My feeling is you should never hunt deer with a gun with A less caliber the you would hunt a wounded Bear. He deserves to be killed as fast as possible. All this talk about a 223 is total nonsense. Yes they will kill if you hit in the right place. They would do the same to a cape buff. Try telling a guide your going to hunt BUFF with 223. Hunting is taking a animal as fast as you can with out them suffering. Larry
223 for whitetail?
- Thread starter mao0720
- Start date
I formed an opinion on this subject more than 30 years ago. I was in a LGS and the owner wanted me to second his recommendation to a customer that a Ruger Mini 14 would make a fine deer rifle. I couldn't agree then or now. There are more appropriate bullets today than there were then but a .223 still can't be classified as a fine cartridge for whitetail deer hunting.
How many people who are arguing that a .223 is not ok for whitetail deer have actually killed a whitetail deer with one?
savagedasher said:
Cape Buffalo?
As mentioned above "bring enough gun". Whitetail deer?
Deer aren't equipped with SAPI plates or blessed with a wild boar's thick tissue/muscles/bones. They're really not hard to kill quickly and ethically with most any diameter/weight bullet placed into the central nervous system or vital organs.
I picture a caveman telling another caveman that his flint broadhead is not enough to bring down a stag, that he really needs to "use enough spear" because somehow game can be killed "more dead"?
kyreloader said:
I'd bet precious few.
Thing is, a 22 centerfire IS a marginal caliber for deer. It is more than sufficient to do the job and in fact does it very well, but one has to have the discipline to pass on marginal shots and my experience is the overwhelming majority of hunters do not have that discipline.
Frankly, I view my 223AI & 5.56 as a longer range, ever-so-slightly more capable bow.
ballistic64
Silver $$ Contributor
Ive used a 223 deer hunting in timber with 55gr hornady spire points on numerous occasions. Never had a problem and never had to search for a shot deer.
I have killed probably more deer with 22 rim fire, then you will kill in a life time. And I have tried to find 50 or more that was shot with a 243 or bigger. So don't try to make out a 223 is a good deer caliber. 80% of the hunters a 300 win mag isn't enough. A bow in good hands is far better then a 223 is .A deer will go less distance shot with a double lung then it will with a 243.BoilerUP said:
Larry
ballistic64
Silver $$ Contributor
.A deer will go less distance shot with a double lung then it will with a 243.
Larry
[/quote]
Hypothetical BS
Larry
[/quote]
Hypothetical BS
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
I have killed probably more deer with 22 rim fire, then you will kill in a life time. And I have tried to find 50 or more that was shot with a 243 or bigger. So don't try to make out a 223 is a good deer caliber. 80% of the hunters a 300 win mag isn't enough. A bow in good hands is far better then a 223 is .A deer will go less distance shot with a double lung then it will with a 243.
Larry
Gotta love 223 whitetail discussions. I'm having a really hard time following your theories Larry. You say that you have killed more deer with a 22 rimfire, than someone else will kill in a lifetime, then you say that a person is under gunned with a .223 center fire. Makes absolutely no sense. I'm curious where it is legal to brainbox deer with a .22 rimfire? I've shot a pile of deer with .223's and .243's. Deer are not Rhinos. I've also killed a few deer with a bow. Bow range for me is limited to 50 yards and down. I've had to blood trail probably a third of my bow shot deer. I see no comparison between a bow and either a .223 or .243 in most situations. Perhaps I'm like the kid in the TV ad that "just don't get it"?
Larry
Gotta love 223 whitetail discussions. I'm having a really hard time following your theories Larry. You say that you have killed more deer with a 22 rimfire, than someone else will kill in a lifetime, then you say that a person is under gunned with a .223 center fire. Makes absolutely no sense. I'm curious where it is legal to brainbox deer with a .22 rimfire? I've shot a pile of deer with .223's and .243's. Deer are not Rhinos. I've also killed a few deer with a bow. Bow range for me is limited to 50 yards and down. I've had to blood trail probably a third of my bow shot deer. I see no comparison between a bow and either a .223 or .243 in most situations. Perhaps I'm like the kid in the TV ad that "just don't get it"?
