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223 rem

I've heard alot of your advice to others for reloading, case forming, and cleaning.

The only guns i've heard you talk about owning are a NEF handi rifle in 500 s&w shooting cast bullets and now a mosin nagant.

Would you mind giving a in depth description of your "precision" rifles and a rundown of total deer harvested and your "trophy" deer on your wall????
 
Kenny, you say...

I have never lost a deer to a bad shot, only from using a caliber that wasn't sufficient for the size game I was hunting, so I have reasoning for not recommending a .223 for deer. Not that I have ever used a .223 on deer, as a .243 is the smallest I have ever used.


above you state that you did NOT recover a deer you shot with a .243 because that caliber is too small for a deer hunting cartridge.

after you had already said...

So as a last note, here are my suggestions: in the AR-15 .243 WSSM, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, .30 RemAR, 6mmAR, and possibly a 6X45. In the AR-10 .243, 6.5 Creedmore, .260, 7-08, and any similar round with comparable ballistics.

you are gonna have to stick to one or another here buddy, i can figer ot ta hilbily tlk her bt u i dnt gt.

so i guess since a .243 IS big enough and you lost a deer you shot with a .243, you must have made a poor decision and made an unethical shot placement on that deer.?.?
 
thanks for posting that fastnflat....i was going to post the very same thing but it required more effort than i was willing to spend on this ummm subject.
 
RockKnocker, understand your predicament. I'm blessed to live in a very rural and remote part of eastern NC. I'm surrounded by beans, corn, and wheat that covers about 350 acres. Actually I can shoot to 200 yards in my own yard, and out to 1,000 yds during this time of year when the crops are out of the field. Toughest thing here is getting a day when it doesn't blow a gale.

I'm located between two large rivers, one to my north about a mile and one to the south about two miles, and the wind just screams across these fields most of the time, but it's home and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Best wishes to you and Merry Christmas if we don't speak again this week.
 
I live nekst to the mississppi river i hav abowt 750 acres i can play on and i can shoot to 1300 yards the wind is basterd
 
Yeah Doubleup wind can be a pain in those open areas. I live in Minnesota and just got far away enough from the cities to have a close drive to some private land with a big chunk of public land next to it. But its hard to find 1000 yards to shoot around here, longest distance i can see would be pushing to get to 1000 yards and its across a little valley of land i dont have permission to be on then into the public land i cant recreationaly shoot in. But i put down the guns for hunting a couple years ago(unless its flying through the air, or i guess coyotes too) but i deer hunt exclusively with a bow now, cant beat it with a stick. And yes have a great Christmas also.
 
Dcryder, you obviously have not read many of my posts, as I have stated several times that I own a Savage actioned .222 bench rifle which will hold .25MOA or better depending on myself and conditions, as well as a couple other Savages and also have .22 and 6mm barrels that are awaiting reamers so I can chamber them in 22BR and 6BR. And along with my other H&R's, of which I have several, I also have a 6-.284 barrel for my H&R Ultra Varmint Fluted I had chambered from a .243 barrel.

As for the .243 shot I made that went south, I made a perfectly good shot through the lungs of the deer that ran off like nothing happened. Myself and several others tracked it for the rest of the day until it was dark, about 5 hours and covering several miles, at which point it had reached the edge of a very large swamp and we gave up for the night. We went back the next day, found where it entered the swamp, but could not follow the blood as it was far too wet. After circling the swamp looking for where the deer may have exited and having no luck, myself and my father walked in as far as we could with my uncle and cousin on the other side hoping to jump the deer and get it to run out or find it dead. No luck for the rest of the day. On the third day my cousin and myself went back with pistols and chest waders and went through the swamp basically zig-zagging through to cover as much ground as possible. After several hours of doing this, my cousin found the deer dead and bloated in a small dry area where it had bedded.

So in reality, I did find the deer, but it had been ruined as it was warmer than usual for November in NH and sat un-gutted for at least a day. I consider it a lost deer as it was wasted. But we did gut it, I tagged it and drug it out, and found a hole through both lungs and the spot where the bullet exited.

I truly feel that the .243 was the reason I did not recover the deer, as I have made many shots similar to that one and have never had a repeat of the incident. If the bullet had made a larger hole or the bullet had expanded more, the wound would have been much more deadly and I think would have stopped the animal much quicker. I was using factory Remington Core-Lokt ammo if I recall correctly.
I was also 16 (I believe) at the time of the incident as well, and I was honestly devastated by it. I am a very ethical and responsible hunter, and losing an animal really took an emotional toll on me. I also threw away my bow tag as well as my Maine tag and refused to hunt for the rest of the year, sold the rifle and went back to what I knew worked, either a 12ga slug, .50 cal muzzle loader or my 30-06.

