223 for whitetail?

[people]

If you are a slob a 243 is not enough. I have seen deer shot at less than 50 yds with a 30-06 and not go down and run hundreds of yds.

Put the bullets where they need to go you will not have a problem.

A person needs to know their limitations. Let's call a spade a spade most hunters could not shoot their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[BoilerUP]

Last two deer I've harvested were with .224 centerfires.

One a 223AI pushing 80gr A-Max at 2890fps at 60yd; shot entered just behind the left eye and everything on the right side from the inner eye to ear was missing above the jaw line. VERY spectacular performance, I could put my fist in the skull cavity.

This year was a 5.56 AR with a 77gr Nosler CC @ 2660fps at 70yd. Deer was head-down facing when shot; bullet entered center skull maybe an inch in and back from the right eye, and exited a couple inches below the left jaw in the neck. I could put my thumb in the exit wound, and I believe the bullet was sideways or close to it when it exited.

While CNS shots have been easy and effective, I'd have no qualms slipping either bullet into the heart/lungs of a trophy deer on the land that I hunt, using the same placement one would if bow hunting. Admittedly, a bonded bullet like the Nosler 64gr BSB or a Barnes TSX would be 'better' for these types of shots, but I was highly impressed with the 77gr Nosler.

It helps when the rifle you hunt with sees more than a "box o' shells" through it every four seasons...

 

[Greyfox]

I have hunted TN whitetail deer for the past 7 seasons with a 223 AI and an Encore chambered in 5.6x50 (think long 223). In both cartridges I have used 60gr Nosler Partitions and Speer 55gr Bonded Bearclaw bullets. I have killed deer as close as 20 yds and as far as 256 yds. The largest was a 210 lb buck killed at 55 yds. In one case, I watched a doe at 75 yds until she stopped, giving me a broadside neck shot. I was not paying attention to what was going on behind her. When I shot she went down in some high weeds, there seemed to be more commotion than one deer would cause. I reached the downed deer to finish here with a head shot and found that I had also shot a second doe that was lined up perfectly behind the first. Both deer were shot in almost the same location, center of the neck. The first doe was already dead and I finished the second, that was paralyzed, with a shot to the head.

With more than 30 kills using these cartridges and bullets, I have no lost a single deer. In fact, only one has traveled more than 5 yds. That deer was already headed down a very steep slope and mostly fell and
rolled about 25 yds from where she was shot. I doesn't take much to let the air out of a whitetail, but shot placement is critical no matter what you are shooting. Most of my shots are neck shots, but a few are head shots.

Having to use a blood trail to track just means you didn't put the bullet in the right place to begin with. It shouldn't be a trail, it should be a puddle right under the deer that dropped where you shot it. There is no downside to neck shots. They are always effective. If you can't hit a deer in the neck, you need to spend more time at the range before you go in the woods. Necks shots make clean kills, no lost deer, no ruined meat and a simple field dress. A 223 is plenty of cartridge. Yes, I'm opinionated, but that doesn't mean I'm not right.

Rick

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

A neck shot will kill...but, there is a LOT of the neck that can be hit and NOT kill the animal. Much like head shots...there's a lot of the head that can be hit and the animal will not die either, at least not where you will ever find it.

 

[Savage99]

These topics are sick that promote the shooting of big game with tiny bullets.

"Use Enough Gun"

 

[Greyfox]

A neck shot will kill...but, there is a LOT of the neck that can be hit and NOT kill the animal. Much like head shots...there's a lot of the head that can be hit and the animal will not die either, at least not where you will ever find it.

Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about. It's clear that you have never used neck shots and probably have no capability of such. You probably should only shoot at body mass.

Rick

 

[Greyfox]

These topics are sick that promote the shooting of big game with tiny bullets.

"Use Enough Gun"

/quote]

Karamojo Bell liked 7x57 Mausers for elephants. Do the math. A well placed .224 bullet is more than enough for the largest whitetail in North America. Operative phase is "well placed". Of course, if you can't hit an 8" kill zone it's probably best to use the largest bullet you can throw and hope you hit something vital.

Rick

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

A neck shot will kill...but, there is a LOT of the neck that can be hit and NOT kill the animal. Much like head shots...there's a lot of the head that can be hit and the animal will not die either, at least not where you will ever find it.

Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about. It's clear that you have never used neck shots and probably have no capability of such. You probably should only shoot at body mass.

Rick

Ohhh, we have a p@nis-measuring contest?? Where is my keyboard so that I can play?


It is very likely that I have culled more deer in urban settings than any 5 people you've ever met, including yourself. This doesn't include the ones I have killed all over the US when I worked as a sales rep for various shooting/hunting manufacturers.

Neither myself nor any of the other High Master-Distinguished-State NRA champions that I have culled deer with would ever consider taking neck shots...N O T. . .E V E R. The percentages for an quick, ethical kill are simply far too low.

Once again, and I can type slower if anyone would like, the neck is a very risky shot because only two small areas of the neck will kill...the spine and the arteries. Good luck finding them consistently and absolutely unerringly. Most people cannot except for the self-proclaimed anatomy experts that think they can. It makes one wonder how many deer dash off to suffer with a gaping hole through their neck and are never recovered....

Aim for the high percentage center thorax shot and respect your quarry.

