223

[pondsideshooter]

Hello,
Need some help on a rifle ...thinking about a cooper phoenix 223 or a 243 ....will be using in 100 and 200 yard local matches and varmint hunting.....thanks

 

[fdshuster]

pondsideshooter: Just one area to consider: barrel life. I know from personal experience with Douglas chrome-moly and Shilen stainless, the 243 barrel will require replacement at approx. 1400 rounds. They are "overbore" and have the 20 degree shoulder angle: both not condusive to long barrel life. An argument could be made that it is "too much gun" for 1 & 200 yds. Don't get me wrong, it is a good cartridge, for its intended purposes: mid to long range varmint & "deer hunting" with the heavier weight bullets. Started out w/ new Douglas & Shilen barrels, using mostly 75 gr. bullets,Sierra #1510) & moderate powder charges,, very accurate combo), group sizes began to open up between 8 & 900 rds., and copper fouling became more of a problem. At a documented 1400/1450 rds, both barrels were "gone". The 223 is a much more friendly round, and barrel life will average 3 times that of a 243. Long barrel life, very accurate with any quality ammo, reasonable cost, very light recoil, a huge choice of extreme quality bullets available, capable of 600 yd,F-Class matches) with heavy wt.bullets/fast twist barrels, excellent on varmints to any reasonable distance, etc. Over-all, my favorite 22 CF, as the 6BR is my favorite 6mm. Do I sound biased?

 

[7stwhunter]

Sence when did Sholder angle have anything to do with barrel life??

 

[fdshuster]

Article by Norm Johnson in "PrecisionShooting" magazine, approx. 5 yrs ago, published 2 months after I ordered my Shilen to replace the Douglas. Because of the shallow shoulder angle, a greater portion of the hot burning gases, and unburned powder particles are directed out of the confines of the brass case neck, into the throat area, directly in front of the chamber. Take a case dimension drawing for the 243, and using a straight-edge, project the shoulder angle out of the mouth of the case: it will extend a lot further out than it will with a 30 or greater angle, with which the inside of the brass case neck will "take the blowtorch effect", protecting the throat area of the barrel. A case with a longer neck will also provide more protection from erosion. I have, and use my "Hawkeye" borescope on regular basis, so while not having all the answers, am able to verify and watch barrels as they are destroyed, step-by-step. Correction on "5 yrs": I replaced the Douglas barrel in June of 2000, so P.S. article was in April or May issue.

 

[7stwhunter]

Sorry but im gonna have to pull the bs card on that one. Rifle loads are round there not flat last time i looked at them. If they where flat your point still probably wouldnt be feezable but it try to make more sence but sence there round all of the gases coming from a 360 degrees would cancel out all of the other gases and make them travel down the barrel straight.

And to answer the first question and the actual topic of the thread i would definatly go with the .223 very easy to reload, accurate, and theres alot of choice for good factory ammo if needed

 

[fdshuster]

It's the angle that does it/ directs the "blast" to the "outside" of the circumference, but, oh well, your mind is made up, believe whatever you like. Guess Norm Johnson does not know what he's talking about: I'll be looking for your next article published in "Precision Shooting". By the way, better activate your "spell-checker".

 

[SooStan]

Neck leanth and shoulder angle vs. barrel life have been talked about at our club a few times. I think there could be something to it.

 

[7stwhunter]

Speedy sure thinks its a load of shit

 

[ghermitage]

The 223 is a much more friendly round, and barrel life will average 3 times that of a 243. Long barrel life, very accurate with any quality ammo, reasonable cost, very light recoil, a huge choice of extreme quality bullets available, capable of 600 yd,F-Class matches) with heavy wt.bullets/fast twist barrels, excellent on varmints to any reasonable distance, etc. Over-all, my favorite 22 CF, as the 6BR is my favorite 6mm.

And for 20 cal, the 20 VarTarg?
What in 7mm? The 284W?

 

[fdshuster]

7stwhunter: I'm always open to other points-of-view, and I greatly respect the opinions of Speedy Gonzales. I'll go to work and research the P.S. article, and post my findings, or for that matter, could e-mail, or send the "old fashioned way". Can you point me in the right direction for Speedys' opinion? This may be one of those many areas, like barrel cleaning, moly bullets, etc, where we can agree to dis-agree.

 

[fdshuster]

ghermitage: Sorry, I don't understand your question. If you are referring to barrel life for the cartridges you mentioned, i have no experience with them. My only "sub-caliber" has been a recent build on a Sako L-46, with Hart 1-12 Varmint contour, in 204, to date, not a real good experience. At a documented 513 rds. fired, can see the beginnings of some serious fire-cracking in front of the chamber with the "Hawkeye". Still trying to find at least one consistantly accurate load, and have not been able to progress beyond 100 yds. If your question referred to the rounds you mentioned being used by pondsideshooter, he was questioning 223 vs. 243 at "short range"/ 1 & 200 yd.

 

[ghermitage]

fdshuster: I was suggesting that someone whose favorite in 6mm was 6mmBR and in 22 was 223 would favor the 20 VarTarg in 20 cal. After your 204 experiences, maybe this will become true.

 

[fdshuster]

ghermitage: check your P.M./fdshuster