The reason I recommend the .243 is that many others have had great success with it, contrary to my horrid incident, and it is seen by many as a great deer caliber. Better bullets are available more readily in factory ammo and will expand much more reliably, and many areas have much smaller deer than I do as well. I was against the .243 for a long time, but after listening to many stories of success with it from other members, I have begun to accept that it likely is a good choice in certain situations.

So just because I feel the .243 was inadequate when it failed on me, doesn't mean that it won't work in other situations. It has worked for many others, I just had an instance where it wasn't big enough to do the damage necessary to anchor a big, tough old New Hampshire whitetail. It's also worlds away in power from the .223, which is greatly lacking in my eyes when it comes to deer size game.

As for my trophy, it's a nice 8 pointer with a wide and very symmetrical rack that weighed in at 190lbs. I have shot bigger deer, and even a 10 pointer, but never anything with a rack as nice as this deer has. I believe it has an 18" spread and brow tines that are 6" long or better. He hangs on the wall at my camp, I will snap a picture next time I go up, which will likely be this weekend as I need to check on the place anyway.

As for a total, I am pretty sure the two this year made 19, though if you count my lost deer it's 20. I'm not bragging in any way, or trying to gloat either. I am just answering a question that you asked.

Think whatever you want. Nobody's perfect, but I don't take unethical shots on animals, period. Sh-- happens, and sometimes it happens to you. I am one of the most ethical and sporting hunters you will ever meet, and I pass more shots than I take by far, strictly because I don't EVER want to feel like I did when I watched that deer run off, EVER. That's the same reason I normally recommend much larger calibers than everyone else does, as I know what it feels like too watch a deer get hit hard, and then act like you missed and run away. I have been trying to accept the smaller stuff as "sufficient", hence my recommending it. It's still better than a .223.

Kenny
 
On the contrary, i have read WAY too many of your posts!

NEF.....precision rifle....really?

What exactly makes your Savage a "bench rifle"? does it have a custom barrel? does it have a 3" forearm? how far will it hold .25 moa for 5 shots? what bullets and dies do you use?
 
Im trying to stay out of this but...

There is no reason for sportsman to fight each other, there are plenty of anti hunters we should be arguing with. But at the same time there are some sportsman that do things that help out the antis battle. And not in just my oppinion but in, im pretty damn sure every single anti hunters oppinion. Shooting fawns in the head with an assault rifle isnt a good thing...

Its not about how much meat is in the freezer but for how long we can legaly have some meat in the freezer.

Im not going to fight with any sportsman, all im going to try to do is make sure they arent throwing fuel in the anti hunting fire.
 
Shooting fawns in the head with an assault rifle isnt a good thing...

I'm trying to figure out what an 'assault rifle' is. I looked up the words but it's not helping me much . . .

assault noun
1
a : a violent physical or verbal attack
b : a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces
c : a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)

rifle noun
1
a : a shoulder weapon with a rifled bore
b : a rifled artillery piece

I'll get back to you if I can piece it together.

Wayne
 
I'm not arguing with a sportsman. I'm arguing with a "keyboard kowboy" who just ripped someones a$$ for legally harvesting a deer. I think he has VERY little, if any, first hand experience with 99% of the things he says. The knowledge he has spewed all over this site in his 850+ posts in 8 months is all stuff he has read here or elsewhere. The "0" trade count reinforces my suspicions. You don't ever need any of the bullets, brass, dies, or scopes that pop up for sale here? Hmmm.

I really know that he needs to brush up on his biology cause all those spikes he says is OK to shoot are only a couple months older than the fawns that are only shot by pathetic and unethical hunters.

Rock Knocker, do you ever think about how the little pigs and cows we eat used to be (maybe still) killed? They werent shot through the ribs and chased 50 yards through the slaughterhouse. They were shot between the eyes. WHY?? Because it was more humane and no meat was lost. Does it matter if it is shot in the head with an AR15?? Would it be more acceptable to you if it was shot in the head with a Browning Gold Medallion??

I dont just talk the talk. I build my own guns on my own lathe, and build them for others. I put out 3 acres of food plots for deer. I only shoot deer that will score over 140" gross B&C which are usually 3-1/2 + years old. I'm in the process of thinning doe herd to better the buck/doe ratio and overall health. Why...because i'm a trophy hunter, i take pride in my work AND my play, and i have seen the benefits in the last few years. I have literally went from seeing 10 deer per rifle season (10 days) to 20 deer per day!!!