Grant...out

 

[BoilerUP]

[quote author=Mr. Ten-X]
It is very likely that I have culled more deer in urban settings than any 5 people you've ever met, including yourself.[/quote]

Not necessarily pertinent to the discussion of neck shots...

In all that urban culling you did, were the shots you took placed in heart/lung or head?

What caliber rifle did you use in those urban environments?

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

NEVER in the head...always dead center in the brain and there is a difference.

.223Rem, .22WRM and 22LR, all suppressed.

Sometimes you would get longer opportunities in parks, golf course, airports, nurseries, etc using the .223 and we would take center lung shots on dead broadside deer. 50-55gr V-Max. They would go anywhere from DRT to 40yds. Easy recoveries.

 

[Greyfox]

Once again, and I can type slower if anyone would like, the neck is a very risky shot because only two small areas of the neck will kill...the spine and the arteries. Good luck finding them consistently and absolutely unerringly. Most people cannot except for the self-proclaimed anatomy experts that think they can. It makes one wonder how many deer dash off to suffer with a gaping hole through their neck and are never recovered....

Aim for the high percentage center thorax shot and respect your quarry.

Grant...out
[/quote]

It's clear from what you write that you have no idea what you are talking about. The neck is by far the least "risky" shot that can be taken and virtually any shot near the center of the neck will result in a down deer. A "center thorax" shot will frequently result in a deer that travels a considerable distance even when the heart and lungs are destroyed, been there, done that with the popular large caliber bullets. When a deer is shot in the neck, you go to where it was standing and look down.

Rick

 

[BoilerUP]

NEVER in the head...always dead center in the brain and there is a difference.

Yes, I suppose there is a difference...even though there really shouldn't be for anybody attempting such a shot.

 

[Greyfox]

NEVER in the head...always dead center in the brain and there is a difference.

.223Rem, .22WRM and 22LR, all suppressed.

Sometimes you would get longer opportunities in parks, golf course, airports, nurseries, etc using the .223 and we would take center lung shots on dead broadside deer. 50-55gr V-Max. They would go anywhere from DRT to 40yds. Easy recoveries.

I really must be missing something here. First you tell us that one should never take a neck shot because they are just too high risk and then you tell us that you are taking"brain" shots with a 22LR. Riiiight. : Now I know what I'm dealing with here.

Rick

 

[dan06]

I helped a friend recover 100 lb a deer shot through the neck with a .308win. The bullet almost severed the wind pipe.......(Isn't that in the neck) and we tracked the deer for a few miles and part of 2 days on snow before we caught up with the deer it was still alive. Breathing through the hole under his chin. I guess. If you break their spine or disrupt the spinal cord they will for sure go down. If you don't they may not. The spine in a deers neck is about 11/2 inches wide and maybe 1 foot long. I'm not a good enough shot so that I would think that would be the best place to shoot at if a deer will give you some other option.

 

[Valar]

It doesnt matter what I think in Ill. 22 cal is not legal for deer. My Opinion is my 204 ruger would drop a deer from shock as fast as almost anything. I have seen the puddin it makes out of a coyote. As caliber declines I do feel shot placement becomes more inportant. I just built a 6.5 Grendel and feel it will be ideal for deer sized game. We shall see

 

[WindSurgeon]

It will do the job so long as you put that bullet in the boiler room. Choose a heavier hunting bullet that is not a "varmint" bullet. Some of the varmint bullets are designed to fragment on impact (explode) and may not get you enough penetration especially if you hit bone.

 

[kyreloader]

Greyfox,

Do you know anything about professional culling?

From your replies, it sounds like not.

 

[Greyfox]

Greyfox,

Do you know anything about professional culling?

From your replies, it sounds like not.

Yes, I do.

Rick

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

NEVER in the head...always dead center in the brain and there is a difference.

.223Rem, .22WRM and 22LR, all suppressed.

Sometimes you would get longer opportunities in parks, golf course, airports, nurseries, etc using the .223 and we would take center lung shots on dead broadside deer. 50-55gr V-Max. They would go anywhere from DRT to 40yds. Easy recoveries.

I really must be missing something here. First you tell us that one should never take a neck shot because they are just too high risk and then you tell us that you are taking"brain" shots with a 22LR. Riiiight. : Now I know what I'm dealing with here.

Rick

For those lacking in knowledge...

1) We shoot at STATIONARY TARGETS ON BAIT at a distance of 15-25yds max. This is totally unlike a hunting situation and is nothing like what most might imagine if all they have done is hunted deer.

2) The brain is easy to pick out in a small target area (the rear of the skull). Look at enough photos and skeletal images...you'll figure it out.

3) When I use an AWC integrally suppressed rifle using CCI Mini-Mag solids @ 930fps (which will go straight through a 2x4 at 100yds...every single time), I simply wait for the dead broadside shot or when the deer is facing me, directly through the top of the skull. There is no rush...I have all the time in the world to pick my shot. The lead bullet goes in and generally will not exit unless it is a small juvenile. One thing it will do every single time, without the slightest hint of doubt, is drop them like a toilet lid.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

The times I have used the .223 Rem with 50-55gr V-Max, it completely empties the cranial cavity. They cease to exist in a nanosecond. Those that are shot using the dead-broadside, double-pneumothorax hit, have never gone further than 40yds. Everything forward of the diaphragm is liquified goo.

However, I do NOT suggest this bullet due to the many variances of actual deer hunting. It is for culling and no other purpose regarding deer.