in shooting. Who would possibly buy a cheap chintzy $25 die to load for his $2,000+ rig? Anyone who wants the best brass possible. It resizes the INSIDE of the neck to uniform size on a mandrel; no possibility of the dreaded "donut"; neck run-out so close you get bored even checking it; no lube; no working of the brass by forcing it into a bushing or other die. I personally don't understand why everybody doesn't use them.
I have a full custom BAT-actioned BR rifle, all the toys we convince ourselves we "need" like custom Hood press, custom turret press by Fred Moreo, custom sizing die made with my reamer, every gadget and tool imaginable ... but none of it is more valuable to good shooting than Lee Collet Dies.
If you want, you can even turn your own mandrels in a mini-lathe and vary neck tension any way you want.
The Lee Collet Die is the best-kept secret in shooting. Who would possibly buy a cheap chintzy $25 die to load for his $2,000+ rig? Anyone who wants the best brass possible. It resizes the INSIDE of the neck to uniform size on a mandrel; no possibility of the dreaded "donut"; neck run-out so close you get bored even checking it; no lube; no working of the brass by forcing it into a bushing or other die. I personally don't understand why everybody doesn't use them.
I have a full custom BAT-actioned BR rifle, all the toys we convince ourselves we "need" like custom Hood press, custom turret press by Fred Moreo, custom sizing die made with my reamer, every gadget and tool imaginable ... but none of it is more valuable to good shooting than Lee Collet Dies.
If you want, you can even turn your own mandrels in a mini-lathe and vary neck tension any way you want.
I went ahead and ordered Lee collet dies in both .223 and 6.5x55. They seem to work just fine on both of my AI versions.
I guess the main thing I learned out of all of this is to pay very close attention to the amount you bump the shoulder when using a FL or body die. As we have shown here there is more than one way to skin the cat and each can provide accurate loaded ammo. I use a bushing neck die and body die set for my 20VT, FL die sets with plain old Redding neck dies for my 204R and 22-250 and now the Lee collet dies to complement my Redding FL .223AI and 6.5x55AI die sets. Use these in conjunction with the Hornady head space tool and only bump the shoulder when necessary and things should be good.
I guess the main thing I learned out of all of this is to pay very close attention to the amount you bump the shoulder when using a FL or body die. As we have shown here there is more than one way to skin the cat and each can provide accurate loaded ammo. I use a bushing neck die and body die set for my 20VT, FL die sets with plain old Redding neck dies for my 204R and 22-250 and now the Lee collet dies to complement my Redding FL .223AI and 6.5x55AI die sets. Use these in conjunction with the Hornady head space tool and only bump the shoulder when necessary and things should be good.
I will add one item to this discussion, since we are talking about shoulder bumping. You should always use the same shell holder that the die was set up with to bump shoulders. Just as toolbuilder made a mistake with his Redding comp shell holder set, you can get the same result by just switching regular shell holders sometimes. I have found as much as .020" difference in the height of shell holders. IMO, when you want to get into bumping shoulders, you need to measure, measure, and measure some more, until you are absolutely certain that you are getting a consistent result. Many variables affect bumping including consistency of brass & lubrication particularly. If you don't get everything working consistently, and to the exact dimension you want, you are probably doing more harm than good. These issues also apply to plain old FL sizing, too. I have had FL dies that were too long to bump the shoulder at all, and others that were short enough to bump shoulders back to an undesirable amount, when adjusting to touch the shell holder. Any more, I'm always lookin' and frequently measuring, trying to get myself to not assume anything. It is amazing the things you discover sometimes.
This is a very good thread with lots of good information. I would like to add something for those who shoot Remington 700 Rifles. When I check my brass for headspace, I not only pull the firing pin but I pull the ejector out of the bolt as well. I want my bolt to close easily but with NO movement back and forth with a case seated in the chamber. This is what I consider a perfectly sized case.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Joe,SmokinJoe said:
I think with the proper measuring equipment, dies set and locked and used on the same press with the same shell holder, and apply sizing wax by hand the same each time I don't see why you would have any problems, I at least don't using those methods. I do agree with you on keeping the shell holder you use with that set of dies and lube needs to be very consistently applied.
Wayne.
Wayne, we are one. Only difference is that I use Hornady One Shot for batches, but the Imperial Wax is probably the absolutely best. I get consistent results with the One Shot for normal sizing operations, and find it easier to work with. However, if I had heavy sizing or forming work to do, I would probably use the wax.
My goal with what I posted was to just give those less familiar with the pitfalls of bumping shoulders a heads-up or two. I hate to see people ruining good brass, or maybe even creating a dangerous situation just because they are ASSUMING (there's that really troublesome word) that their dies, shell holders, etc. are manufactured so that problems can't happen, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
My goal with what I posted was to just give those less familiar with the pitfalls of bumping shoulders a heads-up or two. I hate to see people ruining good brass, or maybe even creating a dangerous situation just because they are ASSUMING (there's that really troublesome word) that their dies, shell holders, etc. are manufactured so that problems can't happen, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
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