Not all people are trophy hunters. Here in KY we can get 1 buck and 2 does. If they shoot a 2" spike and 2 spotted fawns on land where they were permitted to hunt and tag them in then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Even if they shoot them in the head!!!!LOL

DaveBerg, all main events are now pay-per-view.

Send MO to me for $49.95.....add 3% for credit cards.
 
By assault rifle i meant the AR-15 you need a "permit to purchase handguns and assault weapons" to buy ( i just picked up a new permit at the police station after work today so i could join a local sportsmans club.)

And the whole age of killing deer i am not going to argue for a second, once again the sportsman vs. sportsman thing.

I am just pointing out what anti hunters look at. This summer i did some landscaping at a ladies house. When she over heard me talking about getting a hunting dog she went off into a long angy rant on how i should be hunted by the felons she works with (she was a nurse at a work house or something) and how she donates x% of her paycheck to PITA to fight people like me. Well guess what, after that long job she liked us so much she took my crew to a STEAK house, and spent $255 on us. During our meal we had some drinks and she started talking about the only meat she likes is on stirophoam and wraped in selafane... Thats the people we have to fight.


Once again as long as you eat what you kill im all for it, i may not do everything you do but its pointless to argue about it.
 
Actually it's PETA.

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

I'm a lot more worried about gun control freaks in Washington than PETA.

A permit for an AR15?!?! Wow, we can buy one here just as easily as we could buy a NEF handi rifle. We do have to have a permit to buy a suppressor or fully auto though.

Like I said, shoot them in the head, shoot them in the lungs, whatever. I DO NOT like when people parade around with a truck bed full of dead deer with the tailgate down especially in populated areas. Cover them up, when you get to your buddies house or favorite gunshop or where ever people are known to be into this stuff fine, show em off. This is what gives PETA the fuel they need. It's not necessary for a mother and young child on the way to a store to have to sit at a stoplight behind a truck with its tailgate down and a dead deer with its tongue hanging out staring at them and blood dripping off the bumper.
 
A permit for an AR15?!?! Wow, we can buy one here just as easily as we could buy a NEF handi rifle. We do have to have a permit to buy a suppressor or fully auto though.

This is Minnesota. We have two options for permits. One is just a permit to buy and it says right on it 'Permit to purchase a handgun or assault rifle' - or wording very close to that, I haven't had one for going on 5 years. The pinkos actually call it an assault rifle right on the permit.

The other option is a CCW permit. It allows you to conceal or openly carry a handgun. There are no restrictions on the handguns or types of ammo. You could carry an AR15 pistol openly if you were that type of person.

To be able to purchase an 'assault rifle' you need one of these permits.

I was ripping on the 'assault rifle' thing because it's Liberal Media and Nazi propaganda and it's bad enough when they use it let alone one of our own. I own 3 ARs right now - none of them have performed any assaults.

We're not allowed to have silencers in this state, to my knowledge.

Wayne
 
Nope no silencers in MN, i looked it up a couple weeks ago. I was amazed to find out how many states allowed them... we are like one of 15 states that it is banned, at least we arent Cali...
 
Guess he's not going to answer the bell.

Dave, hope you already sent MO...sorry no refunds....
 
And there he is in the background on the bigscreen sitting on the stool taking off the gloves saying "NO MAS"
 
15Tango said:
Sooo smart guy whats improper about it?

I've never hunted white tail but I've been watching this thread as it's opened up my mind to different opinions on the matter. I can see Kenny's point here. I'm all about harvesting a creature as humanely as possible and Kenny has some valid points on it. The other guys advocating headshots also have some valid points. If it's done right, lights out, which is as humane as it gets, no meat's wrecked and the meat in theory should be better with less adrenaline and lactic acid in it from running.

That being said, it's really poor form for you to come on a forum where - we at least try to be non-confrontational, on a first name basis for the most part and most of us try to offer genuine help to our comrades and - on your second (anonymous) post to the forum, try to pick some fight with a snide comment while calling names. That shit just doesn't belong here.

Wayne

Well sorry my anonymous low count post has offended you. My name is Craig Tomlin if that makes you feel any better. I a long time lurker and finally decided to join. Not trying to lock horns with anyone either but like dcryder has already said I also find Kenny474 very condescending and he rubs me the wrong way. I actually did some googling on this Kenny474 fellow and I doubt this 29yr old is what he says he is. He also likes to start problems on other sites. Go check out his list of posts on ammosmith.com where he has started several confrontations then trys to act innocent when being confronted.

Also notice confrontation here:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3756353.msg35904031.html#msg35904031
 

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