We had a deformation permit So it was dam sure legal. In reference to IBS I didn't say the Word TYPE to start with. We are in the process of improving our range to where we can hold registered shoot. 14 to 16 tables at 1000 YD and over 20 at 600 YD. If I have any say they won't be IBS shoot . Your attitude made that decision for me. Don't accuse someone of doing something illegal till you know the facts . LarryLHSmith said:
We had crop damage permits. I hit spell check and never checked it. When our range is done It most likely will be NRA or NBRSA Our 1000 yd will be the same as Penn.1000yd rules. If they give us their blessing .We hope too have a affiliation with them. LarryLHSmith said:
These threads are always hilarious.
The group of people saying "ITS NOT ETHICAL!" who have never actually tried it, sprinkled in with anecdotes of lost deer from all different calibers, and the group that says "Yeah we've done it, its plenty of gun, but you have to pick your shots and use the right bullet."
Me? I'll take somebody with a mouse gun that is proficient enough to put the bullet where it needs to go as opposed to a Fudd that shoots "one box o' shells" through their hunting rifle every 4-5 years.
My last two deer have been just as dead as if I'd shot them with my 260 - seems plenty capable and ethical to me.
The group of people saying "ITS NOT ETHICAL!" who have never actually tried it, sprinkled in with anecdotes of lost deer from all different calibers, and the group that says "Yeah we've done it, its plenty of gun, but you have to pick your shots and use the right bullet."
Me? I'll take somebody with a mouse gun that is proficient enough to put the bullet where it needs to go as opposed to a Fudd that shoots "one box o' shells" through their hunting rifle every 4-5 years.
My last two deer have been just as dead as if I'd shot them with my 260 - seems plenty capable and ethical to me.
BoilerUP said:
+1
BU,
I don't know why I get involved in this stuff because it always generates more heat than light. The fact is, many states as well as Winchester agree that the .223 is just fine for whitetails. It seems that there is nothing you can say or show to people who are already convinced that what they think is the only way. I guess it's like religion. Shot placement is the important thing no matter what caliber someone chooses. If a person can't hit a 3" spot on a deer with regularity, they probably need to spend more time at the range anyway. That should start some more stuff.
Rick
Greyfox said:BoilerUP said:
+1
BU,
I don't know why I get involved in this stuff because it always generates more heat than light. The fact is, many states as well as Winchester agree that the .223 is just fine for whitetails. It seems that there is nothing you can say or show to people who are already convinced that what they think is the only way. I guess it's like religion. Shot placement is the important thing no matter what caliber someone chooses. If a person can't hit a 3" spot on a deer with regularity, they probably need to spend more time at the range anyway. That should start some more stuff.
Rick
There is no substitute for experience and marksmanship.
There is hard science behind ballistics and bullet craftsmanship now and as much as I love folklore, oral history and tradition so much of what is repeated about lethal ballistics is outdated and wrong.
A 223 with a good bullet will kill very effectively and impressively.
I have had the misfortune of living in an area overpopulated with deer and trying to grow a crop.
I started with 308, then 6.5x55 and now I'm quite happy with my 223AI.
Another local farmer swears by his 17HMR.
My stride isn't wide enough for a pair like his but I'm sure it works.
I go on final record saying again shot placement. Would I hunt with my 204 or 22-250 or 243? I might if legal but I know, I and I stress I would not take a risky shot! The majority of hunters sorry to say will pot shot anything for a kill! Or a wound. This is why many states have limitations. Not all hunters are discriminating hunters! I will not take a shot if I do ot feel 100 percent that I will drop the animal. However, I do not feel I am a Majority! This is where the argument comes in and ends. Some hunters are full well capable of harvesting animals with a 22 rimfire. I ask you that have, do you honestly think all hunters are? Not only no but ---- NO End of story in my book
Finally found a thread to use this! ;D
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